JV talks, sort of

[jw1979]

Can you explain to me why you or folks on your team/organization think it's reasonable for a rider to look like this?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...ain-before-starting-the-tour-de-france_288186

Umm...holy sh!t! I think I understand RH's Giro implosion a little better. I understand the caveats of looking at photos and making judgements, and I certainly understand the need to maintain a low body weight. But there's massive muscle-wasting in his arms and legs. The only cyclist I've seen look this bad is Mara Abbott.

I understand squeezing performance out of athletes, but at a certain point not only does it become counterproductive (which appears to be the case here) but it's downright unhealthy. As someone who chooses not to dope in large part for health reasons as much as "honor" reasons, I'd almost rather see an athlete dope if he has to get that lean in order to perform.

So, have you considers a minimum body fat % to race, because I think it would be a good idea (and personally I think it would be a good idea for riders starting a grand tour across the board, all teams).

you didn't ask me, but i'd like to take a stab at it.

it's "reasonable" to look like that because they are competing at the very highest level of endurance sport to see who is fastest, not who is the healthiest. you say "at a certain point...it's downright unhealthy." that is correct, but it's not counterproductive to their goals. that is the point where runners and cyclists are at their absolute fastest; when they have gotten lean enough to be deemed unhealthy.

there are plenty of physicians who have gone on record stating that athletes like RH would in fact be healthier, in terms of vitality, if they were doping conservatively, but that's not how the game is supposedly being played these days. instead, you have to roll the dice and get lean enough to the point of not being healthy if you want any chance of winning a GT. RH didn't go into the Giro shooting for anything aside from the top step in Brescia, and that's the gamble you have to take these days if you want to do without aid from the pharmaceutical industry.

hindsight would indicate he went in about 2 pounds too light. nibali's tt today would also indicate it probably wouldn't have mattered even if he did roll out of Naples a kilo heavier.

 

[lean mean &green]

you didn't ask me, but i'd like to take a stab at it.

you probably shouldn't have.

the poster you're responding to is knowledgeable on the subject. he's asking b/c there needs to be some compromise, even on the razor's edge of world class human performance.

 

[blackcat]

you didn't ask me, but i'd like to take a stab at it.

it's "reasonable" to look like that because they are competing at the very highest level of endurance sport to see who is fastest, not who is the healthiest. you say "at a certain point...it's downright unhealthy." that is correct, but it's not counterproductive to their goals. that is the point where runners and cyclists are at their absolute fastest; when they have gotten lean enough to be deemed unhealthy.

there are plenty of physicians who have gone on record stating that athletes like RH would in fact be healthier, in terms of vitality, if they were doping conservatively, but that's not how the game is supposedly being played these days. instead, you have to roll the dice and get lean enough to the point of not being healthy if you want any chance of winning a GT. RH didn't go into the Giro shooting for anything aside from the top step in Brescia, and that's the gamble you have to take these days if you want to do without aid from the pharmaceutical industry.

hindsight would indicate he went in about 2 pounds too light. nibali's tt today would also indicate it probably wouldn't have mattered even if he did roll out of Naples a kilo heavier.

is not 131313 hypothesising that at some point, there is a negative economy. shout out lebanese economist nouri el roubini

that includes a risk quotient. closer to the bone you dial it in, risk expands exponentially

 

[blackcat]

you probably shouldn't have.

the poster you're responding to is knowledgeable on the subject. he's asking b/c there needs to be some compromise, even on the razor's edge of world class human performance.

the declining economy of that last 2 or 3kgs excised to max out your power/weight... it aint an ergo test in a lab which wins you a GT GC

 

[Granville57]

Can you explain to me why you or folks on your team/organization think it's reasonable for a rider to look like this?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...ain-before-starting-the-tour-de-france_288186

Umm...holy sh!t! I think I understand RH's Giro implosion a little better. I understand the caveats of looking at photos and making judgements, and I certainly understand the need to maintain a low body weight. But there's massive muscle-wasting in his arms and legs. The only cyclist I've seen look this bad is Mara Abbott.

Oh, c'mon now, fatty.

Just Mara? All the kool kidz are doing it these day.

New era, rice cakes, beet juice, no gluten, etc...

Duh.

 

[Gregga]

New era, rice cakes, beet juice, no gluten, etc...

Duh.

Dr Ferrari himself call them "the prototypes of the latest generation"

"Wiggins and Hesjedal, along with Froome and Gesink, the prototypes of the latest generation of riders whose fragility I had already pointed out (see comment for the TdF of 07/24/12), that are the first to pay the price for such weather conditions, inevitably having to quit the Giro ."
http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=135

From a man who knows a lot about "prototypes"...
Just as if he meant the had gone too far in decreasing their fat % to increase their w/kg
Weird...

 

[horsinabout]

New era, rice cakes, beet juice, no gluten, etc...

Duh.

He got muscles......

 

[Granville57]

CVV talks, sort of
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vande-velde-i-prefer-to-lead-by-example-than-speak-out

The Garmin-Sharp team has tried to protect the riders from probing questions, refusing several interview requests from Cyclingnews during the spring.

I had to give up the Olympic Games, the world championships, I had six months with no salary.

JV, why the interview refusals?

 

[thehog]

Dr Ferrari himself call them "the prototypes of the latest generation"

"Wiggins and Hesjedal, along with Froome and Gesink, the prototypes of the latest generation of riders whose fragility I had already pointed out (see comment for the TdF of 07/24/12), that are the first to pay the price for such weather conditions, inevitably having to quit the Giro ."
http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=135

From a man who knows a lot about "prototypes"...
Just as if he meant the had gone too far in decreasing their fat % to increase their w/kg
Weird...

What Ferrari actually means is that the weather is a known unknown. It's not controllable. So account 1-2% fat for that variable. You'll only know the weather 10-20 days out with little accuracy. 5 days at with probability.

Ferrari is a believer in strength before weight loss. Build up the mass first before you start eating away at it.

 

[BroDeal]

 

[Ferminal]

15 W/kg!!!!

 

[mewmewmew13]

Tejay looked about as skinny as I've ever seen him

...someone else can post a pic

 

[Merckx index]

15 W/kg!!!!

Would you believe 18,000 watts/kg.?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=575652&highlight=cricket#post575652

 

[BroDeal]

Would you believe 18,000 watts/kg.?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=575652&highlight=cricket#post575652

Wow! That is only slightly less than some of the Colombian climbers Ryo is always hyping.

 

[Benotti69]

CVV talks, sort of
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vande-velde-i-prefer-to-lead-by-example-than-speak-out

JV, why the interview refusals?

JV, why does CVdV mention that doping is never discussed at Garmin?

I would've thought it would be discussed especially to clear the air and so people can freely ask questions to avoid the pitfalls.

 

[hrotha]

Vande Velde is full of shɨt. I don't know how many of you watched the Spanish documentary series Informe Robinson on David Millar, which aired not long before the reasoned decision, and in which VdV said he had never touched the hot sauce.

 

[The Hitch]

Millar has a documentary series about him?

 

[hrotha]

Millar has a documentary series about him?

Nah, only one episode. They do a documentary on a different subject for every show.

 

[blackcat]

Vande Velde is full of shɨt. I don't know how many of you watched the Spanish documentary series Informe Robinson on David Millar, which aired not long before the reasoned decision, and in which VdV said he had never touched tue hot sauce.

anecdote may be apocryphal, but mrs vdv was not happy with the hgh in her fridge

 

[maltiv]

And HE still hasnt responded to this !!

Woah. He looks so unnaturally thin. He even looks worse than Wiggins really.

The advantage for guys of small build like Contador and Nibali is that they can be very light without needing to have a dangerously low fat percentage.

 

[goggalor]

I had to give up the Olympic Games, the world championships, I had six months with no salary.

Heartbreaking.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Heartbreaking.

One needs to start CVV missed salary fund?

 

[ToreBear]

Vande Velde is full of shɨt. I don't know how many of you watched the Spanish documentary series Informe Robinson on David Millar, which aired not long before the reasoned decision, and in which VdV said he had never touched the hot sauce.

I think they were instructed not to say anything until after the reasoned decision. I don't remember the details so my memory may be in error. Annyway it seems odd to do a tell all for Spanish TV when the reasoned decision is around the corner.

 

[hrotha]

I think they were instructed not to say anything until after the reasoned decision. I don't remember the details so my memory may be in error. Annyway it seems odd to do a tell all for Spanish TV when the reasoned decision is around the corner.

There's a difference between not talking about your own doping and explicitly saying you were always clean.

 

[ToreBear]

There's a difference between not talking about your own doping and explicitly saying you were always clean.

Do you know the questions he was asked, the framing of the questions etc.? Not talking about it might not have been an option. Also I think these cyclists are so used to lying about it, that a cross my heart and hope to die reply, or on my mothers grave etc is the easiest thing for them to say with a strait face.

Thats why I don't take what they say that seriously. There are so many factors involved in the process from their mouths to my ears and eyes that it's mostly pointless. Doper or not, they all say the same thing anyway once their words are processed through the differing filters.

Unless they say something unexpected of course, that gets my attention.