Just the facts on the latest Astana doping scandal

[richwagmn]

I want to start a thread where we list the "facts" about this news story. No opinion, debate, name calling. Lets just list the facts that we know. Dates would be super useful too.

 

[Race Radio]

*Infusion equipment was found in/around hotels where Astana was staying
*All other teams have been cleared
*seven genetic profiles of different people were found. None have been identified
*Needles of a certain size are banned by WADA and the AFLD
*Drip Bags and infusion equipment are banned by WADA and the AFLD
*Athletes and support staff are at risk of legal sanction, including imprisonment
*Johann has said they did not use anything that was prohibited.
*Oclaesp followed closely the Astana team during the 2009 Tour
*in their report submitted to the Paris prosecutor's office Oclaesp says that Astana "has benefited from significant delays before they submit to unannounced inspections." allowing them "Sufficient time to allow it to dilute the blood, for example"
*7 of the 8 riders who finished the Tour for Astana now ride for Radio Shack
*Anti Hypertension drugs were found in Astana's trash
*They are testing for HGH as well
*Astana delayed the testers on at least two occasions during the 2009 Tour for over 45 minutes each time.

 

[frenchfry]

OCLAESP (l’Office central de lutte contre les atteintes à l’environnement et à la santé publique) prévient et réprime l'ensemble du contentieux découlant des atteintes portées à l’environnement et à la santé publique.

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/gendarmerie/dossiers/environnement_la_gendarmerie_aussi

OCLAESP is part of the Gendarmerie and one of their missions is to investigate public health hasards including doping.

 

[Mellow Velo]

The syringes will be analyzed by a forensic lab called Toxlab, which is responsible for determining their content.

The investigation was opened after syringes and transfusion material were found in a container used by the Kazakh-funded team to dump medical waste during the last four stages of this year's race, the source added.
PARIS (Reuters)

 

[BroDeal]

The investigation was opened after syringes and transfusion material were found in a container used by the Kazakh-funded team to dump medical waste during the last four stages of this year's race, the source added.
PARIS (Reuters)

That is interesting. By the end of the Tour, relations between Contador and the rest of the team seemed to be pretty bad. If the teams was not sharing cars with him, would they be sharing rehydration IVs? And even if they were willing to share, would he trust the team enough to use what was offered?

 

[Rex Hunter]

I want to start a thread where we list the "facts" about this news story. No opinion, debate, name calling. Lets just list the facts that we know. Dates would be super useful too.

Wouldn't it be more sensible just to read the article? That's where everybody is getting their facts from.

 

[craig1985]

This should be sticked.

 

[eleven]

As of now, no traces of any doping product have been uncovered on the materials analysed.

 

[BroDeal]

As of now, no traces of any doping product have been uncovered on the materials analysed.

It does not matter if they were infusing only saline. It is still prohibited.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Athletes could receive those infusions if they have a therapeutic exemption (TUE), which means the procedure is medically necessary and has been authorized by a doctor.

That's gonna be a heck of a long back dating....

 

[eleven]

It does not matter if they were infusing only saline. It is still prohibited.

Yes, that is correct. That fact was addressed in the 2nd post here.

 

[Digger]

Yes, that is correct. That fact was addressed in the 2nd post here.

Which makes your point about no doping substances being YET found pointless.

 

[eleven]

Which makes your point about no doping substances being YET found pointless.

In a thread where the OP requests we post all the known facts and only the known facts about the case, I'm not sure how it's pointless to post known facts that have not yet been posted.

If doping products are found, then a fact can be added to the thread: doping products were found after the time of my post.

 

[Digger]

In a thread where the OP requests we post all the known facts and only the known facts about the case, I'm not sure how it's pointless to post known facts that have not yet been posted.

If doping products are found, then a fact can be added to the thread: doping products were found after the time of my post.

And the facts are that doping products being found are not of paramount importance here...the laws have already been broken. So doping products being found or not found is not the issue at hand.

 

[eleven]

And the facts are that doping products being found are not of paramount importance here...the laws have already been broken. So doping products being found or not found is not the issue at hand.

I've read the OP a couple times and it doesn't say anything about posting only the facts that Digger considers of "paramount importance". In fact, it says:

"Lets just list the facts that we know"

I listed a fact that we know that had not yet been listed.

 

[Digger]

I've read the OP a couple times and it doesn't say anything about posting only the facts that Digger considers of "paramount importance". In fact, it says:

"Lets just list the facts that we know"

I listed a fact that we know that had not yet been listed.

already implied.......
but we both know the reason you felt you had to type that there was no doping substances found...eventhough there were other questionable substances - simply you're defending your boy..

 

[eleven]

already implied.......
there is 24 hours in a day......

I don't see any caveat about posting only facts that may or may not be previously implied. Why does my posting of one of the unlisted facts in this case bother you so much? You seem to be hung up on something.

 

[oldschoolnik]

The NY Times's Posts a short piece about adding one tidbit...

There is nothing new in The New York Times piece except that she does hint at a possible explanation that might be used "But athletes could receive those infusions if they have a therapeutic exemption, which means the procedure is medically necessary and has been authorized by a doctor""

She also does not mention any number of riders that have been linked to materials via DNA analysis.

I am glad that they covered it though.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/sports/cycling/24cycling.html

 

[Race Radio]

There is nothing new in The New York Times piece except that she does hint at a possible explanation that might be used "But athletes could receive those infusions if they have a therapeutic exemption, which means the procedure is medically necessary and has been authorized by a doctor""

She also does not mention any number of riders that have been linked to materials via DNA analysis.

I am glad that they covered it though.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/sports/cycling/24cycling.html

Thanks for the Link Nik.

The TUE would have had to have been filed with the UCI. Unlike 99 backdated TUE's are no longer excepted. If Astana did in fact have a TUE for 7 riders I wonder why the Hog has not produced it yet as he has known about this for a few months.

 

[Big Doopie]

things that wouldn't surprise me

1. armstrong does his doping separately with his own specific docs under the supervision of ferrari. he has the money and way too much to lose to risk throwing away his stuff with the team's. he is the one rider missing...unfortunately.

2. if anyone is implicated it will be contador as armstrong, the hog and shack need him out of the way and have paid the uci too many $$ not to have it so.

3. it is ominous that the guy who promised us transparency is now discarding all independent testing for the uci's delayed testing procedures that never catch anybody. at the same time mcquaid is doing a full court press to eliminate afld from the tour testing. it appears that armstrong is prepping an arms (dope) race for the 2010 tour. it's the only race he knows he can win...

 

[Race Radio]

I don't see any caveat about posting only facts that may or may not be previously implied. Why does my posting of one of the unlisted facts in this case bother you so much? You seem to be hung up on something.

Perhaps it is because your claim of "no trace of any doping product" is not correct.

There were anti hypertension drugs found. While these drugs are not banned by name they are banned by method. If they are used in conjunction with blood doping they are banned. There are many duel use drugs that are considered "Doping Products" if used incorrectly.

 

[eleven]

Thanks for the Link Nik.

The TUE would have had to have been filed with the UCI. Unlike 99 backdated TUE's are no longer excepted. If Astana did in fact have a TUE for 7 riders I wonder why the Hog has not produced it yet as he has known about this for a few months.

It is almost impossible to imagine having 7 of 9 riders possessing a TUE for such materials. That would imply that either the TUE process is absurd or the Astana squad is a very, very sickly bunch.

 

[eleven]

Perhaps it is because your claim of "no trace of any doping product" is not correct.

There were anti hypertension drugs found. While these drugs are not banned by name they are banned by method. If they are used in conjunction with blood doping they are banned. There are many duel use drugs that are considered "Doping Products" if used incorrectly.

There was no trace of doping product in the materials found. Anti-hypertensive are not doping products and the taking an anti-hypertensive provides on athletic benefit.

 

[Tangled Tango]

It is almost impossible to imagine having 7 of 9 riders possessing a TUE for such materials. That would imply that either the TUE process is absurd or the Astana squad is a very, very sickly bunch.

Of course Astana was the most sickly bunch in 09, that´s why they needed all that "medication"......"emergency medication"......."proscribed by their special medicating doctors".

 

[oldschoolnik]

It is almost impossible to imagine having 7 of 9 riders possessing a TUE for such materials. That would imply that either the TUE process is absurd or the Astana squad is a very, very sickly bunch.

It would seem improbable but doesn't like 95% of the pro peloton suffer from asthma with exception certificates to prove it vs. 7% of the normal US population? There is a quote from a few years back from Richard Pound about how ridiculous it was that so many pro cyclists had Asthma and other conditions requiring all kind sof meds...