JV talks, sort of

[Benotti69]

What doping riders?

2 Joaquim Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Katusha
3 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Movistar Team
4 Carlos Alberto Betancur Gomez (Col) AG2R La Mondiale
5 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre-Merida
6 Enrico Gasparotto (Ita) Astana Pro Team
7 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) BMC Racing Team
8 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin-Sharp (I have big doubts over Hesjedal)
9 Rui Alberto Faria Da Costa (Por) Movistar Team

You just couldn't resist it, could you.

Sorry that the rider this week has no link with Ferrari for you.

Walsh talked about people who cant see their nationalities as dopers. hmmm I am sorry I dont believe in miracles.

I keep asking what changed in cycling?

We heard all this crap about Levi, hincapie and all the ex USPS stopped doping when Armstrong left the sport in 2005! Yeah right, that Unicorn left and took all the dope with him!

 

[Netserk]

Why do you bold Betancur and not Hesjedal?

 

[Benotti69]

Why do you bold Betancur and not Hesjedal?

Betancur rode for Acqua&Sapone. Dirty.

I edited Hesjedal.

 

[gooner]

Walsh talked about people who cant see their nationalities as dopers. hmmm I am sorry I dont believe in miracles.

You were happy to talk about Kreuziger last with Ferrari and rightly so I might add.

Now tell me what's it this week?

If Dan Martin has anything to that level come out, then no problem. I don't judge this on passport.

The logic you applied above means you don't believe in any winner of any race which means you have a doping only view on everything no matter what happens.

I keep asking what changed in cycling?

We heard all this crap about Levi, hincapie and all the ex USPS stopped doping when Armstrong left the sport in 2005! Yeah right, that Unicorn left and took all the dope with him!

And that gives the right to throw innuendo around. Carry on.

 

[armchairclimber]

Would love to believe that clean riders can beat doping riders, but how is that possible?

I think that today was pretty good evidence that clean riders can beat dopers...and are doing so. What doping there is, clearly isn't anywhere near as effective as it was.

That's two wins for a clean Dan Martin this year. That's on top of wins for the likes of Quintana. (I'll leave the other obvious clean winners out of this )

 

[Pentacycle]

I think that today was pretty good evidence that clean riders can beat dopers...and are doing so. What doping there is, clearly isn't anywhere near as effective as it was.

That's two wins for a clean Dan Martin this year. That's on top of wins for the likes of Quintana. (I'll leave the other obvious clean winners out of this )

What difference can you make on the outside between dopers and non-dopers? For me everyone is doing it, so the only hope I have is that every riders dopes somewhat similarly.

Why can't people just enjoy cycling without judging the riders, wheter it is positively or negatively. I've seen great tactics and attacks today and Daniel was the strongest with an amazing jump. But I don't know why you should lable it as clean, it sickens me tbh.

 

[the sceptic]

What difference can you make on the outside between dopers and non-dopers? For me everyone is doing it, so the only hope I have is that every riders dopes somewhat similarly.

Why can't people just enjoy cycling without judging the riders, wheter it is positively or negatively. I've seen great tactics and attacks today and Daniel was the strongest with an amazing jump. But I don't know why you should lable it as clean, it sickens me tbh.

Yeah, just beacuse he speaks english and JV says he is clean doesnt make it true. He just powered away from a bunch of very suspicous riders. And that was after his teammate put in a monster effort.

 

[spalco]

What difference can you make on the outside between dopers and non-dopers? For me everyone is doing it, so the only hope I have is that every riders dopes somewhat similarly.

Why can't people just enjoy cycling without judging the riders, wheter it is positively or negatively. I've seen great tactics and attacks today and Daniel was the strongest with an amazing jump. But I don't know why you should lable it as clean, it sickens me tbh.

I can't speak for armchairclimber, but "I want to believe".

"They all dope equally" is not good enough for me.

 

[The Hitch]

Betancur rode for Acqua&Sapone. Dirty.

I edited Hesjedal.

Your being ridiculous.

Theres a difference between presenting an argument that a ludicrously suspicious rider is doping, and assuming that any rider with any suspicion is doped to prove that riders with less suspicion are also doped.

Is Betancur doped. Given the nature of sport no one would be surprised (rational people because hes an athlete, trolls because he doesnt speak english).

At the same time you can't bold him as a proven doper when assessing other riders, because he spent 2 years on a team with a few dopers

You can't even bold Evans who has 10 times more against him.

 

[Benotti69]

You were happy to talk about Kreuziger last with Ferrari and rightly so I might add.

Now tell me what's it this week?

This week is whatever happens.

If Dan Martin has anything to that level come out, then no problem. I don't judge this on passport.

The logic you applied above means you don't believe in any winner of any race which means you have a doping only view on everything no matter what happens.

And that gives the right to throw innuendo around. Carry on.

I asked a question in the JV thread. You can call it innuendo or whatever you please.

JV likes to talk about the sport being cleanER but i want to know why, how it is now cleanER and what made it cleanER. I dont buy his answers that passport is making it cleanER. UCI is still the same corrupt organisation it always was. Teams are the same DS, dodgy docs and the whole shebang.

No innunedo, facts.

 

[Benotti69]

Your being ridiculous.

Theres a differene between presenting an argument that a ludicrously suspicious rider is doping, and assuming that any rider with any suspicion is doped to prove that riders with less suspicion are also doped.

Is Betancur doped. Given the nature of sport no one would be surprised (rational people because hes an athlete, trolls because he doesnt speak english).

At the same time you can't bold him as a proven doper when assessing other riders, because he spent 2 years on a team with a few dopers

You can't even bold Evans who has 10 times more against him.

check here for the extent of Acqua&Sapone's few bad apples

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-I/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-II/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-III/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-Cantina-Tollo/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-Caffè-Mokambo/

a 'few' bad apples

 

[pmcg76]

This week is whatever happens.



I asked a question in the JV thread. You can call it innuendo or whatever you please.

JV likes to talk about the sport being cleanER but i want to know why, how it is now cleanER and what made it cleanER. I dont buy his answers that passport is making it cleanER. UCI is still the same corrupt organisation it always was. Teams are the same DS, dodgy docs and the whole shebang.

No innunedo, facts.

Well apparently Kimmage has tweeted that he was jumping out of his chair for the first time in years today watching Dan Martin win!!!

Sounds like quite an endorsement from your hero Kimmage.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

check here for the extent of Acqua&Sapone's few bad apples

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-I/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-II/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-III/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-Cantina-Tollo/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-Caffè-Mokambo/

a 'few' bad apples

Hesjedal rode for USPS AND for Phonak.... just saying...

 

[Benotti69]

Well apparently Kimmage has tweeted that he was jumping out of his chair for the first time in years today watching Dan Martin win!!!

Sounds like quite an endorsement from your hero Kimmage.

Kimmage aint my hero. He's a good journalist and a decent skin.

I have no hero's.

I am not asking Kimmage. Kimmage, when asked last night at a Whistleblowers evening, who was a clean cyclist in the last 30 years responed, " I dont know".

 

[Benotti69]

Hesjedal rode for USPS AND for Phonak.... just saying...

Yep. Well spotted. I doubt Hesjedal won a GT clean, same as Evans and Wiggins.

 

[pmcg76]

Kimmage aint my hero. He's a good journalist and a decent skin.

I have no hero's.

I am not asking Kimmage. Kimmage, when asked last night at a Whistleblowers evening, who was a clean cyclist in the last 30 years responed, " I dont know".

Well strange that you hold up what Kimmage says as almost gospel except when in contradicts what you want to believe.

Kimmage answered "I don't know" because he doesn't know as he is not directly involved with any team so he cannot give a definitive answer. Just like you or I do not know who dopes or doesn't know. He could speculate based on the same sort of reasoning and logic used here but I guess he didn't want to follow that route. He seem's to have put forward Pinotti and that's it. What that's based on I don't know.

I would find it strange for Kimmage to be getting excited about a rider winning who he didn't believe was clean?? Would be interesting to know if he would have been as excited if it had been Nico Roche in the same position.

 

[badboygolf16v]

You guys are making me wonder if Dan was doping when he won a 3/4/J race I did.

 

[Benotti69]

Well strange that you hold up what Kimmage says as almost gospel except when in contradicts what you want to believe.

Everyone contradicts themselves. Guess what I am human.

Kimmage answered "I don't know" because he doesn't know as he is not directly involved with any team so he cannot give a definitive answer. Just like you or I do not know who dopes or doesn't know.

No one knows outside the respective teams, team docs and team DS. The days of coomon knowledge are past.

He could speculate based on the same sort of reasoning and logic used here but I guess he didn't want to follow that route.

It is not hard to speculate based on the history of the sport, is it?

If we could see where and when the change happened to make cycling cleanER to an extent that clean riders can win then I might start to change my opinion.

He seem's to have put forward Pinotti and that's it. What that's based on I don't know.

He put forward Kohl at one stage. Kimmage is human, hence not a hero.

I would find it strange for Kimmage to be getting excited about a rider winning who he didn't believe was clean??

Why not? He loves the sport and that is why he is passionate about cleaning it up.

Would be interesting to know if he would have been as excited if it had been Nico Roche in the same position.

According to last night Kimmage started to critcise Roche when Roche backed McQuaid. Kimmage said he liked Nico up until he backed McQuaid to run the sport about a year ago. With all that has come out about UCI and Armstrong he felt Roche backing McQuaid was unforgivable.

 

[roundabout]

check here for the extent of Acqua&Sapone's few bad apples

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-I/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-II/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-III/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-Cantina-Tollo/

http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Acqua-e-Sapone-Caffè-Mokambo/

a 'few' bad apples

IIRC Masciarelli introduced his sons to Ferrari. So yeah, that team was pretty messed up.

 

[armchairclimber]

For me Garmin are the most credible "doing it clean" team. I'd say that Martin is as squeaky as you can get. There is, I think, good cause for optimism....not because the sport is clean but because the rewards for doping have been radically cut.

 

[blackcat]

For me Garmin are the most credible "doing it clean" team. I'd say that Martin is as squeaky as you can get. There is, I think, good cause for optimism....not because the sport is clean but because the rewards for doping have been radically cut.

yeah. like you go back on the past two decades of LBL, name me one winner that was on bread and water.

 

[the sceptic]

For me Garmin are the most credible "doing it clean" team. I'd say that Martin is as squeaky as you can get. There is, I think, good cause for optimism....not because the sport is clean but because the rewards for doping have been radically cut.

Doping only works in small races in Costa rica these days. In classics you have been able to win without doping since 2008.

 

[armchairclimber]

Well, had J Rod held on, I'd have shrugged my shoulders. As it is, I believe in this winner. I hope I'm not proved to be wrong down the line.

 

[blackcat]

Well strange that you hold up what Kimmage says as almost gospel except when in contradicts what you want to believe.

Kimmage answered "I don't know" because he doesn't know as he is not directly involved with any team so he cannot give a definitive answer. Just like you or I do not know who dopes or doesn't know. He could speculate based on the same sort of reasoning and logic used here but I guess he didn't want to follow that route. He seem's to have put forward Pinotti and that's it. What that's based on I don't know.

I would find it strange for Kimmage to be getting excited about a rider winning who he didn't believe was clean?? Would be interesting to know if he would have been as excited if it had been Nico Roche in the same position.

right on PK. more intellectually rigorous to abstain. cos cant prove the negative.

if that was his position.

he may just be leaning to no one was ever clean in his mind. and the cognitive dissonance prevails wrt dan martin

 

[Big Doopie]

For me Garmin are the most credible "doing it clean" team. I'd say that Martin is as squeaky as you can get. There is, I think, good cause for optimism....not because the sport is clean but because the rewards for doping have been radically cut.

great post. +1