JV talks, sort of

[sniper]

I'm not ever going to call out another team in a public forum. Not my style. I'll call them out to WADA, behind closed doors, if I think something is afoot. I'm never going to do it here, as it just ends up on the main page of Cyclingnews within 5 hours.

I don't know what Sky were presenting ASO.

"I don'T know" is what you could have said to Walsh. In fact, with all your experience and intellectual capacities combined, there's no way you'Re going to say to Walsh "I believe Sky are clean", unless you don't want him to inquire into Sky.
Ok, sorry, I'll rest my case now.

 

[Netserk]

I'm not ever going to call out another team in a public forum. Not my style. I'll call them out to WADA, behind closed doors, if I think something is afoot. I'm never going to do it here, as it just ends up on the main page of Cyclingnews within 5 hours.

I don't know what Sky were presenting ASO.

regarding the bolded: Would you have preferred if they took contact to you before publishing the story?

 

[JV1973]

Has there every been talk of budget caps as in some sports to create more parity? What percentage is your team's budget compared to Sky? Other than rider payroll, what are the major limiting budget factors that effect your team - staffing, longer training camps, etc.? If your budget doubled, what would you change (besides riders)?

We operate at about 55% of Sky's global budget. I don't know the exact budgets of each team, but I can tell you the median WT team budget is $23M USD.

 

[JV1973]

What do you think about AICAR? There seem to be some rumours that this is the new hot thing, have you heard any rumours about it in the inner circles?

I heard a lot of rumors about AICAR in 2008-2009, not as much recently.

 

[sniper]

I heard a lot of rumors about AICAR in 2008-2009, not as much recently.

2009? What happened to the 2008 truce?

and why didn't the passport stop AICAR in 2008/9?

jeeezz

 

[Netserk]

What do you think about the amount of doctors that have previously been involved with doping in teams. Seems like more than half of all teams have such doctors that seem similar to Del Moral etc.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If you can do 6.0 w/kg and you get you *** handed to you by guys doing 6.6, then blame doping and ask for a damn apology. But what I hear a lot of these days are guys who, 10-15 years ago, could do 5.2 w/kg, complaining they were robbed. 5.2 + massive doping = 5.7.

Pretty sure Adam Hansen's FTP is 5.3W/kg.

Just sayin'.

 

[sniper]

why was Prentice calling Weltz a drug cheat in 1996 and is happy with him on one team in 2013? I don't see how Prentice can be so oblivious. Has the air been cleared between them? Weltz never came clean in public. Did he come clean behind the scenes?
Why is Weltz on your team in the first place? What qualities does he bring to the team?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't. They could be lying.

So why put your own reputation on the line for something you can't verify?
You can stand by your team - but aren't you exposing yourself to disappointment or even ridicule by trusting others data?

I realize there is a huge trust (or more correctly mistrust) issue between all the parties and stakeholders involved.
But there is a difference to being open to persuasion and accepting whats given.

I think that's cycling's problem right there - the sport needs to do more to show it is trying to address it's problems.
And quite frankly that is something you should be insisting on, not taking things at face value.

As for all the examples, like Galizynov, Hounard, etc... I think the biopass, for legal reasons, is more effective at targeting athletes, than actually bringing violation charges against them. targeted athletes tend to panic and stop doping, or get caught. Thats where it is efficacious, not in its actual ability to throw positives.

It's more effective as a deterrent and a limiter. But, this is where we differ, for me, that's still great news. Ive said this before: I don't care if people are doping, I care if it's possible that my team wins clean. If that remains in the realm of possibility, I am happy.

(of course I would be happier if no doping existed at all)

Why am I so non-idealistic here?

Because I lived/raced through a time period that makes this era look like an absolute utopia. Races were not won clean, ever, in WT racing when I started in the pros. So, you have to realize the stark contrast I see. Maybe it makes me more optimistic than you would like. But those are my life experiences.

JV

That is acceptable and understandable (IMO).
And I do think things are somewhat cleaner - but yet again cycling is at a point where some are waiting to see what happens, if there is hesitation or nothing constructive the void will be filled with those who gain from doping.

 

[Granville57]

It's really discouraging such rude and personal attacks. i don't take you for a fool, I take you for someone who has already made up their mind and is not worth debating with.

And yet...and yet...and yet.


Admit it, JV. You LOVE it here!

You can't stay away. Just. Can't. Do it.

Resistance is futile. Just relax and enjoy the circus.


(Dude, you won Paris-Roubaix and the Giro. Throw that around a bit more, would ya'?)

 

[blackcat]

this, obviously.
all logic suggests sky are probably doping. johnny is a logic thinker. no way he really believes they are clean. the wiggo bomb is ticking.

to be honest, I have more respect for an omertist like Riis than for a guy who comes in here and lies me in the face after two decades of circus.


this, very much.
sad that you have to spell it out to jv. he knows it, but is keeping us for fools i guess.


good post Dr.
if you look closely, you'll find more foam than substance in most of what jv says.
and a lot of backtracking and disclaimers.

lie?

or nod and wink?

nod and w@nk, twink or reach-around?

come on, everyone who posts in here are in on the meta reality. Even that SkyFans guy, who does dbrower type backgrounding on Armstrong, and the doctor links. He must know his heroes are doping. <Brecht quote>

cognitive dissonance.

Hoy, Gollum, and Wigans knighthoods. + Frodo soon.

Four pedalo's of Apocalypse

 

[JV1973]

why was Prentice calling Weltz a drug cheat in 1996 and is happy with him on one team in 2013? I don't see how Prentice can be so oblivious. Has the air been cleared between them? Weltz never came clean in public. Did he come clean behind the scenes?
Why is Weltz on your team in the first place? What qualities does he bring to the team?

You'd have to ask Novitzky, he spent 5 hours with Johnny. Maybe they discussed flavors of ice cream?

 

[JV1973]

So why put your own reputation on the line for something you can't verify?
You can stand by your team - but aren't you exposing yourself to disappointment or even ridicule by trusting others data?

I realize there is a huge trust (or more correctly mistrust) issue between all the parties and stakeholders involved.
But there is a difference to being open to persuasion and accepting whats given.

I think that's cycling's problem right there - the sport needs to do more to show it is trying to address it's problems.
And quite frankly that is something you should be insisting on, not taking things at face value.





That is acceptable and understandable (IMO).
And I do think things are somewhat cleaner - but yet again cycling is at a point where some are waiting to see what happens, if there is hesitation or nothing constructive the void will be filled with those who gain from doping.

Well, the climbing speed stuff is my own calcs. Just to clarify. I put more weight on that than blood values anyway. I mean, if climbing speeds of the best guys are down 10%, that means something. Maybe just that everyone sucks, but I'm making a leap of faith that it means something else.

 

[sniper]

lie?

or nod and wink?

nod and w@nk, twink or reach-around?

come on, everyone who posts in here are in on the meta reality. Even that SkyFans guy, who does dbrower type backgrounding on Armstrong, and the doctor links. He must know his heroes are doping. <Brecht quote>

cognitive dissonance.

Hoy, Gollum, and Wigans knighthoods. + Frodo soon.

Four pedalo's of Apocalypse

i see the nod and wink if he'd only say it in here or in mainstream media.
but if he's saying it to convince guys like Walsh, that's different. I can only explain that by assuming that jv, at best, is not at all interested in exposing sky. At worst, there is a wiggo bomb ticking under his chair.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think JV, like every guy with a brain, is suspect about Sky. Nothing more nothing less. So if he comes in here and says he believes they're clean, well he's lying (imo). Disclaimers of the "I could be wrong" type obviously don't change that, Doc.

But he didn't come in here and state they were clean. The only liar here is you.
And a disclaimer is just that.
JV has given his reasons - you may not agree, and thats fine. But you cannot accuse someone of lying when they are not.

Now, it's not bad that he's lying to me. But when he's trying to keep guys like Walsh from inquiring, that's where it gets nasty.

But I thought you said David was already in Skys pocket because of ST and that they paid for his trip?

 

[sniper]

You'd have to ask Novitzky, he spent 5 hours with Johnny. Maybe they discussed flavors of ice cream?

the other parts of my question:
Why is Weltz on your team?
What qualities does he bring to the team?
Is the air between Weltz and PRentice cleared?

 

[JV1973]

What do you think about the amount of doctors that have previously been involved with doping in teams. Seems like more than half of all teams have such doctors that seem similar to Del Moral etc.

Good friggin question. Prentice has always busted balls on this one. I let Prentice do the hiring of medical staff. he knows his stuff, so I leave him to it.

 

[JV1973]

the other parts of my question:
Why is Weltz on your team?
What qualities does he bring to the team?
Is the air between Weltz and PRentice cleared?

I like him
Prentice likes him
He's a good director

Sorry, folks, I have to go....I have class...Literally.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well, the climbing speed stuff is my own calcs. Just to clarify. I put more weight on that than blood values anyway. I mean, if climbing speeds of the best guys are down 10%, that means something. Maybe just that everyone sucks, but I'm making a leap of faith that it means something else.

Down 10% from when?

 

[Netserk]

Good friggin question. Prentice has always busted balls on this one. I let Prentice do the hiring of medical staff. he knows his stuff, so I leave him to it.

It wasn't about Garmin, but teams in general. Seems like the doctors from the 90's is stil here

 

[sniper]

But you cannot accuse someone of lying when they are not.

ehm, if he says A, but means B, he's lying. Not sure what's not clear about that.
but as i said, i don't mind the lying. i mind his attempts to keep people from inquiring into sky.

But I thought you said David was already in Skys pocket because of ST and that they paid for his trip?

are those options mutually exclusive? don't think so.
but both options are just me speculating. you don't need to agree.

 

[Granville57]

JV, I'm gonna make this easy on you. Copy and Paste the quoted below, and make it your signature. You'll get mad props from some on here, while providing us all with a bit more entertainment. And since you keep coming back, I'm going to assume that entertaining us is your Prime Directive (and we thank you for that).

Hey, in case you haven't noticed, I've won Paris-Roubaix (the greatest of one-day races) and the Giro (the greatest of Grand Tours).
So f'ck off!

-JV

But JV, please pay close attention to the smiley emoticon at the end of that quote. Be sure to include that, otherwise you may get banned for trolling or rude and offensive behavior, and we really can't have that (the banning of you, or said behavior).


You're welcome.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

ehm, your analytical skills desert you here, doc. take a dictionary and come back. but as i said, i don't mind the lying. i mind his attempts to keep people from inquiring into sky.

are those options mutually exclusive? don't think so.
but both options are just me speculating. you don't need to agree.

Just to remind you what you said:

to be honest, I have more respect for an omertist like Riis than for a guy who comes in here and lies me in the face after two decades of circus

 

[sniper]

Just to remind you what you said:

to be honest, I have more respect for an omertist like Riis than for a guy who comes in here and lies me in the face after two decades of circus

Yeah, you're right. You got me there.
you know, it fluctuates.
Blackcat says JV's only fooling around. Nod and a wink.
But in fact I don't think he's only fooling around.
I think he's genuinely trying to persuade people into believing something that he knows is first class bullocks.

 

[blackcat]

Good friggin question. Prentice has always busted balls on this one. I let Prentice do the hiring of medical staff. he knows his stuff, so I leave him to it.

ball(s)


uni

later

al(l)

orchi

ecto

mee