JV talks, sort of

[taiwan]

Yeah even Wiggo knows it and has used it, although "bone idle w******" was taking paraphrasing to a new level

Nicely done.

 

[northstar]

I have no feelings for JV - good or bad - but his words do not pass the smell test. And his manipulation in here to silence people is rank.

It's a shame even you get me mixed up with haters, Blackcat.

What another person feels for JV - and there are some blind fans - means nothing to me at all. When it clouds their critical thinking, then I am sad.

You said ‘JV’s manipulation in here to silence people is rank’. I thought this comment was worthy of clarification. As Blackcat pointed out, your remark may have been facetious and I’m not sure if this is the case. Whether or not JV’s posts are ‘rank’ manipulation is a matter of opinion and I have no problem with differing viewpoints on that. What I take issue with is your notion that JV is trying to silence people in the thread. I have seen nothing of the sort. Care to provide examples of this or clarify your comment.
.

 

[blackcat]

You said ‘JV’s manipulation in here to silence people is rank’. I thought this comment was worthy of clarification. As Blackcat pointed out, your remarks tend to be facetious and I’m not sure if this is one of them. Whether or not JV’s posts are ‘rank’ manipulation is a matter of opinion and I have no problem with differing viewpoints on that. What I take issue with is your notion that JV is trying to silence people in the thread. I have seen nothing of the sort. Care to provide examples of this or clarify your comment.

no, mine were facetious.

Dear Wiggo rarely (if ever) posts humour. he is to be taken serious. i for one respect his position and contribution.

 

[JV1973]

Woops......sorry JV. My comments on used car salesman stuff really refers to the nature of your posts.

I am an incurable sceptic when it comes to anti doping in cycling. I will need more convincing that doping is playing less of an effective part in the sport, it's just not realistic.

I think just more honesty would go further to pacify me than any anti doping strategy.

That's the thing.... I'm not selling anything. I don't actually care if you guys believe what I'm saying or not. The important part is that what I'm saying is true and will be proven true a decade from now.

I'm willing to wait. If I'm wrong, well, then I guess Dear Wiggo would be a rich man if he took me up on my bet.

 

[JV1973]

we can make jonny vee an honorary member of The Clinic 12

Thank you.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That's the thing.... I'm not selling anything. I don't actually care if you guys believe what I'm saying or not. The important part is that what I'm saying is true and will be proven true a decade from now.

I'm willing to wait. If I'm wrong, well, then I guess Dear Wiggo would be a rich man if he took me up on my bet.

Remind us again what it is that you're saying that is true?

What's the bet?

There's people getting popped for doping nearly every week.

 

[Spider1964]

That's the thing.... I'm not selling anything. I don't actually care if you guys believe what I'm saying or not. The important part is that what I'm saying is true and will be proven true a decade from now.

I'm willing to wait. If I'm wrong, well, then I guess Dear Wiggo would be a rich man if he took me up on my bet.

Kudos for this, I initially wondered if you had an agenda coming in here, but from your responses all the way through this thread, in my mind, I think your only agenda is to speak your mind as candidly as possible.

Now one thing that I'm curious on, non clinic related, Strava... you for or against... big issue. MAMIL's love it, old school roadies hate it... how much discussion goes on in the peloton in relation to Strava?

 

[JV1973]

He was an estate agent when he retired from the sport.

Learnt the trade of selling dreams.

And yes you do say incorrect things.

He's doing an MBA.

Not quite playing happy families.

Plotting his next power play one can assume.

Ok, I get that you need to be angry or something, but a few points of clarification:

1. I only was in real estate for 2 years. It mostly involved a few projects that were turn of the century restoration projects that were set aside for limited income families. It wasn't sales alone, it was development.

2. The junior team 5280/Subaru was funded by the real estate business. The budget came 100% from the sales commissions on properties. Or my pocket. $50,000 was a big budget for a junior team in 2003-2004. 3 of the original 6 team members, who were 14-16 at the time, made it all the way to the World Tour.

3. An MBA is a lot of homework. I don't see much power just yet. I never finished my undergraduate degree and was admitted into an MBA program on some exemptions based on GRE scores and "life experience"... i would like to have a degree. It's a personal goal. Not a power play.

 

[JV1973]

Kudos for this, I initially wondered if you had an agenda coming in here, but from your responses all the way through this thread, in my mind, I think your only agenda is to speak your mind as candidly as possible.

Now one thing that I'm curious on, non clinic related, Strava... you for or against... big issue. MAMIL's love it, old school roadies hate it... how much discussion goes on in the peloton in relation to Strava?

I think STRAVA is great. Competition without risk of embarrassment or pressure. Just folks striving to go faster.

 

[JV1973]

Kudos for this, I initially wondered if you had an agenda coming in here, but from your responses all the way through this thread, in my mind, I think your only agenda is to speak your mind as candidly as possible.

Now one thing that I'm curious on, non clinic related, Strava... you for or against... big issue. MAMIL's love it, old school roadies hate it... how much discussion goes on in the peloton in relation to Strava?

Disclaimer: Garmin sells quite a few units due to Strava use, so maybe I'm selling something... Then again, if i was selling, i'd say use Garmin Connect and not Strava.

 

[Spider1964]

Disclaimer: Garmin sells quite a few units due to Strava use, so maybe I'm selling something... Then again, if i was selling, i'd say use Garmin Connect and not Strava.

HaHa.. I use a Garmin Edge 810.. so I'm good with Garmin... but I download to Strava... Garmin Connect not my cup of tea.

 

[diorgen]

Respect for getting your degree JV, I was an older college student once too and it's quite a challenge. Oh and please make sure a sky rider doesn't win the tour this year.

 

[rinse clear]

All I hope for cycling moving forward is that it becomes a clear sport that everyone can enjoy. The main problem is the UCI and until there has been a change in it, cycling will just go round in never ending circle. We just got to hope People like Jonathan can clear it up for the better moving forward, that why we need at least to have basic agreement, so progress can be made.

 

[131313]

Can you explain to me why you or folks on your team/organization think it's reasonable for a rider to look like this?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...ain-before-starting-the-tour-de-france_288186

Umm...holy sh!t! I think I understand RH's Giro implosion a little better. I understand the caveats of looking at photos and making judgements, and I certainly understand the need to maintain a low body weight. But there's massive muscle-wasting in his arms and legs. The only cyclist I've seen look this bad is Mara Abbott.

I understand squeezing performance out of athletes, but at a certain point not only does it become counterproductive (which appears to be the case here) but it's downright unhealthy. As someone who chooses not to dope in large part for health reasons as much as "honor" reasons, I'd almost rather see an athlete dope if he has to get that lean in order to perform.

So, have you considers a minimum body fat % to race, because I think it would be a good idea (and personally I think it would be a good idea for riders starting a grand tour across the board, all teams).

 

[Tinman]

Remind us again what it is that you're saying that is true?

What's the bet?

There's people getting popped for doping nearly every week.

There's people getting popped for organizing betting on sport outcomes nearly every week...

 

[horsinabout]

That's the thing.... I'm not selling anything. I don't actually care if you guys believe what I'm saying or not. The important part is that what I'm saying is true and will be proven true a decade from now.

I'm willing to wait. If I'm wrong, well, then I guess Dear Wiggo would be a rich man if he took me up on my bet.

Bit of a long wait for the truth 10 years, I have already waited that long for some of the truth about doping in cycling to come out. It's becoming a life time then already.

The bit in bold......you will need to elaborate on this "truth" you proclaim.

I am not going to read back through this thread, life is too short, also too short to hang around for the "truth".

To me anti doping is a lie. Honesty is your best and only anti doping strategy.

 

[ElChingon]

Can you explain to me why you or folks on your team/organization think it's reasonable for a rider to look like this?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...ain-before-starting-the-tour-de-france_288186

Umm...holy sh!t! I think I understand RH's Giro implosion a little better. I understand the caveats of looking at photos and making judgements, and I certainly understand the need to maintain a low body weight. But there's massive muscle-wasting in his arms and legs. The only cyclist I've seen look this bad is Mara Abbott.

I understand squeezing performance out of athletes, but at a certain point not only does it become counterproductive (which appears to be the case here) but it's downright unhealthy. As someone who chooses not to dope in large part for health reasons as much as "honor" reasons, I'd almost rather see an athlete dope if he has to get that lean in order to perform.

So, have you considers a minimum body fat % to race, because I think it would be a good idea (and personally I think it would be a good idea for riders starting a grand tour across the board, all teams).

I think they're going for "The Chicken v2.0" look, the Chicken almost won le Tour with that, so...

 

[blackcat]

Thank you.

you see, thats the thing. 13 is badluck. that is why DeCanio has his 13 upside down on Stolen Underground.

Stolen Underground is the metaophr for The Hog popping DeCanio's cherry.

 

[Benotti69]

That's the thing.... I'm not selling anything. I don't actually care if you guys believe what I'm saying or not. The important part is that what I'm saying is true and will be proven true a decade from now.

I'm willing to wait. If I'm wrong, well, then I guess Dear Wiggo would be a rich man if he took me up on my bet.

Yet you keep coming back and trying.

 

[Cycle Chic]

body fat

Can you explain to me why you or folks on your team/organization think it's reasonable for a rider to look like this?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...ain-before-starting-the-tour-de-france_288186

Umm...holy sh!t! I think I understand RH's Giro implosion a little better. I understand the caveats of looking at photos and making judgements, and I certainly understand the need to maintain a low body weight. But there's massive muscle-wasting in his arms and legs. The only cyclist I've seen look this bad is Mara Abbott.

I understand squeezing performance out of athletes, but at a certain point not only does it become counterproductive (which appears to be the case here) but it's downright unhealthy. As someone who chooses not to dope in large part for health reasons as much as "honor" reasons, I'd almost rather see an athlete dope if he has to get that lean in order to perform.

So, have you considers a minimum body fat % to race, because I think it would be a good idea (and personally I think it would be a good idea for riders starting a grand tour across the board, all teams).

And HE still hasnt responded to this !!

 

[rinse clear]

10 years is a long time in pro sport, we all want to believe you mr Vaughters, but cycling problem is creditability. That can only be resolved if you start speaking some of the truths, we know you in a difficult spot, hard spot. But saying 10 year wait, considering alot bad stuff it gone on alot will give up hope that things are changing.

 

[lean mean &green]

nevermind

.........

 

[lean mean &green]

I'll delete this if it hasn't been posted already. Creepy.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...s-talking-about-moving-cycling-forward_287358

JV buddying up to LA is an interesting develpment. i can't believe it hasn't generated more debate in here.

T&R is a waste of time. it's too hard to organize and cycling's problems didn't happen in isolation so i don't see a way in which it can't shed light on other big money sports which REALLY means it ain't gonna happen. never was going to happen. all due respect to those like ashendon suggesting it for genuine reasons but it's just PR fluff at this point. it might even be taking attention away from discussing real and sensible solutions that matter more.

one bright spot tho, it doesn't need to happen. we know what everyone's been up to. just make the necessary changes, WADA's recent suggestions are a good place to start. let's get a transparent process including the financials, independent testing/results management, a more robust passport, increased random OOC testing, etc.

we don't need T&R for any of that. just put our big boy pants on and fix what's broken.

 

[hiero2]

. . .

I am not going to read back through this thread, life is too short, also too short to hang around for the "truth". . .

Hmmm - you can use the thread search to just pick out JV's posts in the thread - I don't think you are giving him an honest chance if you don't at least read the answers he has already given.

 

[zachateseverything]

I think STRAVA is great. Competition without risk of embarrassment or pressure. Just folks striving to go faster.

or the risk of a CAT5 taking them out on a flat, straight, section of smooth pavement.