JV talks, sort of

[sniper]

All the details that have come out about Garmin staff and riders all happened before they joined Garmin.

Again, you are the one who is assuming they are 'pretending'.

i'm more referring to gratuite statements like "doping aint what the cool kids do anymore", or "dopers are now ostracized by the peloton", etc.
or daniel martin "ryder won the giro clean", danielson "so happy to have the chance to ride in this clean new generation", "vaughters is a visionary", etc., all kind of gratuite statements don't you think?
i don't hear that many gratuite statements from other teams.
many other teams apparently prefer not to jump on the high horse, for good reasons.

 

[jens_attacks]

Ive no problem answering good questions - no, nothing has changed IMO.
Most of the stuff is old news or not surprising news. The one part I don't get is RH claiming that he stopped in 04, but JV has said if people have lied he will fire them - thats very significant and quite a bold thing to say.

the move is on bruyneel
good luck ryder

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So, the consensus among those who would like to rid cycling of doping is that "dealers" should be banned from the sport for life.

JV is outspoken about cleaning up cycling.

JV knows of Weltz's history both from being teammates with him, and I would assume from Garmin's in-house and highly lauded "confession sessions".

Now, JV is trying to control the narrative by dropping Weltz's CSC epo runs JUST prior to their disclosure in the Chicken's book. Much to the chagrin of the author, I might add.

JV, himself, is rapidly eroding any credibility he bought through Garmin's public and vociferous anti-doping stance...

We haven't seen the relevant section from the book - but from the snippets it appears Weltz was asked by his team CSC to buy EPO in Spain, (where I believe you can purchase it at a pharmacy) and bring it to Luxemburg, that IMO is not a dealer.

A dealer would to me would be someone who buys drugs and distributes them for the express purpose of profit.
(The amusing part is the riders appear to have stiffed him for the bill)

 

[sniper]

Firstly - I don't think he is playing the martyr. (although I havnt been up to date on twitter etc). He is trying to explain a difficult story that actually has little to do with him.

Ive no problem answering good questions - no, nothing has changed IMO.
Most of the stuff is old news or not surprising news. The one part I don't get is RH claiming that he stopped in 04, but JV has said if people have lied he will fire them - thats very significant and quite a bold thing to say.

to be fair, he didn't say that precisely.
he said if people were found to have lied.
small but perhaps significant difference.

also, a bit odd that the day before that statement JV vouched through twitter for the truthfulness of hesjedal's underoath declaration.


generally (i've said this a couple of times already, but haven't heard a satisfying answer), i think it's odd that usada vouched for the truthfulness of hesjedal's disclosure.
shouldn't they remain impartial on that as long as the investigations are ongoing?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

We haven't seen the relevant section from the book - but from the snippets it appears Weltz was asked by his team CSC to buy EPO in Spain, (where I believe you can purchase it at a pharmacy) and bring it to Luxemburg, that IMO is not a dealer.

A dealer would to me would be someone who buys drugs and distributes them for the express purpose of profit.
(The amusing part is the riders appear to have stiffed him for the bill)

He may have ponied up the money to avoid it tying back to CSC, but it doesn't sound like Weltz was doing it for free. He may have marked it up, he may not have, but I'm sure CSC paid him for the run if not the drugs. The "dealer" moniker is splitting hairs.

I'm more talking about JV's actions (and their ethical and moral implications to his PR campaign) through trying to diffuse the giant *** bomb that fell into his lap over Chicken's book.

 

[MarkvW]

We haven't seen the relevant section from the book - but from the snippets it appears Weltz was asked by his team CSC to buy EPO in Spain, (where I believe you can purchase it at a pharmacy) and bring it to Luxemburg, that IMO is not a dealer.

A dealer would to me would be someone who buys drugs and distributes them for the express purpose of profit.
(The amusing part is the riders appear to have stiffed him for the bill)

You have a very restrictive view of dealer. If Weltz was paid by his team to purchase and distribute dope, then he's a dealer in my book. He's not smuggling drugs internationally out of the kindness of his heart.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

to be fair, he didn't say that precisely.
he said if people were found to have lied.
small but perhaps significant difference.

Not sure what is significant in that?

He said:
"Clarification: if one if my guys is found to have lied to authorities, timeline or otherwise: fired. Nasty truth, I'll stand by. Not lying."

If its found out they lied to the authorities, they are gone.

also odd that the day before that statement JV vouched through twitter for the truthfulness of hesjedal's underoath declaration.

generally (i've said this a couple of times already, but haven't heard a satisfying answer), i think it's odd that usada vouched for the truthfulness of hesjedal's disclosure.
shouldn't they remain impartial on that as long as the investigations are ongoing?

Why?

They are the one's in the best position to know if Ryder (or anyone else's) testimony is true or not because they have plenty of other testimonies to compare and contrast it with. It would appear that they have nothing to contradict what he has said.

 

[Netserk]

We haven't seen the relevant section from the book - but from the snippets it appears Weltz was asked by his team CSC to buy EPO in Spain, (where I believe you can purchase it at a pharmacy) and bring it to Luxemburg, that IMO is not a dealer.

A dealer would to me would be someone who buys drugs and distributes them for the express purpose of profit.
(The amusing part is the riders appear to have stiffed him for the bill)

How did you come to that?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You have a very restrictive view of dealer. If Weltz was paid by his team to purchase and distribute dope, then he's a dealer in my book. He's not smuggling drugs internationally out of the kindness of his heart.

Ya, I restrict it to people who deal drugs.

You have broadened it to include a guy asked by his team to buy PEDs for his team because he could get it easily.
I guess I am a dealer too because I bought a buddy an expensive bottle of whisky for them in duty-free.

 

[the sceptic]

Firstly - I don't think he is playing the martyr. (although I havnt been up to date on twitter etc). He is trying to explain a difficult story that actually has little to do with him.

Ive no problem answering good questions - no, nothing has changed IMO.
Most of the stuff is old news or not surprising news. The one part I don't get is RH claiming that he stopped in 04, but JV has said if people have lied he will fire them - thats very significant and quite a bold thing to say.

Im guessing both JV and Ryder want as much distance as possible between the doping and the giro win. And the SOL of course.

So yes, quite a bold move by JV. It will be interesting to see what happens should Bruyneel or someone else spill the beans.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Amgen

10chara.....

Nice 1 Benotti.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Ya, I restrict it to people who deal drugs.

You have broadened it to include a guy asked by his team to buy PEDs for his team because he could get it easily.
I guess I am a dealer too because I bought a buddy an expensive bottle of whisky for them in duty-free.

That's banal.

He procured drugs for illegal use and illegally transported them across international borders. To his own benefit, which I assume would be financial.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How did you come to that?

It was a tweet posted [urlhttp://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1364495&highlight=weltz#post1364495]here[/url] by Benotti upthread;

Mike Kaltoft Jensen ‏@MikeKaltoft 2h
Michael Rasmussen claims that it was current Garmin DS Johnny Weltz that provided EPO to CSC riders in 2002 (via @veloropa)

Rasmussen: Many CSC riders forgot to pay for their EPO which annoyed Johnny (Weltz). It was him who had procured it in Spain (via @veloropa)

Happy to have any details of it corrected

 

[the sceptic]

Shane Stokes ‏@SSbike 3 m

@Vaughters so, can we have an assurance that Phonak year was clear? And Disco? For the record.



Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 1 m

@SSbike I am not privy to the full content of the interview, but I was informed there were no infractions within statute of limitations.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's banal.

He procured drugs for illegal use and illegally transported them across international borders. To his own benefit, which I assume would be financial.

Thats an assumption.

If he went to the pharmacy of his own violation with the intent to buy drugs to sell for a profit - then my view is thats dealing.
But it appears (subject to correction) he was asked by his team to buy and bring the drugs for them. He could have refused, but.....

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Thats an assumption.

If he went to the pharmacy of his own violation with the intent to buy drugs to sell for a profit - then my view is thats dealing.
But it appears (subject to correction) he was asked by his team to buy and bring the drugs for them. He could have refused, but.....

As I said earlier, the "dealer" moniker is splitting hairs.

I'm interested in the ethical/moral implications others feel it may have on JV's PR campaign of "the new generation" etc.

 

[thehog]

Shane Stokes ‏@SSbike 3 m

@Vaughters so, can we have an assurance that Phonak year was clear? And Disco? For the record.



Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 1 m

@SSbike I am not privy to the full content of the interview, but I was informed there were no infractions within statute of limitations.

Dance dance dance to the radio...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Everyone should be watching twitter right now.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Shane Stokes ‏@SSbike 3 m

@Vaughters so, can we have an assurance that Phonak year was clear? And Disco? For the record.



Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 1 m

@SSbike I am not privy to the full content of the interview, but I was informed there were no infractions within statute of limitations.

it would appear JV is in the dark....

 

[the sceptic]

Everyone should be watching twitter right now.

Credit to JV for talking to the people. Too bad he doesnt post here anymore.

 

[Netserk]

Credit to JV for talking to the people. Too bad he doesnt post here anymore.

To be fair to JV, he posted here in June. He might come back later.

 

[Benotti69]

To be fair to JV, he posted here in June. He might come back later.

Only if it works out for him he might. Bruyneel might make Hesjedal and JV look fools when he talks to USADA. But this not telling the public about RH looks bad for a guy who has dedicated his life to anti doping.

 

[pastronef]

Everyone should be watching twitter right now.

I lost my sight to keep track of it the last few days

still waiting for Gerard Vroomen to comment on the matter

 

[mewmewmew13]

Credit to JV for talking to the people. Too bad he doesnt post here anymore.

I don't blame him..
he tries to answer questions and gets blasted with huge gobs of immaturity and 'gotcha' type insinuations..
maybe if some of the inhabitants learned to play nice he would feel more like showing up

just because you're not liking his answers is no excuse to act apesh!!t

 

[hrotha]

I don't blame him..
he tries to answer questions and gets blasted with huge gobs of immaturity and 'gotcha' type insinuations..
maybe if some of the inhabitants learned to play nice he would feel more like showing up

I was trying to be reasonably nice but objective and I still got blocked in the crossfire. I suspect he misunderstood one of my tweets because he was quite touchy at the time.