JV talks, sort of

[Ryo Hazuki]

but Armstrong always had the hypodermics and saucepans.

he started the alchemy in triathlon.

cav woulda been similar. the way cycling is set up, favoured this athlete type. this psychology type.

interesting case will be how an ascent to the top, may change someone, and what definition of "change" is used. (this is psychology type).

is Wiggins gonna become a Mofo and patron in the Armstrong mould. Because he looks like he is a decent person. How will he leverage his new found power? I am of the postion, that the British track endurance program, never deserved their squeaky reputation through the 2000's. they did what the others did. which made it more hypocritical with the cofidis scandal when they were booted from the tour and vino ejected, and wiggins comments, because he woulda been on a maintenance program then. not a heavy duty program. do they give themselves a pass with this? because if they already think doping is no probs, just the health aspect is a concern http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/21-NOW-FINAL-.pdf

then why come out with the personal polemics when a rider like vino or ricco falls foul?

these folks cant even tell the truth to themselves

sources?

....

 

[sniper]

Jonathan, could you expand on the role of Johnny Weltz at Garmin?
The team's website only says this:

In addition to being the head Sports Director at USPS from 1997-1998, Johnny was the winner of a stage in the 1988 Tour de France, and a long standing member of the powerful ONCE team. Johnny brings extensive experience to the Garmin-Transitions team, and seeks to lead the team to greatness in their European campaigns.

Has he ever admitted to his role as doping courier at USPS? Is or has he been talking to USADA?

 

[JimmyFingers]

but Armstrong always had the hypodermics and saucepans.

he started the alchemy in triathlon.

cav woulda been similar. the way cycling is set up, favoured this athlete type. this psychology type.

interesting case will be how an ascent to the top, may change someone, and what definition of "change" is used. (this is psychology type).

is Wiggins gonna become a Mofo and patron in the Armstrong mould. Because he looks like he is a decent person. How will he leverage his new found power? I am of the postion, that the British track endurance program, never deserved their squeaky reputation through the 2000's. they did what the others did. which made it more hypocritical with the cofidis scandal when they were booted from the tour and vino ejected, and wiggins comments, because he woulda been on a maintenance program then. not a heavy duty program. do they give themselves a pass with this? because if they already think doping is no probs, just the health aspect is a concern http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/21-NOW-FINAL-.pdf

then why come out with the personal polemics when a rider like vino or ricco falls foul?

these folks cant even tell the truth to themselves

This all highly speculative. Surely there is a huge danger in talking in definitives when they are suspicious. They may be suspicious based on good instinct and analysis but they remain suspicions not truth, which means that final line is an injustice to those you accuse.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Not really no. Only a 5 year old would believe what the riders are saying, and if you believe it then you are either delusional or a 5 year old.

They can't tell the truth because they've lost all sight of what the truth is - well they know what the truth is but they can't admit it because it'll expose their fraud. They've been lying for so long they can't even keep their lies straight. Each new lie contradicts an old lie and exposes their hypocrisy and lying further.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Jonathan, could you expand on the role of Johnny Weltz at Garmin?
The team's website only says this:
Has he ever admitted to his role as doping courier at USPS? Is or has he been talking to USADA?

And are you still working with Dr Carlos Gonzalez?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Not really no. Only a 5 year old would believe what the riders are saying, and if you believe it then you are either delusional or a 5 year old.

They can't tell the truth because they've lost all sight of what the truth is - well they know what the truth is but they can't admit it because it'll expose their fraud. They've been lying for so long they can't even keep their lies straight. Each new lie contradicts an old lie and exposes their hypocrisy and lying further.

This logic basically means there is no room for debate, no room for analysis and no possibility any rider is a) riding clean and b) telling the truth

And only a 5 year old would believe that is the case.

 

[SundayRider]

but Armstrong always had the hypodermics and saucepans.

he started the alchemy in triathlon.

cav woulda been similar. the way cycling is set up, favoured this athlete type. this psychology type.

interesting case will be how an ascent to the top, may change someone, and what definition of "change" is used. (this is psychology type).

is Wiggins gonna become a Mofo and patron in the Armstrong mould. Because he looks like he is a decent person. How will he leverage his new found power? I am of the postion, that the British track endurance program, never deserved their squeaky reputation through the 2000's. they did what the others did. which made it more hypocritical with the cofidis scandal when they were booted from the tour and vino ejected, and wiggins comments, because he woulda been on a maintenance program then. not a heavy duty program. do they give themselves a pass with this? because if they already think doping is no probs, just the health aspect is a concern http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/21-NOW-FINAL-.pdf

then why come out with the personal polemics when a rider like vino or ricco falls foul?

these folks cant even tell the truth to themselves

What I meant was the 'American dream' sort of thing (British society is a bit like this too) in that if you want something bad enough and do enough work then you can achieve what you want. However sports and especially endurance sport like cycling is not like this.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

What I meant was the 'American dream' sort of thing (British society is a bit like this too) in that if you want something bad enough and do enough work then you can achieve what you want.

British society is a bit like this too? Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

What I meant was the 'American dream' sort of thing (British society is a bit like this too) in that if you want something bad enough and do enough work then you can achieve what you want. However sports and especially endurance sport like cycling is not like this.

no it's not it's ABSOLUTELY not. you never visited either countries if you think that way.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

This logic basically means there is no room for debate, no room for analysis and no possibility any rider is a) riding clean and b) telling the truth

And only a 5 year old would believe that is the case.

Only a delusional 5 year old would interpret my argument that way. I am not sure you really understand the concepts of logic, debate or analysis. Which really means that your making less sense than you normally do.

Oh sorry, my mistake, I've realised why you've got your knickers in a twist here. Blackcat was critical of Brits, so you just needed to come in and defend those poor, maligned clean British boys.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Only a delusional 5 year old would interpret my argument that way. I am not sure you really understand the concepts of logic, debate or analysis. Which really means that your making less sense than you normally do.

Oh sorry, my mistake, I've realised why you've got your knickers in a twist here. Blackcat was critical of Brits, so you just needed to come in and defend those poor, maligned clean British boys.

And herein I stop engaging with you. Silly nonsense and not deserving of a reply, unlike Blackcat's post, which I addressed in a measured way as a poster I respect. Unlike you

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Of course Jimmy, of course. Just like all the other times you've stormed off in huff. 6 inch nails ok for you?

 

[SundayRider]

no it's not it's ABSOLUTELY not. you never visited either countries if you think that way.

I've lived in the England, UK all my life, depends how old you are and whereabouts you live etc at the end of the day its perception isn't it.

 

[Benotti69]

Jonathan, could you expand on the role of Johnny Weltz at Garmin?
The team's website only says this:
Has he ever admitted to his role as doping courier at USPS? Is or has he been talking to USADA?

Did Johnny admit to what went on at ONCE?

 

[pmcg76]

Jonathan, could you expand on the role of Johnny Weltz at Garmin?
The team's website only says this:
Has he ever admitted to his role as doping courier at USPS? Is or has he been talking to USADA?

Surely if Weltz had been talking to USADA, it would have been included in the reasoned decision. No?

JV was at Postal when Weltz was DS and as JV alluded to in an earlier post in regards to CVV etc, he already knew what they got up to, didn't he.

Benotti-what relevance does Weltz talking about what happened at ONCE 20 years ago have in the scheme of things.

 

[Benotti69]

Surely if Weltz had been talking to USADA, it would have been included in the reasoned decision. No?

JV was at Postal when Weltz was DS and as JV alluded to in an earlier post in regards to CVV etc, he already knew what they got up to, didn't he.

Benotti-what relevance does Weltz talking about what happened at ONCE 20 years ago have in the scheme of things.

Why not? Let it all out. I want everyone to know what happened in order to stop it happening again. The more that talk about it the better.

Some of those 20 years ago are still in the sport. Lets hear what they did so we know. Why should we only hear about the few? Why not everyone? You wanna stay in this sport, admit to what you did.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Why not? Let it all out. I want everyone to know what happened in order to stop it happening again. The more that talk about it the better.

Some of those 20 years ago are still in the sport. Lets hear what they did so we know. Why should we only hear about the few? Why not everyone? You wanna stay in this sport, admit to what you did.

The last sentence sounds a lot better than what seems to be happening. No one in charge of the sport really cares about the sport enough to change the sport.

Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man

P.S. I miss the race chats on velorooms, they were good. Probably still are just I am not there. Really regret what I did over there

 

[pmcg76]

Why not? Let it all out. I want everyone to know what happened in order to stop it happening again. The more that talk about it the better.

Some of those 20 years ago are still in the sport. Lets hear what they did so we know. Why should we only hear about the few? Why not everyone? You wanna stay in this sport, admit to what you did.

Isn't that what any proposed T & R is supposed to be for. What does it change other than confirm what we already know. Zulle talked about doping at ONCE, Stephen Hodge admitted to doping and he spent most of his career at ONCE so what new are we going to learn that has relevance to the sport now.

 

[JV1973]

From Rabo, to USPS, to Phonak.

JV says Ryder is clean. But with the Biopassport so clearly flawed in 2012, JV is yet to give us a tangible reason why we should take his word for it.

More correct would be to say we don't and can't know if Ryder is clean or not.

Two small notes for which I accept to get slammed:

1. Geert wrote training schedules for Sven. Who wrote Ryder's schedules when he was at Rabo?

2. At the 2004 Olympics, I assume just after leaving Rabo for USPS, Ryder was leading the field and on his way to a gold medal (source wikipedia). He missed out on the gold medal due to a flat tire close to the finish (don't know exactly how close). We know those games weren't all that clean, with Bart Brentjens coming in 3rd, José Antonio Hermida in 2nd.

Obviously none of this is evidence that Ryder's dirty.
The point is: there is very little to assume he's clean, other than JV's word.

I've said, according to the data that is available to me (bio passport, starting in 2008) Ryder has always ridden clean on my team. I also believe this to be true. All of my knowledge of the situation would say he's ridden clean (to avoid the little word games you guys like to play)

 

[JV1973]

Surely if Weltz had been talking to USADA, it would have been included in the reasoned decision. No?

JV was at Postal when Weltz was DS and as JV alluded to in an earlier post in regards to CVV etc, he already knew what they got up to, didn't he.

Benotti-what relevance does Weltz talking about what happened at ONCE 20 years ago have in the scheme of things.

Johnny was questioned by the Feds. He was dead honest with them. USADA did not ask for him. I don't know why.

 

[JV1973]

And are you still working with Dr Carlos Gonzalez?

The worlds worst motor pacer? No. we fired him for being a moron. He sued us. we won.

 

[JV1973]

You really are a funny guy sometimes, no sarcasm here.

And good at dodging questions too. How much did the EPO attribute in your training? Endulge me on that one.I tend to think this is a bit of sour, but I guess you are right on that one, Lim we already discussed in the past.And why are they not there anymore? Do you not think that is strange?

Le Breton did a great job, as allways we might say!

Stopwatch and calculator? What about using the eyes? Who is doing what? Putting that in historic perspective?

Thanks for the answers, glad there is another way of communicating than b!tching
[works 2 ways of course]

Hey, sorry, didn't read your question right.

i started taking EPO May 14 in 1999. So, how much it effected my training between May 14 and June 9 (day of Ventoux, I don't know? I consumed about 12,000 units in that time period.

I've read some folks (mainly domestic pros) complaining that EPO has some super long term effect. The data available, plus anecdotal experience would contradict that idea. Basically, as soon as the extra red cells are gone, so is the added performance. In some cases, guys really drop anchor when they come off a cycle. And some never quite make it back.

So, I'm not a huge believer in EPO helping, long term, with training. Myoglobin adjusts to the higher Hb levels, and after some time even the extra red cells don't help as much.

But there have never been controlled studies done on the subject, so who knows...

 

[sublimit]

Only a delusional 5 year old would interpret my argument that way. I am not sure you really understand the concepts of logic, debate or analysis. Which really means that your making less sense than you normally do.

Oh sorry, my mistake, I've realised why you've got your knickers in a twist here. Blackcat was critical of Brits, so you just needed to come in and defend those poor, maligned clean British boys.

Blackcat loves Brits deep down, its just an act on the clinic I reckon..

The lad probably has a giant poster of Christina Ohurugo on his wall.

 

[JV1973]

Did Johnny admit to what went on at ONCE?

I hope so! Good lord that team was a nuclear power plant.

 

[JV1973]

Jonathan, could you expand on the role of Johnny Weltz at Garmin?
The team's website only says this:
Has he ever admitted to his role as doping courier at USPS? Is or has he been talking to USADA?

He's a DS. He was a DS at USPS too. In his time as head DS there, you wouldn't need a courier. You could tape EPO to your forehead and no one would say anything, nor was it illegal to possess. Well, except in France starting in 1998, but that was toward the end of his tenure as head DS.