JV talks, sort of

[sniper]

Who are we talking about here, Vandevelde, Zabriskie, Barry?? Well Barry moved to T-Mobile where Bob Stapelton had just introduced a stricter anti-doping policy. Why a few guys like Kloden, Kessler jumped ship to Astana.

The other two I don't know but then why did Kevin Livingston and JV walk away from their career's when still relatively young???

fair point re Barry.

 

[Ferminal]

Lucky Rabo stopped doping in 2008 after the Rasmussen debacle the year before, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for an average clean athlete to match Menchov in a GT.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

so a number of garmin riders avant la lettre went clean in 06.
how come they all quitted in 06? rabo continued doping without getting caught.
haven't heard one single plausible explanation for three garmin riders involved in the usada investigation quitting in 06.
or wait, i have, a three lettered one. SOL.
nobrainer.
i don't see why anybody wouldd allow such BS to go uncontested.

We have been over this before.

The fallout from Puerto wasn't just that a major doping Doc of 50+ riders had to curtail his doping,but the big one was Liberty pulling their sponsorship.

That was what gave the teams pause for thought, it was why first T-mobile pulled Ullrich just before the 06 Tour, why CSC followed suit with Basso.
Its why the teams started talking about implementing their own anti-doping measures. Did it stop everyone? Of course not - but it certainly changed things.... and then Landis went positive...

 

[martinvickers]

@Vaughters: Last few days I've felt a bit like this: http://t.co/jtVOuHwQ1Z

a little troubling...

The fact it's mickey mouse hanging suggests, to me, that it's not a Santambrogio cry for help so much. More an expression of exasperation - "i'm the good guy (mickey) here, ffs"

Could be wrong, mind

It's only a bike race, at the end of the day.

 

[martinvickers]

We have been over this before.

The fallout from Puerto wasn't just that a major doping Doc of 50+ riders had to curtail his doping,but the big one was Liberty pulling their sponsorship.

That was what gave the teams pause for thought, it was why first T-mobile pulled Ullrich just before the 06 Tour, why CSC followed suit with Basso.
Its why the teams started talking about implementing their own anti-doping measures. Did it stop everyone? Of course not - but it certainly changed things.... and then Landis went positive...

Good summary, Doc. Never mind the EPO years, he period 2005-2010 will require a book someday. A very mixed up era, with odd pulls in different directions. Some evidence of cleaning up. Some of doubling down.

Funny, in retrospect how it almost waiting for LA to go before it got...'complicated'

 

[MarkvW]

We have been over this before.

The fallout from Puerto wasn't just that a major doping Doc of 50+ riders had to curtail his doping,but the big one was Liberty pulling their sponsorship.

That was what gave the teams pause for thought, it was why first T-mobile pulled Ullrich just before the 06 Tour, why CSC followed suit with Basso.
Its why the teams started talking about implementing their own anti-doping measures. Did it stop everyone? Of course not - but it certainly changed things.... and then Landis went positive...

Rabo, Astana, Discovery, CSC, Lampre, Gerolsteiner to name just a few, would suggest that doping continued unabated.

 

[mewmewmew13]

The fact it's mickey mouse hanging suggests, to me, that it's not a Santambrogio cry for help so much. More an expression of exasperation - "i'm the good guy (mickey) here, ffs"

Could be wrong, mind

It's only a bike race, at the end of the day.

hope so..
its gruesome and not funny

 

[martinvickers]

hope so..
its gruesome and not funny

He's more or less confirmed that on twitter. My pop psychology must be getting better!

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/397140599796543489

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Not sure doping is anything on par with sucide.

He is a little dramatic at times.

End of the day he has his team, a new sponsor and a whole lot more.

Others don't even have half of that.

Sucide? I want to like him but he really is OTT at times.

Thank you. I just wanted to write, "drama queen". You have been far more gentle.

 

[thehog]

Thank you. I just wanted to write, "drama queen". You have been far more gentle.

Reminds me of a 16 year old girl, not in love, in love, not in love, he hates me, he loves me, wants me, doesn't want me, why can't I be loved type-a thing.

He needs to grow up and take it on the chin. His rider doped, lied and only admitted to it when convenient.

Stop pretending its all about you.

Spare a thought for the guys who didn't dope that Ryder beat. Show them some f***** respect but shutting the f*** up and just move on.

Sucide is neither funny or black humor. It's just stupid. He needs to move on.

What is he, 16?

What a tool.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Rabo, Astana, Discovery, CSC, Lampre, Gerolsteiner to name just a few, would suggest that doping continued unabated.

How does it suggest it continued unabated?

We know from Rasmussen not everyone on the 07 TdF was on a heavy program - that straight away contrasts with T-mobile all getting BBs in 06, or USPS 04.
Vino was caught in 07. Gerolsteiner, they had 2 guys caught in 08, but the rest appeared to have been delighted to hear a CERA test was available.

 

[MarkvW]

How does it suggest it continued unabated?

We know from Rasmussen not everyone on the 07 TdF was on a heavy program - that straight away contrasts with T-mobile all getting BBs in 06, or USPS 04.
Vino was caught in 07. Gerolsteiner, they had 2 guys caught in 08, but the rest appeared to have been delighted to hear a CERA test was available.

We're light-years apart on this if you're going to be distinguishing between "heavy programs" and "light programs."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

We're light-years apart on this if you're going to be distinguishing between "heavy programs" and "light programs."

Well, you were the one to suggest it continued "unabated".

 

[MarkvW]

Well, you were the one to suggest it continued "unabated".

Ah, the invitation to quibble. I decline.

 

[Benotti69]

That's what LeMond must have been on then.

Didn't you claim before that the French stopped doping in 2001. What USPS guys stopped in 2006???

And Rabobank weren't full on doping. Rasmussen clearly states that not all of the 2007 Rabobank team were on the heavy stuff which was EPO/Blood doping. So that means they were on the same type of stuff that was floating around in the 80s.

Good man, keep thinking this sport is not a cesspit.

Mike Kaltoft Jensen ‏@MikeKaltoft 6h
Dekker received 2.000 units of DynEPO every 2nd day during 2007 Tour de France (page 12)

dont' remember guys taking epo in the 80's.......


The biggest thing i take from Rasmussen's book is not the levels of doping but that another team had a direct link to UCI to hide their doping, like USPS. Looks like Sky was plugged into that link for their TdF wins.

JV tweeting shíte about suicide. The guy has stated plenty of times he can stop working in cycling and go work for a top 100 company and not look back.

JV tried to play the fence, well it backfired. The sport is riddled through from top to bottom with this doping crap, what did he expect, he was smarter than everyone else? Really JV, you were the smartest guy in the sport????

 

[Catwhoorg]

We haven't seen the relevant section from the book - but from the snippets it appears Weltz was asked by his team CSC to buy EPO in Spain, (where I believe you can purchase it at a pharmacy) and bring it to Luxemburg, that IMO is not a dealer.

A dealer would to me would be someone who buys drugs and distributes them for the express purpose of profit.
(The amusing part is the riders appear to have stiffed him for the bill)

By the legal definition (UK and I think US), anyone who passes on drugs (at cost or even free) is a "dealer".

 

[thehog]

He's more or less confirmed that on twitter. My pop psychology must be getting better!

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/397140599796543489

More to the point, through his theatrics, he has managed to deflect the spot light off Ryder.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Good man, keep thinking this sport is not a cesspit.



dont' remember guys taking epo in the 80's.......


The biggest thing i take from Rasmussen's book is not the levels of doping but that another team had a direct link to UCI to hide their doping, like USPS. Looks like Sky was plugged into that link for their TdF wins.

You have read the book? Cool - where is the direct link, I have seen bits where Zarzoli called Maasen to get their Doc to call in for a chat.
Same as Hamilton and others.

JV tweeting shíte about suicide. The guy has stated plenty of times he can stop working in cycling and go work for a top 100 company and not look back.

JV tried to play the fence, well it backfired. The sport is riddled through from top to bottom with this doping crap, what did he expect, he was smarter than everyone else? Really JV, you were the smartest guy in the sport????

I see normal service has resumed.
Does the book mention JV, or show anything that we did not already know or suspect about people?

 

[Benotti69]

More to the point, through his theatrics, he has managed to deflect the spot light off Ryder.

We will see how effective that will have been should Bruyneel, del Moral or Celaya feel like confirming some info.

 

[Benotti69]

You have read the book? Cool - where is the direct link, I have seen bits where Zarzoli called Maasen to get their Doc to call in for a chat.
Same as Hamilton and others.

this not good enough for you? A danish journalist posting quotes?

Mike Kaltoft Jensen ‏
Dekker received 2.000 units of DynEPO every 2nd day during 2007 Tour de France (page 12)

I see normal service has resumed.
Does the book mention JV, or show anything that we did not already know or suspect about people?

This is the JV thread. It is not the JV/Rasmussen book thread.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

By the legal definition (UK and I think US), anyone who passes on drugs (at cost or even free) is a "dealer".

No idea, and I don't really care, but legally they differentiate between mules and dealers. And our resident lawyers could break the internet discussing whether it is a legal case in the first place, which laws were broken, where .... And then there is SOL.

But on a personal level, I don't believe anyone who aids or abets the doping in such a way has anything to do with the sport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

this not good enough for you? A danish journalist posting quotes?

Proper quotes would be fine, but I have no idea what Dekker in 07 has to do with a direct link to UCI.

t

This is the JV thread. It is not the JV/Rasmussen book thread.

Yes, yet you were the one who started discussing Rasmussen (& linking it to Sky!!) - so........

 

[Netserk]

The book doesn't mention JV a single time.

 

[Catwhoorg]

No idea, and I don't really care, but legally they differentiate between mules and dealers. And our resident lawyers could break the internet discussing whether it is a legal case in the first place, which laws were broken, where .... And then there is SOL.

But on a personal level, I don't believe anyone who aids or abets the doping in such a way has anything to do with the sport.

100% agree.
Dealer, mule, or just someone who facilitates by storing drugs bought by others, and hosting EPO injection parties..

Get them all gone.

 

[thehog]

The book doesn't mention JV a single time.

Can JV do something about this? Get his name in print?

Maybe he can hit Twitter and published just as many words as the book?