JV talks, sort of

[Netserk]

Remember this:

Enough Doc and Benotti!

If you continue to flame each other you will have to face the consequences.

PS: This also counts for Sniper.

This thread is about JV. Take your bickering elsewhere.

 

[blackcat]

#Gunderson
#unilateral_orchiectomy

dropping the ball on Indiana Hospital Room - Betsy


you go girl (to #1 in MILF rankings with a rocket)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Remember this:


This thread is about JV. Take your bickering elsewhere.

Ya, the same JV who requested that this thread be closed because he found it "hurtful" because some here constantly lie and belittle the person by making personal attacks. Which is against forum rules.

Your the 'mod' do your role.
If you choose not to then I will happily refute all the inaccuracies that are presented here.

 

[sniper]

Ya, the same JV who requested that this thread be closed because he found it "hurtful" because some here constantly lie and belittle the person by making personal attacks. Which is against forum rules.

Your the 'mod' do your role.
If you choose not to then I will happily refute all the inaccuracies that are presented here.

the inaccuracies are in JVs stories. The forum is about doping. JV is DS of a team with a GT winner. His claims that it happened clean should be scrutinized to the max. We now know his firm claims and factual statements are largely based on data he himself doesn't know are accurate.
Scrutinizing his claims is what this thread should be about. His claims get to the core of what the Clinic is about: is there such a thing as clean cycling? Are those guys winning GTs clean?
No reason to feel sorry for Jonathan or to treat him with gloves. He gets paid big bucks thanks to all the millions of fans who swallow what they get served without asking.
The personal attacks have come from none other than him and you.

@fmk_RoI 1999 dauphine, ventoux stage: VAM 1912, w/kg 6.8.... See why I feel cycling is clean now?

yes, i know he backtracked on that, but boy does it reveal his agenda.

 

[sniper]

My opinion? Ricco is a good example. A guy who kept at it, hard core, long after most others had called a truce. That's just my opinion and its very subjective.

what truce?

I heard a lot of rumors about AICAR in 2008-2009, not as much recently.

the point being: it's not difficult to poke holes in jv's stories.
And I personally think it is important to meet his claims with skepcis and scutiny. Again, his claims go to the very core of what the clinic is about: the question of clean cycling.

all disclaimers apply.

 

[martinvickers]

Originally Posted by JV1973
My opinion? Ricco is a good example. A guy who kept at it, hard core, long after most others had called a truce. That's just my opinion and its very subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973
I heard a lot of rumors about AICAR in 2008-2009, not as much recently.

the point being: it's not difficult to poke holes in jv's stories.
And I personally think it is important to meet his claims with skepcis and scutiny. Again, his claims go to the very core of what the clinic is about: the question of clean cycling.

all disclaimers apply.

You do realise these two statements are not remotely mutually inconsistent, sniper?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Wasn''t there a one month gap in Ryder's 2012 passport testing in the run up to the Giro?

9 weeks Nov - Jan, then 6 weeks till the Feb test.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

the inaccuracies are in JVs stories. The forum is about doping. JV is DS of a team with a GT winner. His claims that it happened clean should be scrutinized to the max. We now know his firm claims and factual statements are largely based on data he himself doesn't know are accurate.

He is not a DS - he is General manager.
The data for his rider he gets separable. He already has that, so the BP is a separate matter.

Scrutinizing his claims is what this thread should be about. His claims get to the core of what the Clinic is about: is there such a thing as clean cycling? Are those guys winning GTs clean?
No reason to feel sorry for Jonathan or to treat him with gloves. He gets paid big bucks thanks to all the millions of fans who swallow what they get served without asking.

He gets paid the same whether he comes here or not - whether he is clean or not. In fact he could make more if he ditched Ellis for Andy Rhis.

maybe you should let the people who have not already called him a liar do the scrutinizing.

The personal attacks have come from none other than him and you.

yes, i know he backtracked on that, but boy does it reveal his agenda.

This is what you wrote:
to be honest, I have more respect for an omertist like Riis than for a guy who comes in here and lies me in the face after two decades of circus

You called JV a liar. He is right here, on this thread -and what, you don't expect him to take that personally? When you yourself are constantly caught out lying and basic errors and then you have a hissyfit and try and hide it and you are anonymous.

 

[martinvickers]

He is not a DS - he is General manager.
The data for his rider he gets separable. He already has that, so the BP is a separate matter.


He gets paid the same whether he comes here or not - whether he is clean or not. In fact he could make more if he ditched Ellis for Andy Rhis.

maybe you should let the people who have not already called him a liar do the scrutinizing.


This is what you wrote:
to be honest, I have more respect for an omertist like Riis than for a guy who comes in here and lies me in the face after two decades of circus

You called JV a liar. He is right here, on this thread -and what, you don't expect him to take that personally? When you yourself are constantly caught out lying and basic errors and then you have a hissyfit and try and hide it and you are anonymous.

To be absolutely fair, i'm not certain that Sniper is lying, so much as he has an extreme confirmation bias.

 

[sniper]

9 weeks Nov - Jan, then 6 weeks till the Feb test.

thanks. explains why JV didn't answer that question in the first place.
nothing to see here. move on.

p.s. Why hasn't Ryder ridden any races yet this season?

 

[peterst6906]

p.s. Why hasn't Ryder ridden any races yet this season?

According to him, he's sticking to the same program as last year. First race is Volta a Catalunya.

Of course, 2012 he raced TDU, Strade Bianche and Tirreno-Adriatico all before the Volta, so that statement can't be absolutely true, whether it was his words or the journalist's.

 

[mastersracer]

thanks. explains why JV didn't answer that question in the first place.
nothing to see here. move on.

p.s. Why hasn't Ryder ridden any races yet this season?

the fact that you and DW are raising this issue about the timing of these indicates you lack the most fundamental understanding of the program. I can only imagine what you'd make of the Bayesian methods involved in their testing.

 

[sniper]

the fact that you and DW are raising this issue about the timing of these indicates you lack the most fundamental understanding of the program. I can only imagine what you'd make of the Bayesian methods involved in their testing.

however you wanna spin it, that's a time window in which you can dope without getting caught.

Ryder probably doped at USPS and as a MTB-er.
He never came clean. Perhaps JV made him see Jesus.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

the fact that you and DW are raising this issue about the timing of these indicates you lack the most fundamental understanding of the program. I can only imagine what you'd make of the Bayesian methods involved in their testing.

the fact that there is only accusation in your post, and absolutely no content, is telling.

Bayesian methods involved are awesome for riders new to the BP that are up to speed with the (new) doping products.

More questions and doubts raised here: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1162382&highlight=Bayesian#post1162382

Apples. How do you like 'em?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

however you wanna spin it, that's a time window in which you can dope without getting caught.

Ryder probably doped at USPS and as a MTB-er.
He never came clean. Perhaps JV made him see Jesus.

Hesjedal's team history:

2013 Garmin - Sharp PRT - 0 All Points
2012 Team Garmin - Sharp PRT 19 1138 All Points
2011 Team Garmin - Cervélo PRT 72 606 All Points
2010 Garmin - Transitions PRT 17 1185 All Points
2009 Garmin - Slipstream PRT 99 495 All Points
2008 Garmin - Chipotle presented by H3O PROF 272 254 All Points
2007 Health Net presented by Maxxis PROF 678 85 All Points
2006 Phonak Hearing Systems PRT 256 247 All Points
2005 Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team PRT 777 69 All Points
2004 US Postal Service presented by Berry Floor TT1 873 38 All Points
2003 Rabobank TT3 TT3 1634 5 All Points
2002 Rabobank TT3 TT3 1195 17 All Points

Hesjedal is very likely doping. They know how to dope riders just under the radar at Garmin. It takes a lot of internal testing to do that.

 

[mastersracer]

the fact that there is only accusation in your post, and absolutely no content, is telling.

Bayesian methods involved are awesome for riders new to the BP that are up to speed with the (new) doping products.

More questions and doubts raised here: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1162382&highlight=Bayesian#post1162382

Apples. How do you like 'em?

Re Sniper's comment, the time window isn't fixed by the rider - that's the whole point of randomized, out of competition testing. RH had no role in when he gets tested and has never failed to report his whereabouts, as far as I know. Intimating that there's something suspicious about these intervals reveals a lack of understanding of the most basic operations of the program.

Re Bayesian methods, your comment is also wrong. First, a rider must register 6 months before competing, so there is a period of initial testing. Second, Bayesian methods have lots of ways of dealing with initial values and setting priors.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Re Sniper's comment, the time window isn't fixed by the rider - that's the whole point of randomized, out of competition testing. RH had no role in when he gets tested and has never failed to report his whereabouts, as far as I know. Intimating that there's something suspicious about these intervals reveals a lack of understanding of the most basic operations of the program.

Re Bayesian methods, your comment is also wrong. First, a rider must register 6 months before competing, so there is a period of initial testing. Second, Bayesian methods have lots of ways of dealing with initial values and setting priors.

But it is not an out of competition test.
It is the Biological Passport, which needs base lines and regular data. A 9 week gap is rather a long gap when trying to analysis data.

 

[autologous]

the fact that there is only accusation in your post, and absolutely no content, is telling.
...

Apples. How do you like 'em?

That's rich, coming from the idiot that just made this accusation :

Horner and Evans have basically the same amount of time off over summer: 6-7 months. One is sick, granted, the other suspended for past doping.

Horner @5-6 years older is smacking Cadel for 6.

JV has you pegged, an ignorant clown.

 

[mastersracer]

But it is not an out of competition test.
It is the Biological Passport, which needs base lines and regular data. A 9 week gap is rather a long gap when trying to analysis data.

From the UCI:

"Blood and urine samples may be collected during a race, during preparation/training periods or during the non-competitive season. Riders should expect to be required to provide a blood or urine sample at any time of the year and in any place."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

From the UCI:

"Blood and urine samples may be collected during a race, during preparation/training periods or during the non-competitive season. Riders should expect to be required to provide a blood or urine sample at any time of the year and in any place."

It is not an out of competition test - its the Biological Passport.
The BP needs constant data to be interpret it.

 

[sittingbison]

More to the point, the "From UCI" is the problem.

UCI should have absolutely NOTHING to do with testing, passports, prosecutions or sanctions. Perhaps explains why there is more than two month window in a longitudinal study of a GC contender

 

[dolophonic]

A lot of chat but the underlying theme here is if it walks like a duck....
The onus is now on teams to show they are clean and a lot of people feel there is a lot of talk and little substance.
We all know the whole never tested positive sham is BS.
Same as it never was....

 

[mastersracer]

It is not an out of competition test - its the Biological Passport.
The BP needs constant data to be interpret it.

The biological passport utilizes samples that are collected out of competition and in competition. The former are collected according to a variable schedule to introduce uncertainty. Point being, RH has no control over when his out of competition samples are taken, which is what both sniper and DW were charging.

 

[sittingbison]

The biological passport utilizes samples that are collected out of competition and in competition. The former are collected according to a variable schedule to introduce uncertainty. Point being, RH has no control over when his out of competition samples are taken, which is what both sniper and DW were charging.

I'm calling BS on the bolded.

They are pointing out the lack of adequate testing, nothing about Ryder having any control over it.

If any inferences are made, its that UCI is once again xposed as either completely hopeless and/or corrupt, and the passport thus rendered useless

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The biological passport utilizes samples that are collected out of competition and in competition. The former are collected according to a variable schedule to introduce uncertainty. Point being, RH has no control over when his out of competition samples are taken, which is what both sniper and DW were charging.

They did not say that at all.

Youre trying to spin out of this about when samples can be collected - what were are discussing is a long period when there were no sample collected.