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stekelegel

stekelegel

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pman said:
For sure, Vingegaard in his current form could totally win the Tour with that team. I guess we never know the public and private version of someone. Public Remco seems to want leadership and to go for the biggest races in the world including the Tour. Maybe behind close doors he's a Type B person who is just happy to be part of the team. I doubt it though. I think Remco is very confident in his abilities.
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I am not so sure he would. 2022 tour saw a Pogacar who had ridden a lot more in the first part of the season, lost his team and was hijacked by a roglic vingeaard combine. 2023 there was the fall in LBL. I think a 2021 Pogacar could run him a lot closer, take away the team and Pogacar gains the small edge he needs.

Another twist today and again it got proven that all this is just about where remco is next year.
If he goes to Jumbo, with Soudal and his domestiques, it is good old patrick taking care of the rest of his flock and keeping the team afloat by again doing a round with his circle of trusted friends/sponsors....

Or might it just be that they realised the cost of folding QS is huge and are now just selling the team (wich they can) to some new investors....? Take the juicy bits with them to JV, make some money of the leftovers and have the audacity to call this a charity operation????
 
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stekelegel said:
I am not so sure he would. 2022 tour saw a Pogacar who had ridden a lot more in the first part of the season, lost his team and was hijacked by a roglic vingeaard combine. 2023 there was the fall in LBL. I think a 2021 Pogacar could run him a lot closer, take away the team and Pogacar gains the small edge he needs.

Another twist today and again it got proven that all this is just about where remco is next year.
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His spring program wasn't overwhelming in 2022. UAE Tour, Strade, Tirreno-Adriatico, Sanremo, Dwaars, Ronde, Fleche Wallone and Tour of Slovenia.
 
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VeloMaster

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pman said:
I base this on the fact this whole drama seems to have developed from the fact that Remco seems unsupported by Quickstep. Clearly his team is strong enough to win classics and Giros. The only thing they aren't strong enough to do is win the Tour de France. If Remco was cool with winning lesser Grand Tours and classics, the whole Remco to Ineos talk and the complaints about his support never would have happened.

I know the Jonas VIngegaard Fan Club wants to imagine Remco being thrilled playing second fiddle to Jonas for the next 6 years but I personally don't see that as a likely outcome. If Remco goes to the new super team it isn't to be a supporting actor to anyone.
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Yes, you are right in the essentials-- this is driven by Remco's demand to have Tdf-quality domestiques. and support -- and by rich and powerful interests that want to be part of that.

At the risk of repeating what I have said here and elsewhere, the 800-pound gorillia in the room remains: Remco has not shown me (and many others here) that he can win the Tour; certainly this season did nothing to dispel those doubts.
 
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Bonimenier

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VeloMaster said:
Yes, you are right in the essentials-- this is driven by Remco's demand to have Tdf-quality domestiques. and support -- and by rich and powerful interests that want to be part of that.

At the risk of repeating what I have said here and elsewhere, the 800-pound gorillia in the room remains: Remco has not shown me (and many others here) that he can win the Tour; certainly this season did nothing to dispel those doubts.
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Remco must be the first rider in history winning a GT at 22 to have absolutely no chance to ever win the Tour.
 
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pman

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VeloMaster said:
Yes, you are right in the essentials-- this is driven by Remco's demand to have Tdf-quality domestiques. and support -- and by rich and powerful interests that want to be part of that.

At the risk of repeating what I have said here and elsewhere, the 800-pound gorillia in the room remains: Remco has not shown me (and many others here) that he can win the Tour; certainly this season did nothing to dispel those doubts.
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I agree that he hasn't shown an ability to win the Tour against someone like Vingegaard but my point is, that doesn't matter. What matters is that Remco thinks he can win the Tour. As long as he thinks he can win the Tour, either it makes no sense for him to go to Visma-Soudal- Amazon or he's going because he thinks he's good enough to lead the team and pass Vingegaard. Now that might seem comical but the reality is, if Remco believes that to be true, there's going to be issues in paradise because if Roglic and Vingegaard had issues, good luck with Remco and Vingegaard.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

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pman said:
I base this on the fact this whole drama seems to have developed from the fact that Remco seems unsupported by Quickstep. Clearly his team is strong enough to win classics and Giros. The only thing they aren't strong enough to do is win the Tour de France. If Remco was cool with winning lesser Grand Tours and classics, the whole Remco to Ineos talk and the complaints about his support never would have happened.

I know the Jonas VIngegaard Fan Club wants to imagine Remco being thrilled playing second fiddle to Jonas for the next 6 years but I personally don't see that as a likely outcome. If Remco goes to the new super team it isn't to be a supporting actor to anyone.
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I don't believve that for a second.
Evenepoel has another 3 years left on his SQ contract, and Lefevre is not someone you push around, no matter how "unhappy" a riders dad says he is.

As for playing second fiddle, JV already proved at the Vuelta if you are strong enough you get to win.
 
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red_flanders

red_flanders

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hrotha said:
Interesting that "being a character" in this kind of conversation never seems to mean "being a genuinely nice person with an alluring personality". It's always just a more acceptable way to say you like a-holes

Also "a generation looking for offece" lol
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I think that applies in a lot of cases and I don't like that way of excusing a-holes either. Known far too many who use that crutch in my personal life.

I don't think it applies here. Being a character means having a personality that jumps out. Can be an a-hole, can be just fun, can be quirky. I don't think he's an a-hole at all. I think he's a warm guy who has strong opinions and garners strong reactions from those close to him, mostly very positive. I think some people take offense at stuff he says that's just...facts.

And yeah. There is a generational component to offense taking. It ain't exclusive, but it sure is more common the younger one seems to get. You may not like it, but there really isn't any denying it.
 
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Big Doopie

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VeloMaster said:
Yes, you are right in the essentials-- this is driven by Remco's demand to have Tdf-quality domestiques. and support -- and by rich and powerful interests that want to be part of that.

At the risk of repeating what I have said here and elsewhere, the 800-pound gorillia in the room remains: Remco has not shown me (and many others here) that he can win the Tour; certainly this season did nothing to dispel those doubts.
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You r so right. The season didn’t. Covid did.

Imagine Rog, Pog or Vingo having to abandon sick while wearing the leaders jersey. Lol. There would be an asterisk next to the eventual winner’s name. And in no way would any of them be diminished in stature. But when Remco has that bad luck, well… forumites suffering from RDS literally have an orgasm.
 
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veganrob

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Big Doopie said:
You r so right. The season didn’t. Covid did.

Imagine Rog, Pog or Vingo having to abandon sick while wearing the leaders jersey. Lol. There would be an asterisk next to the eventual winner’s name. And in no way would any of them be diminished in stature. But when Remco has that bad luck, well… forumites suffering from RDS literally have an orgasm.
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Difference being Pog and Vingo have each won two TdF and Rog multiple GT's. Remco one unimpressive Vuelta
 
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pman

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Boehmand said:
As for playing second fiddle, JV already proved at the Vuelta if you are strong enough you get to win.
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The Tour is not the Vuelta. Vingegaard the introvert does not strike me as someone who would be fine with bold, extroverted Remco challenging him at the Tour from within his own team. It seems like it has a ton of potential to be a very bad situation. I can't be the only one who sees the two do not have personalities that will blend well together, especially in a competitive environment.
 
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pman

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Plus take what we know about the rumored 2024 Tour route. Those Italian stages have Remco's name on them. Maybe Vingegaard destroys Remco (and the field frankly) on stage 4 to Valloire. But what if Remco is on a great day then and doesn't lose more than 20-30 seconds. Then Remco gets a 30 - 90 second lead on Vingegaard in the rumored first time trial going into the first rest stage. What happens then? If you think the Vuelta was bad, just imagine the scenario I outlined. I don't see how it works unless this is just about money.
 
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houtdffan

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pman said:
Plus take what we know about the rumored 2024 Tour route. Those Italian stages have Remco's name on them. Maybe Vingegaard destroys Remco (and the field frankly) on stage 4 to Valloire. But what if Remco is on a great day then and doesn't lose more than 20-30 seconds. Then Remco gets a 30 - 90 second lead on Vingegaard in the rumored first time trial going into the first rest stage. What happens then? If you think the Vuelta was bad, just imagine the scenario I outlined. I don't see how it works unless this is just about money.
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see the rumored Giro route.

I cannot see Remco skipping that with 2 35-40km ITT, no matter which team he rides on. He'd be at the tour with a giro in his legs
 
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pman

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see the rumored Giro route.
houtdffan said:
I cannot see Remco skipping that with 2 35-40km ITT, no matter which team he rides on. He'd be at the tour with a giro in his legs
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Again, you're talking about Remco like he doesn't think he's ready to compete and win the Tour de France. The Giro could have 21 Individual Time Trials and if the Tour has two, including one decent sized flat one the Remco we all know from the press will want to go to the Tour de France. He seems done missing the world's biggest race. Maybe I am wrong but we shall see.
 
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dennisdy

dennisdy

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pman said:
The Tour is not the Vuelta. Vingegaard the introvert does not strike me as someone who would be fine with bold, extroverted Remco challenging him at the Tour from within his own team. It seems like it has a ton of potential to be a very bad situation. I can't be the only one who sees the two do not have personalities that will blend well together, especially in a competitive environment.
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I agree. Two things will ensure that Remco races for Ineos next year: 1. Remco doesn't want to go from the leader of a team to a lieutenant. He will always be in the Roglic slot during the Tour. In fact, he won't even rate that high because Roglic was the patron of JV. 2. He will be able to sign a HUGE contract with Ineos and get paid on the same level as Pogacar, Roglic, and Vingegaard (maybe even more than Vingegaard). Show him the Euros!
 
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pastronef

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if Ineos wants Remco there's probably the personal Specialized deal he signed this year to be taken care of. Pinarello has an Ineos contract until 2025 (well, like Lotto broke Ridley's contract to go with Orbea, Ineos could break Pinarello's deal) it's a shame if it happens after 14 years and all the work Pinarello and SkIneos engineers put into it, for the track too
 
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