Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[noob]

If I speak....

Actually I will speak. Ayuso was given a 'bad guy' reputation when Pogi diehards decided anything less than total fealty to his lordship Pogi the magnificent was unacceptable.

I'm totally ambivalent on the question because let's face facts here i.e. who are we kidding? Pog hardly needed his help.

I'm still gonna say Broe is the one who got Ayuso this reputation. Years before tdf 2024 by saying Ayuso refuses to ride for anyone and just how much he loves Ayuso for it. But now even he said it would look better if Ayuso stayed as a domestique for Del Toro bc his reputation is absolutely horrible right now. Ayuso is but a kid. I feel bad for him for sure.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Over-analysis of a minor incident by weird parasocial fans, nothing new.

However it was quite funny when he got dropped, sorry.

 

[noob]

Over-analysis of a minor incident by weird parasocial fans, nothing new.

However it was quite funny when he got dropped.

If you call Broe a parasocial fan yes, but he's a DS of Visma

 

[Red Rick]

If I speak....

Actually I will speak. Ayuso was given a 'bad guy' reputation when Pogi diehards decided anything less than total fealty to his lordship Pogi the magnificent was unacceptable.

I'm totally ambivalent on the question because let's face facts here i.e. who are we kidding? Pog hardly needed his help.

Literally most of it was speculation based on nothing, then Mou happened.

All that happened on the road was like 1 case of not pulling when he was at the back of the group and Almeida is creating drama.

 

[Tim Cahill]

If you call Broe a parasocial fan yes, but he's a DS of Visma

It wasn't because of Patrick, you have to understand 90% of the time he's just taking the piss. A lot of Australian cricket fans have a specific sense of humour based on smack talk, they aren't serious and neither is he, you just have to give it back to them. Ayuso hate comes from other quarters.

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah, this was his penance, his offence wasn't worse. And obviously he is riding injured so chapeau to at least trying. Inclusion of mini Strade Bianche unfortunately decimated the GC field this year, to oblivion. Half a year of preparation down the drain for many GC riders, before it even started.

They should have preped better for the mini SB stage.

 

[bNator]

If I speak....

Actually I will speak. Ayuso was given a 'bad guy' reputation when Pogi diehards decided anything less than total fealty to his lordship Pogi the magnificent was unacceptable.

I'm totally ambivalent on the question because let's face facts here i.e. who are we kidding? Pog hardly needed his help.

In retrospect maybe. But at the time, it was very much going to be another epic battle with Vinge, the one Pog lost two consecutive times. Until stage 14, the Tour still seemed very open with Vingegaard just arriving to his supposedly favourable terrain…

 

[CyclistAbi]

They should have preped better for the mini SB stage.

You can't, that is on why it is there for, more or less a guarantee to affect GC, on top of that it's not like UAE wasn't lucky with del Toro.

 

[AmRacer]

You can't, that is on why it is there for, more or less a guarantee to affect GC, on top of that it's not like UAE wasn't lucky with del Toro.

Could've raced SB

 

[Cycling111]

I'm still gonna say Broe is the one who got Ayuso this reputation. Years before tdf 2024 by saying Ayuso refuses to ride for anyone and just how much he loves Ayuso for it. But now even he said it would look better if Ayuso stayed as a domestique for Del Toro bc his reputation is absolutely horrible right now. Ayuso is but a kid. I feel bad for him for sure.

Let's not forget that Broe works for Visma, and before joining its staff.
They have been collaborating with them since 2022.

I feel like they used Ayuso to try to discredit Pogacar.

I remember one of their collaborators saying throughout 2023 that Ayuso should be the leader in 2024 and Pogacar his domestique. Taking out supposed watts to ensure that Ayuso was going to be better in the Tour.

I find it curious that they're criticizing Pogacar's followers here and, on the other hand, praising those in LR who have interests with Visma.
It's clear they've tried to use this to destabilize Pogacar, who is Vingegaard's real rival, not Ayuso.

If I speak....

Actually I will speak. Ayuso was given a 'bad guy' reputation when Pogi diehards decided anything less than total fealty to his lordship Pogi the magnificent was unacceptable.

I'm totally ambivalent on the question because let's face facts here i.e. who are we kidding? Pog hardly needed his help.

The big difference is that the Pogacar fans, whom some criticize so much, have no real interests; Broe does have them with Visma, which I find ethically much worse. The rest are fanatical opinions, but we're talking about workers here.

What would you think if a UAE manager or collaborator had been saying that Roglic should be Vingegaard's domestique and using that rivalry to claim that the bad guy isn't Vingegaard, but Rogic it´s a bullye?

That's basically what they've done with the Ayuso-Pogacar situation. They're trying to say how bad Pogacar was, that Ayuso should have been a co-leader, but Ayuso was not because of Pogacar...
That's what happened. Having interests with a team, they've been sowing discord between two riders from another team. They're not fans; they're Visma collaborators.

That's what's worrying, not what anonymous fanatics say.

 

[Lequack]

Stagnation or no stagnation, he has had impressively bad luck in his GTs. Covid in the 2022 Vuelta, completely messed up season hindering him in the 2023 Vuelta, Covid again in last year's Tour and now a knee injury. That's four from four GTs where he has been prevented from performing at 100%. If he was more likeable (and preferably not on UAE) it would have made him a Landa-esque popular underdog.

Is he turning into Roglic?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Could've raced SB

Pogi did it and did crashed. So in the end it doesn't make much difference, the purpose of such stage is clear, shuffle GC, by mechanicals, punctures, crashes and injuries. Skill in term of a GT peloton going over it IMHO plays a negligible role. Luck is by far the biggest factor, on where we are talking about GT peloton. As some fans praise on how it should be included in GTs due to riders showing skills, on how complete riders they are. Now we see that, two of main GT favourites already out, before it even started.

This really is good for GT racing, such skill. I am sure that this Giro edition profited massively from it.

 

[AmRacer]

Pogi did it and did crashed. So in the end it doesn't make much difference, the purpose of such stage is clear, shuffle GC, by mechanicals, punctures, crashes and injuries. Skill in term of a GT peloton going over it IMHO plays a negligible role. Luck is by far the biggest factor, on where we are talking about GT peloton. As some fans praise on how it should be included in GTs due to riders showing skills, on how complete riders they are. Now we see that, two of main GT favourites already out, before it even started.

This really is good for GT racing, such skill. I am sure that this Giro edition profited massively from it.

Pogi crashed and won. Landa crashed on a normal stage.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Pogi crashed and won. Landa crashed on a normal stage.

Yeah, Pogi crashed, superior riding skills and positioning, lots of training and race experience ... So you see it doesn't matter in the end. That is on why it's there for.

As for this GT, the stage took out and injured two pre-race favourites. In my book and in comparison to other sports that instantly demotes relevance of such sporting event to garbage. On why GT organisers sell a perfectly good GT event, for one day freak show, beats me. I personally wouldn't do it. Integrity of a GT race would always take priority, just like i wouldn't include hurdles in the marathon, it's just whacked.

Indeed Landa crashed on a normal stage. Giro and this sport specifically is plagued with athlete injuries already, bad image on the sport, hence i find it even harder to understand, on why one would do it intentionally. It's bad as it is, without help.

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah, Pogi crashed, superior riding skills and positioning, lots of training and race experience ... So you see it doesn't matter in the end. That is on why it's there for.

As for this GT, the stage took out and injured two pre-race favourites. In my book and in comparison to other sports that instantly demotes relevance of such sporting event to garbage. On why GT organisers sell a perfectly good GT event, for one day freak show, beats me. I personally wouldn't do it. Integrity of a GT race would always take priority, just like i wouldn't include hurdles in the marathon, it's just whacked.

Indeed Landa crashed on a normal stage. Giro and this sport specifically is plagued with athlete injuries already, bad image on the sport, hence i find it even harder to understand, on why one would do it intentionally. It's bad as it is, without help.

Lots of crashes today too.
Superior riding skills make you win races.

 

[yaco]

The pertinent question is what team will Ayuso ride for in 2026? If we are to believe the rumours about team disharmony combined with the growth of Del Toro and Almeida this leaves little for Ayuso.

 

[carolina]

I felt he was ready this year to win his first GT, this Giro was a good opportunity. Still believe he will get one.

Was he planned for the Vuelta? Otherwise another year with bad luck in his GT.

Almeida (and Pogacar?) are planned for the Vuelta.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lots of crashes today too.

Yeah, a crash fest. So adding even more, with intention, whacked.

Superior riding skills make you win races.

Does it, or is this some sort of meme? Or better, Roglič is by this definition a rider with superior riding skills? Why did he crashed then, on a mini SB, with most of other GC favourites crashing too. Why did Pogi crash on the real SB? It doesn't really add up, does it? How can Rogla, Pogi, Ayuso and most of GC favourites on this Giro edition be considered as riders with poor skills, considering they win so much. This sport really is unique in this regards.

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah, a crash fest. So adding even more, with intention, whacked.



Does it, or is this some sort of meme? Or better, Roglič is by this definition a rider with superior riding skills? Why did he crashed then, on a mini SB, with most of other GC favourites crashing too. Why did Pogi crash on the real SB? It doesn't really add up, does it? How can Rogla, Pogi, Ayuso and most of GC favourites on this Giro edition be considered as riders with poor skills, considering they win so much. This sport really is unique in this regards.

Roglic isn't a rider with superior bike handling skills.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic isn't a rider with superior bike handling skills.

I see. Who would you put ahead in terms of stage racing? Del Toro?

 

[AmRacer]

I see. Who would you put ahead in terms of stage racing? Del Toro?

What has stage racing to do with bike handling skills?

 

[Sciatic]

What has stage racing to do with bike handling skills?

I would say it’s more specifically bike-stability and proximity awareness, which are a part of bike handling separate from cornering and bunny hops.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What has stage racing to do with bike handling skills?

Here you lost me.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@AmRacer

No need to drag this further, there was enough contradictions involved already, so i assume you are just making them up as you go. For example:

Superior riding skills make you win races.

Roglic isn't a rider with superior bike handling skills.

Primož Roglič

Primož RogliÄ (born 1989-10-29 in Trbovlje) is a professional road racing cyclist from Slovenia, currently riding for Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe. His best results are 4 wins in GC Vuelta a España and 15 stage wins in Vuelta a España.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

No need to drag this further, there was enough contradictions involved already, so i assume you are just making them up as you go. For example:

Primož Roglič

Primož RogliÄ (born 1989-10-29 in Trbovlje) is a professional road racing cyclist from Slovenia, currently riding for Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe. His best results are 4 wins in GC Vuelta a España and 15 stage wins in Vuelta a España.

www.procyclingstats.com

Nope, you are making things up and contracting yourself.