JV talks, sort of

[D-Queued]

It's just not pretty, all this Vaughters-UCI love.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...da-managed-program_263968#7XCxChuX9wTg3eIq.99

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-reveal-biological-passport-data-in-defence-of-cycling

Vaughters has been one of the early proponents of the so-called "biological passport" program...
...
"As a whole the race is clean," said Vaughters, who rode with Armstrong on the U.S. Postal Team in 1998 and 1999 before retiring in 2003. "I can't speak to every single athlete, but the probability of the Tour being won by a clean rider is much higher than it being won by a doped rider."

That is an odd statement.

If the odds of a win by a doped rider and a non-doped rider were equivalent, then the odds of a win could be related to a ratio between the number of doped and non-doped riders.

However, the existence of even a single doped rider spikes the results and games the system. Match fixing messes up the odds.

Hence the reason we want to get rid of doping.

Dave.

 

[pastronef]

go on guys

https://www.twitter.com/Vaughters/status/568229939264110592

 

[D-Queued]

go on guys

https://www.twitter.com/Vaughters/status/568229939264110592

Movie scripts...

Dave.

 

[skippythepinhead]

Movie scripts...

Dave.

Could it be? Could Vaughters say more--sort of--by actually saying less?

Or nothing?

Or is the lack of humor the "joke" I'm not getting because I'm always one "meta-level" behind the true genius?

Purely rhetorical questions, a mental "snack of sprouts"

 

[Semper Fidelis]

go on guys

https://www.twitter.com/Vaughters/status/568229939264110592

This is some True "leadership through marginal gains"

 

[D-Queued]

Could it be? Could Vaughters say more--sort of--by actually saying less?

Or nothing?

Or is the lack of humor the "joke" I'm not getting because I'm always one "meta-level" behind the true genius?

Purely rhetorical questions, a mental "snack of sprouts"

You aren't really missing anything. Save that JV is using mythology, spun by Hollywood, as some sort of evidence of what happens in reality.

Movies =/= real life.

Movies = stereotypes.

JV's analogy is fiction.

5 Myths About the Military You Believe (Thanks to Movies)

The reality, in this case, probably being closer to #4 on that list:

#4. War = Combat

"...what never makes it onto screen is the absolute sh!tload of tedious (everything) ... "

Or, from this article:

5 Ridiculous Gun Myths Everyone Believes (Thanks to Movies)

A burst of fire from an AK-47 at point-blank range would turn most men's torsos into gooey paste suitable for spreading on crackers...

Rambo isn't real. Fortunately, he doesn't know how to ride a bike anyways.

Bicycle Rambo

The German trooper, who was a member of either SS Kampfgruppe Peiper, 2nd SS Panzer or 9th SS Panzer, had four attributes which contributed to his success: ... and Four, he was very lucky.

Please recall that the purpose of shooting at the enemy is not to given them a paper cut from whence they can perform some extraordinary heroic deed.

Odds have improved, but if you get shot in battle and survive then you have done well. If you get shot in battle and manage to hold your own, you have done better. If you get shot in battle and do something heroic? You were very lucky in your misfortune.

Since WWII, 61% of the medal of honor awards were posthumous.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

Vaughters got a new batch of snakeoil in and it needs selling

"Peloton?s appetite for innovation is a sign that doping is on the wane says Vaughters"

http://road.cc/content/news/143598-peloton?s-appetite-innovation-sign-doping-wane-says-vaughters

I suppose the EPO fuelled era of aerodynamic TT frames and mad helmets was a myth?

The EPO era had much more innovation that current era. IMO.

 

[blackcat]

yes, SiS, and FRS gatorades.

there was never a gatorade devised to sell use overpriced water since Powerade.

 

[SeriousSam]

Peloton?s appetite for innovation is a sign that doping is on the wane says Vaughters

Ah, another variation of the good old "doping magically makes you uninterested in other advantages". I believe Sir Dave was the first to express this deeply irrational gem?

 

[blackcat]

I suppose the EPO fuelled era of aerodynamic TT frames and mad helmets was a myth?

The EPO era had much more innovation that current era. IMO.

dont know about that, peptides and gene pituitary voodoo doll pituitary pinning is quite advanced.

Saiz was buying IGF-1 from Gropep in Adelaide in the mid-early 2000s. Gropep growth peptides

 

[blackcat]

Ah, another variation of the good old "doping magically makes you uninterested in other advantages". I believe Sir Dave was the first to express this deeply irrational gem?

compared to D-Q's pithy aphorism, "marginal gains aint a rounding error on a comprehensive doping program"

 

[sniper]

Ah, another variation of the good old "doping magically makes you uninterested in other advantages". I believe Sir Dave was the first to express this deeply irrational gem?

i think it was vaughters himself who came up with that, but could've been brainsford as well.

 

[sniper]

Vaughters got a new batch of snakeoil in and it needs selling

"Peloton?s appetite for innovation is a sign that doping is on the wane says Vaughters"

http://road.cc/content/news/143598-peloton?s-appetite-innovation-sign-doping-wane-says-vaughters

I suppose the EPO fuelled era of aerodynamic TT frames and mad helmets was a myth?

The EPO era had much more innovation that current era. IMO.

how is anybody buying this crap?
so many examples of cyclists and teams with appetite for innovation and eye for technological detail in the pre-Lance era.
And Lance himself wasn't interested in technology?

Knaggs acknowledged ... the Postal Service team's obsessive focus on refining cycling technology

Armstrong's innovative training methods

By far, most of the energy in road bikes follows in the slipstream of Lance Armstrong and the pro peloton of the Tour de France: increasingly exotic aerospace materials, evermore refined technological components

how people still give JV any kind of credit, i dunno.

 

[blackcat]

how is anybody buying this crap?
so many examples of cyclists and teams with appetite for innovation and eye for technological detail in the pre-Lance era.
And Lance himself wasn't interested in technology?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/19/sports/cycling-overhauling-lance-armstrong.html
http://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.active.com%2Fcycling%2Farticles%2F4-ways-to-bike-like-lance&ei=nMnpVKeeDMeCPYXWgCA&usg=AFQjCNEVS9KU0OTPXnF5e0JLJ0PgBaV7VA&sig2=LxnO8XmcM7x6Zil-gb6HcA&bvm=bv.86475890,d.ZWU
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/oct/02/magazine/tm-bikes40

how people still give JV any kind of credit, i dunno.

i reckon the aerodynamics can be a false economy in certain circumstances.

like when the Australian track team (said they) formulate their team pursuit order based on the wind tunnel. Now the wind tunnel may have just been one input. But to me, this seems such a reverse engineering or retrofitting in the TP strategy. Saving 3 of 4% in the slipstream when the pursuiters have 30-40 seconds recovery in the slipstream, which is what, 80 of the anaerobic max, less the 4%, so say they come in at 77% max instead of 80% max on their recovery, I thought the TP was all about the order, and who could follow who, and which riders were likely to blow and be the 4th man, and which rider could then withstand being behind them and jumpin back in the train. The strategy was not about CdA for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rider. But Australians on the lot, were are quite a stupid people. if we weren't on an island, we would be fit for committing.

 

[filipo]

you are the second iteration of a gestalt of House, dBrower, Chris H, Judge Hue, and some other homers over on DP. We have been there and successfully did away with these nuffies like urself.

House! Man I loved that guy. If I ever felt bad about myself, thought I was too much of a sashole, one post from House was all it took to convince me I was the smartest, prettiest girl at the dance.

 

[blackcat]

House! Man I loved that guy. If I ever felt bad about myself, thought I was too much of a sashole, one post from House was all it took to convince me I was the smartest, prettiest girl at the dance.

filipo, you only a little bit or an @sshole swear filter avoidance

 

[Digger]

Not many are as critical of JV as me - but if he has done/said, what I think he is implying, in his twitter feed regarding Jens, then that's good. And fair play. He also gave it back to Oleg a bit on twitter which is positive.

 

[sniper]

Not many are as critical of JV as me - but if he has done/said, what I think he is implying, in his twitter feed regarding Jens, then that's good. And fair play. He also gave it back to Oleg a bit on twitter which is positive.

could you expand? I'm not digging it.

 

[Benotti69]

could you expand? I'm not digging it.

https://twitter.com/matthewlcooke/media

Vaughters says that Voight has the same history as Levi, DZ and Danielson.

Which also implies that DZ and Danielson didn't end their doping in 2006 just as Levi doped till his career ended as did Voight.

 

[luckyboy]

Oleg Tinkov @olegtinkov
@Vaughters Why you dedicated you life to anti-doping? That's weird.. You can't control and be responsible for stupid people around. PR?


Don't think I've ever seen somebody accuse JV of his anti-doping being mostly about PR outside of this place.

 

[Benotti69]

Oleg Tinkov @olegtinkov
@Vaughters Why you dedicated you life to anti-doping? That's weird.. You can't control and be responsible for stupid people around. PR?


Don't think I've ever seen somebody accuse JV of his anti-doping being mostly about PR outside of this place.

It would not surprise me if Tinkov read the JV thread and other ones.

 

[Benotti69]

Kimmage treating JV with the respect he deserves on twitter

https://twitter.com/ulif/status/572212786685718528

Uli Fluhme calling it as some do in here

"Naughty Vaughty is the impersonification of hypocrisy"

 

[Benotti69]

Hey JV, CIRC says:

'The pills system in 2011 - 30 pills daily during a stage, anti depressants and tranquilisers.'

So that all stopped for Hesjedal to win Il Giro 2012. Yeah of course it did.

 

[sniper]

One respected pro felt that 90% were still doping

And on it goes - anti doping experts reckoned the biopassport helped riders dope as it gave guidelines.

Aicar, Xenon gas, EPO, Neorecormon and Albumina all being used today

jv, anything to add?

 

[D-Queued]

One respected pro felt that 90% were still doping

jv, anything to add?

I'm curious.

Who is the respected pro?

Dave.