JV talks, sort of

[Benotti69]

Proper quotes would be fine, but I have no idea what Dekker in 07 has to do with a direct link to UCI.

It is a proper quote by a journalist. He used Twitter.

Yes, yet you were the one who started discussing Rasmussen (& linking it to Sky!!) - so........

you may have missed it but Rasmussen outed JVs star pupil, who has now told porkies about when he stopped doping.

So........

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It is a proper quote by a journalist. He used Twitter.



you may have missed it but Rasmussen outed JVs star pupil, who has now told porkies about when he stopped doping.

So........

Due to the fact you speak in tongues and are not saying specifically who or what then indeed I have missed it - please clarify.

 

[Netserk]

Due to the fact you speak in tongues and are not saying specifically who or what then indeed I have missed it - please clarify.

I think it's obvious that he's referring to RH.

edit: I don't think Rabo had a 'direct link' to UCI. However the 2005 chat between Lienders and Zarzoli is interesting (have been linked to in this thread edit2: or the ras thread.).

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think it's obvious that he's referring to RH.

I did think that first but if so, then Benotti is wrong - so then I thought it might be TD, as that is who the tweet/quote referenced.
But that is the great thing about being deliberately vague.

 

[Netserk]

I did think that first but if so, then Benotti is wrong - so then I thought it might be TD, as that is who the tweet/quote referenced.
But that is the great thing about being deliberately vague.

Well he hasn't said when exactly he stopped himself, but according to JV it was '04 OG.

 

[Benotti69]

I did think that first but if so, then Benotti is wrong - so then I thought it might be TD, as that is who the tweet/quote referenced.
But that is the great thing about being deliberately vague.

Vague, Jonathan Vague.........

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Vague, Jonathan Vague.........

If I knew what you were on about, then we may have a civil discussion about it. But I assume you are being deliberately vague and now deflecting because it would result in you being corrected on a few things.

As for JV, he answered a lot of questions on twitter, nothing vague about when RH stopped or what will be his fate if its shown he was dishonest.

 

[Benotti69]

If I knew what you were on about, then we may have a civil discussion about it. But I assume you are being deliberately vague and now deflecting because it would result in you being corrected on a few things.

Humour, humour.

You want to get serious, go and interview Rasmussen, Hesejedal, JV, Leinders, otherwise get off the pedantic buzz and stop splitting hairs in posts on a cycling forum.

As for JV, he answered a lot of questions on twitter, nothing vague about when RH stopped or what will be his fate if its shown he was dishonest.

So posting a pic of mickey mouse and minnie dead is not a vague threat of killing his wife and committing suicide?

RH was dishonest. Why enter the biggest doping culture in sport and say no? Not possible, he would've been sent packing or worse lost his marbles riding in a pack full of dopers.

Will JV sack him? I doubt it, it will throw the Giro win out the window and possible sponsors along with it. MBA means business not morals.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Humour, humour.

You want to get serious, go and interview Rasmussen, Hesejedal, JV, Leinders, otherwise get off the pedantic buzz and stop splitting hairs in posts on a cycling forum.

Ah, that is exactly what a forum is, someone writes something and other people read it and have the opportunity to query it.

So posting a pic of mickey mouse and minnie dead is not a vague threat of killing his wife and committing suicide?

RH was dishonest. Why enter the biggest doping culture in sport and say no? Not possible, he would've been sent packing or worse lost his marbles riding in a pack full of dopers.

Will JV sack him? I doubt it, it will throw the Giro win out the window and possible sponsors along with it. MBA means business not morals.

This is your opinion, right?
You are entitled to it - but you have no basis for suggesting it and JV has been clear on what he will do if RH has in fact lied, as much as you want it so, thats not vague.

 

[the sceptic]

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 5 m

Sad to see all these guys Rasmussen named scrambling to deny the truth. But the system, as it is, would spit them out if they admitted.

But the controlled confession/fake apology is better? Equally bad imo. The Rasmussen way is the only way to move things forward.

 

[sniper]

As for JV, he answered a lot of questions on twitter, nothing vague about when RH stopped or what will be his fate if its shown he was dishonest.

first he vouched for hesjedal's 100% truthfulness ("needless to say"), clarifying the next day that hesjedal would be out if shown to have lied.
You could call that vague. Or backtracking. Nothing wrong with changing your mind, but do note that that second tweet ("to clarify") came only after a series of tweets from others calling BS on Hesjedal's public confession.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

first he vouched for hesjedal's 100% truthfulness ("needless to say"), clarifying the next day that hesjedal would be out if shown to have lied.
You could call that vague. Or backtracking. Nothing wrong with changing your mind, but do note that that second tweet ("to clarify") came only after a series of tweets from others calling BS on Hesjedal's public confession.

Which is not vague.
Especially as he added the qualifier of under oath.

Not has he backtracked. Nor has he changed his mind.
He was quite clear when asked what RHs fate will be (as well as others on his team) if they have lied.

 

[Benotti69]

Ah, that is exactly what a forum is, someone writes something and other people read it and have the opportunity to query it.

Query the tone of the post or the argument, discussion but to pick out half a sentence and get pedantic on the minutae, nope not for me.

This is your opinion, right?
You are entitled to it - but you have no basis for suggesting it and JV has been clear on what he will do if RH has in fact lied, as much as you want it so, thats not vague.

 

[Benotti69]

But the controlled confession/fake apology is better? Equally bad imo. The Rasmussen way is the only way to move things forward.

JV is struggling with this. RH scrambed to deny he doped at Disco and Phonak.

What was that " a little (for over a year) and a long time ago( so it fits outside SOL).........

Why do these guys think the fans are stupid? It is no wonder cycling is not a bigger sport when these morons are participating in the sport!!!!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Query the tone of the post or the argument, discussion but to pick out half a sentence and get pedantic on the minutae, nope not for me.

The tone? Substance of your posts is the problem. Always has been.

And just so I am not vague, I will query what I want to query.

You post what you wish, I do not attempt to stop you but if I find something that makes little sense or that requires clarification - I will ask you.

 

[blackcat]

Vague, Jonathan Vague.........

bingo.

I think we have a knew nickname.

Jonathan with a strong g. unlike his benchpress.

Jonathan Vague. Basically like an anagram when you assume it is riding on the Garmin clean cycling penalty. drop a h and a trs.

 

[blackcat]

being a cycling team manager you get a holster full of asterisks. They are like your get out of jail free cards.

If a cat has 9 lives, and I do, I reckon Jonny Vee has only one or two asterisks left in his armoury. Use them wisely.

 

[blackcat]

edit: I don't think Rabo had a 'direct link' to UCI. However the 2005 chat between Lienders and Zarzoli is interesting (have been linked to in this thread edit2: or the ras thread.).

Verbuggen is Dutch dude.

Surely they had him on a hotline/speeddial

 

[Netserk]

Which is not vague.
Especially as he added the qualifier of under oath.

Not has he backtracked. Nor has he changed his mind.
He was quite clear when asked what RHs fate will be (as well as others on his team) if they have lied.

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/395632070208544768

@debroy62 @ryder_hesjedal Deb,sport had a very different landscape+ethos 10 yrs ago. In his time with us he's been clean. Bet my life on it

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/395635979819962369

@lescombes1998 @debroy62 @ryder_hesjedal ok, then I'd bet my vas deferens.... How's that?

 

[Benotti69]

The tone? Substance of your posts is the problem. Always has been.

And just so I am not vague, I will query what I want to query.

You post what you wish, I do not attempt to stop you but if I find something that makes little sense or that requires clarification - I will ask you.

It this an admission of trolling dressed up as something else....seems like it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It this an admission of trolling dressed up as something else....seems like it.

No, it isn't, thanks for asking.

 

[Benotti69]

No, it isn't, thanks for asking.

to be pedantic, i wasn't asking.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

to be pedantic, i wasn't asking.

And as usual, you were wrong, and I was correcting you.
You're welcome.

 

[skidmark]

The more I think about Ras' revelations, and the way it's probably going to play out in terms of people implicated responding in different unsatisfying ways (we have Hesjedal's limited confession and Friere's outraged denial to start), the more it convinces me that there needs to be a truth and whatever process. The great thing, as a fan, about the Reasoned Decision was that it gave us names, dates, and a variety of perspectives on an era we had (quite correct) suspicions about for years. Not having that in this case is frustrating... I guess the Reasoned Decision was so unique because so many riders testified that when it came out, they each had to give public statements to explain themselves. With one guy accusing a bunch of others like Ras, it's easy to deny if the tide of confessions isn't washing over you (although I don't even think the uninformed public has a shred of belief in those denials anymore, it's just probably easiest from a personal consequence standpoint not to confess and assume the ADAs aren't going to spend resources tracking down a retired rider for something long past).

Either way, I would love it if it all just friggin' came out. I have little faith in that happening, but I have hope.

sidenote: does anyone know if Dekker has a detailed, publicly available testimonial? I've never seen or heard of one, and I know he's told anti-doping authorities 'everything', so that would be really interesting to peruse.

 

[Benotti69]

The more I think about Ras' revelations, and the way it's probably going to play out in terms of people implicated responding in different unsatisfying ways (we have Hesjedal's limited confession and Friere's outraged denial to start), the more it convinces me that there needs to be a truth and whatever process. The great thing, as a fan, about the Reasoned Decision was that it gave us names, dates, and a variety of perspectives on an era we had (quite correct) suspicions about for years. Not having that in this case is frustrating... I guess the Reasoned Decision was so unique because so many riders testified that when it came out, they each had to give public statements to explain themselves. With one guy accusing a bunch of others like Ras, it's easy to deny if the tide of confessions isn't washing over you (although I don't even think the uninformed public has a shred of belief in those denials anymore, it's just probably easiest from a personal consequence standpoint not to confess and assume the ADAs aren't going to spend resources tracking down a retired rider for something long past).

Either way, I would love it if it all just friggin' came out. I have little faith in that happening, but I have hope.

sidenote: does anyone know if Dekker has a detailed, publicly available testimonial? I've never seen or heard of one, and I know he's told anti-doping authorities 'everything', so that would be really interesting to peruse.

T&R wont work.

Look at Hesjedal's confession, not admitting to doping at Disco or Phonak! No one with an ounce of sense and knowledge of the sport believes he would stop doping after rabo U23s