JV talks, sort of

[the sceptic]

I don't blame him..
he tries to answer questions and gets blasted with huge gobs of immaturity and 'gotcha' type insinuations..
maybe if some of the inhabitants learned to play nice he would feel more like showing up

just because you're not liking his answers is no excuse to act apesh!!t

Yes it might have been better if people didnt use it as an opportunity to score points and troll him. However I do think he also fired back at people sometimes so I think he should be able to deal with it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes it might have been better if people didnt use it as an opportunity to score points and troll him. However I do think he also fired back at people sometimes so I think he should be able to deal with it.

He can deal with fair questions and even skeptical discourse.
But, it is understandable that he will take offense when some directly say he is lying or bring up statements he made ages ago leaving out the context or corrections.

As noted its point scoring and has nothing to do with trying to establish what has actually happened and why. But it's good that is answering some great questions on twitter.

 

[thehog]

He can deal with fair questions and even skeptical discourse.
But, it is understandable that he will take offense when some directly say he is lying or bring up statements he made ages ago leaving out the context or corrections.

As noted its point scoring and has nothing to do with trying to establish what has actually happened and why. But it's good that is answering some great questions on twitter.

That kinda sounds like what you do... like all of the time

Only teasing Doc. You are special

 

[Ferminal]

Now, JV is trying to control the narrative by dropping Weltz's CSC epo runs JUST prior to their disclosure in the Chicken's book. Much to the chagrin of the author, I might add.

Yeh this is the problem, we now have the stand off which Hesjedal avoided. They are now entering the game of "it's our word against his" and "we like our credibility", at least that is what we saw from the tweet a day or so ago.

If (assuming Chicken's version is correct) Weltz can pull the wool over your eyes, who is to say that the others can't too.

 

[thehog]

Yeh this is the problem, we now have the stand off which Hesjedal avoided. They are now entering the game of "it's our word against his" and "we like our credibility", at least that is what we saw from the tweet a day or so ago.

If (assuming Chicken's version is correct) Weltz can pull the wool over your eyes, who is to say that the others can't too.

Correct.

Well it's JV doin' all the talking. H-Town and Weltz are probably both on holiday.

JV keeping it sweet for the new sponsors.

Win win. That MBA sure paid off well

 

[sniper]

My wild guess is garmin have quite a firm backing from usada.
the garmin affidavits were dubious at best and so is hesjedals testimony, yet usada has publicly vouched for their truthfulness, nota bene whilst the investigation is still ongoing and new evidence could still surface.
usada looks all but impartial here.

edit: and if i understood jv correctly, they,ll vouch for weltz as well, i.e. against rasmussen.

 

[Ferminal]

My wild guess is garmin have quite a firm backing from usada.
the garmin affidavits were dubious at best and so is hesjedals testimony, yet usada has publicly vouched for their truthfulness, nota bene whilst the investigation is still ongoing and new evidence could still surface.
usada looks all but impartial here.

I'm more interested in the "investigation" not allowing anyone to say anything. I can only wonder who it is they are investigating and when we will hear about these new violations...

 

[thehog]

My wild guess is garmin have quite a firm backing from usada.
the garmin affidavits were dubious at best and so is hesjedals testimony, yet usada has publicly vouched for their truthfulness, nota bene whilst the investigation is still ongoing and new evidence could still surface.
usada looks all but impartial here.

edit: and if i understood jv correctly, they,ll vouch for weltz as well, i.e. against rasmussen.

USADA have become WADA.

Not sure if that's good or bad.

But JV had Travis on speed dial.

I think the UCI old guards is the new target.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I was trying to be reasonably nice but objective and I still got blocked in the crossfire. I suspect he misunderstood one of my tweets because he was quite touchy at the time.

well...we all have our buttons

 

[sniper]

I don't blame him..
he tries to answer questions and gets blasted with huge gobs of immaturity and 'gotcha' type insinuations..
maybe if some of the inhabitants learned to play nice he would feel more like showing up

just because you're not liking his answers is no excuse to act apesh!!t

I suggest the same treatment be applied to bruyneel and riis.
If we,re lucky they too might show up here someday.

edit, forgot brailsford.
The cynicism he,s received in here is really unfair.
Play nice, guys, or he,ll never show himself in here.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

We haven't seen the relevant section from the book - but from the snippets it appears Weltz was asked by his team CSC to buy EPO in Spain, (where I believe you can purchase it at a pharmacy) and bring it to Luxemburg, that IMO is not a dealer.

A dealer would to me would be someone who buys drugs and distributes them for the express purpose of profit.
(The amusing part is the riders appear to have stiffed him for the bill)

Not quite. Where does it say the team asked him?

In my time at CSC I often spoke to Johnny Weltz about doping. He told me about the Swede Martin Rittsel, who accumulated over 400 UCI points in his time.
"He had the whole apartment full of EPO in Luxembourg". said Johnny. Many of the CSC riders often forgot to pay for their EPO with Rittsel, which Johnny was annoyed about, it was him that had brought it from Spain, and therefore him that footed the bill.

 

[sniper]

dealer or courier, as JMbeaushrimp said, it's hairsplitting. Just ask Prentice:

He also warned that Johnny Weltz, the newly hired road manager, was a reputed drug cheat

http://www.businessweek.com/article...t-s-dot-postal-team-get-charged-with-fraud#p1

Not quite. Where does it say the team asked him?

indeed, it doesn't.


What is interesting is that, whilel Weltz was an excellent doping courier/dealer already at usps, he is said to have sucked at being an actual team director.

But he (Hamilton) also describes an episode where he overhears a conversation in the apartment in Girona between the team profile George Hincapie and sports director Johnny Weltz. He also describes how the paper thin walls of the apartment complex made it possible to hear every word of others' conversations.

- It was natural that Johnny would visit George. George was, after all, one of the team's best riders (...) What is not natural, however, was that Johnny sometimes met up with a white paper bag. You could hear the paper rustle. And when they spoke together privately, they would either whisper or speak Spanish. George and Johnny both spoke fluent Spanish, but it did not make sense to me. We were all on the same team. Why not speak English? (...)
We saw George put a small foil package behind Cokes at the back of the refrigerator. One day shortly thereafter, when George was out, we could not help it. We opened the refrigerator and opened the foil package. We saw syringes and ampoules labeled EPO, writes Tyler Hamilton in the book.

The book describes Tyler Hamilton also how Johnny Weltz even before this experience had distributed suspicious white bags to selected riders after the races.

Tyler Hamilton gives the book also another reason for Johnny Weltz 'departure from the U.S. Postal years after Lance Armstrong came back from his cancer, than you have ever heard.

The reason was, according to Tyler Hamilton, not that the Dane was not ready for 'the full doping package', which has previously been said. Tyler Hamilton claims that Lance Armstrong demanded Dane thrown out because he was not good enough to organize themselves and had a few unfortunate incidents surrounding the race calendars and hotel bookings.

Then said Lance Armstrong, according to Tyler Hamilton, Johnny Weltz as '****ing Johnny Weltz'.

http://translate.google.com/transla...kling/tyler-anklager-ny-dansk-sportsdirektoer

So weltz distributed drugs both at usps and at csc, but sucked hard at directing. Still, Vaughters, with his eye for organization, ends up hiring Weltz.

Weltz, furthermore, still publicly defended Armstrong as late as in 2012.
Repentant? not really.

 

[del1962]

Can someone help me here, Weltz was a redacted name in Emma O'Reilly's affadavit, yet he fully co-operated with USADA, am I missing something?

 

[sniper]

Can someone help me here, Weltz was a redacted name in Emma O'Reilly's affadavit, yet he fully co-operated with USADA, am I missing something?

isn't ryder a redacted name somewhere as well? (or at least rumored to be in Barry's affidavit)

looks as if both ryder and weltz were called in later by usada, after their names had surfaced in other testimonies, but i could be wrong.

 

[del1962]

isn't ryder a redacted name somewhere as well? (or at least rumored to be in Barry's affidavit)

looks as if both ryder and weltz were called in later by usada, after their names had surfaced in other testimonies, but i could be wrong.

Perhaps Weltz like Hejesdal was too periphiral to the LA investigations, he was replaced in 1999 by Brunyeel so perhaps not approached by USADA

 

[Benotti69]

So All the USPS guys stopped in 2006, except Ryder who stopped in 2004 but Rabobank were full on doping!!!

Those in cycing keep trying to sell us these lies time and time again!! If anyone believes that the doping has stopped in 2013, i have some Slipstream oil that can make you climb faster than a doper and you wont test positive

 

[sniper]

So All the USPS guys stopped in 2006, except Ryder who stopped in 2004 but Rabobank were full on doping!!!

Those in cycing keep trying to sell us these lies time and time again!! If anyone believes that the doping has stopped in 2013, i have some Slipstream oil that can make you climb faster than a doper and you wont test positive

Basically when Garmin cleaned up, Leinders' bunch kept at it and remained true to the old school. Wasnt it ex-garmin wiggo whl said we need guys like Leinders.

A worrying number of contradictions sky and garmin ask us to swallow.

 

[mewmewmew13]

@Vaughters: Last few days I've felt a bit like this: http://t.co/jtVOuHwQ1Z

a little troubling...

 

[thehog]

@Vaughters: Last few days I've felt a bit like this: http://t.co/jtVOuHwQ1Z

a little troubling...

Not sure doping is anything on par with sucide.

He is a little dramatic at times.

End of the day he has his team, a new sponsor and a whole lot more.

Others don't even have half of that.

Sucide? I want to like him but he really is OTT at times.

 

[pmcg76]

So All the USPS guys stopped in 2006, except Ryder who stopped in 2004 but Rabobank were full on doping!!!

Those in cycing keep trying to sell us these lies time and time again!! If anyone believes that the doping has stopped in 2013, i have some Slipstream oil that can make you climb faster than a doper and you wont test positive

That's what LeMond must have been on then.

Didn't you claim before that the French stopped doping in 2001. What USPS guys stopped in 2006???

And Rabobank weren't full on doping. Rasmussen clearly states that not all of the 2007 Rabobank team were on the heavy stuff which was EPO/Blood doping. So that means they were on the same type of stuff that was floating around in the 80s.

 

[pmcg76]

Basically when Garmin cleaned up, Leinders' bunch kept at it and remained true to the old school. Wasnt it ex-garmin wiggo whl said we need guys like Leinders.

A worrying number of contradictions sky and garmin ask us to swallow.

Well consider Rasmussen was talking 2007 and Garmin didn't move into the big leagues until 2008, the timeline doesn't match for you.

 

[sniper]

Well consider Rasmussen was talking 2007 and Garmin didn't move into the big leagues until 2008, the timeline doesn't match for you.

so a number of garmin riders avant la lettre went clean in 06.
how come they all quitted in 06? rabo continued doping without getting caught.
haven't heard one single plausible explanation for three garmin riders involved in the usada investigation quitting in 06.
or wait, i have, a three lettered one. SOL.
nobrainer.
i don't see why anybody wouldd allow such BS to go uncontested.

 

[pmcg76]

so a number of garmin riders avant la lettre went clean in 06.
how come they all quitted in 06? rabo continued doping without getting caught.
haven't heard one single plausible explanation for three garmin riders involved in the usada investigation quitting in 06.
or wait, i have, a three lettered one. SOL.
nobrainer.
i don't see why anybody wouldd allow such BS to go uncontested.

Is the SOL not 8 years, they testified in 2012. Basic math sniper,
12 minus 8=4. No brainer you say. I think you nailed that one yourself.

I don't see why anybody would allow your BS go uncontested.

 

[sniper]

Is the SOL not 8 years, they testified in 2012. Basic math sniper,
12 minus 8=4. No brainer you say. I think you nailed that one yourself.

I don't see why anybody would allow your BS go uncontested.

hm. fair point, thanks for the correction. was mixing them up with ryders confession i guess.

anyway, are you seriously entertaining the thought they harmonically quitted in 06, not being in the same team?
would be quite the coincidence.

your BS

don't go all jv/dr.mas on me.
you can correct me anytime, but play the ball.

 

[pmcg76]

hm. fair point. was mixing them up with ryders confession.

anyway, are you seriously entertaining the thought they harmonically quitted in 06, not being in the same team?
would be quite the coincidence. it's still a nobrainer.

Who are we talking about here, Vandevelde, Zabriskie, Barry?? Well Barry moved to T-Mobile where Bob Stapelton had just introduced a stricter anti-doping policy. Why a few guys like Kloden, Kessler jumped ship to Astana.

The other two I don't know but then why did Kevin Livingston and JV walk away from their career's when still relatively young???