JV talks, sort of

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Jul 13, 2012
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sniper said:
Pretty disgusting. Anybody who still hasn't understood that he and Brailsford are in the same boat must be living under a rock.

I reckon we won't see JV in here for a while. Too many questions he can't answer. The only transparent thing about JV is his PR tactics.
yep, thats the first thing I aimed at him when he came on here, chose to ignore my comments, unsurpisingly......
 
May 14, 2010
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BroDeal said:
Within two years JV will be gone from cycling and on to a cushy corporate gig. Cycling will be worse off because of it. His departure will also show that a method based on altruists working in secret has no staying power.

Agree. On all points.
 
Aug 21, 2012
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If the admins are willing to tolerate the obvious astroturfing and baiting, then why would anyone want to participate in earnest in these discussions?
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Argyle_Fan said:
My post was intended to start a dialogue rather than an interrogation! We’ll see what JV decides to address when/if he turns up. And no I don't have an agenda, except for (excessive?) curiosity. Yes, my invitation was sincere. Nor do I have 'issues' as one poster puts it (at least not to my knowledge!).

Sorry if some questions have been answered before - they were all new to my knowledge at least. My guess is that the disagreement on this point is due to the answers being out there if you read between the lines (indeed, that is how I came up with some of the questions in the 1st place - reading between the lines in interviews etc. - thank you to the poster who said my list was well researched!). The NYT Op-Ed was great, but I appreciated the higher level of specifics in bicycling.com even more (all the details there that Joe Public would not necessarily want or need). I guess I just wanted the info to be made explicit in these cases. Indeed yes, some questions JV cannot reasonably answer, but at least he can see what people want to know (and maybe it will give him ideas for the book that I hope he’ll write when/if the time is right).

Incidentally - when/will there be a book? I was happy to see David Millar write his while still in cycling - but I guess that the life of a team manager is very hectic.

I have to admit to being somewhat surprised by some of the criticism, but all points have been noted for the future! I decided not to trim the list just for the moment - I’m sure JV can quickly and easily sort the wheat from the chaff. My intention is that he can choose what he wants to address etc., and I tried to write it in a way that encourages expansion, discursion, context etc.

I think that any flack I get is nothing compared to what JV has to deal with on a daily basis!

And finally, hopefully others will add to the list, as one poster has already done - thanks for that!

- Argyle Fan

(p.s. Just to correct one poster's assumption - I'm female :) )
Ya, the Bicycling interview was very revealing.
I was going to link another interview JV did with Paul Kimmage, but it is behind a pay wall. If I can get it I will send it to you through private message.

Also, i have no problem with your questions, was just trying to assist you in getting some answers, because my own view is that JV is not going to be posting here for some time.
He got a lot of flack here, and while he handled it reasonably well when everything you say is dismissed as a lie there is little point in carrying on a discussion. Add to that McQuaid threatening to sanction the Garmin riders who doped that JV revealed here was a not too subtle way of telling him to curb his public comments. I would hope that I am wrong, but that's just my two cents.
 
jam pants said:
If the admins are willing to tolerate the obvious astroturfing and baiting, then why would anyone want to participate in earnest in these discussions?
Please feel welcome to join the conversation. Typically, other posters are more likely to pay attention when you add to the conversation.

Just saying...

Otherwise, feel free to report any offending post or join that section of the Forum that discusses the rules and how they are applied.

Dave.
 
Sep 19, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
Also, i have no problem with your questions, was just trying to assist you in getting some answers, because my own view is that JV is not going to be posting here for some time.
Thanks very much for the advice, Dr M! It would be a shame if he has been scared away from the forums. There were one or two posts in this thread which don't exactly help, unfortunately. I suspect that he's gotten used to it over the years. Hopefully he'll at least read the questions, and perhaps address some of them in his eventual (hopefully!) book.

Sometime, I'm going to edit my original questions, cut out the fluff, and probably organize them all into sections so that it's all a bit more coherent. It was something of a stream-of-consciousness data-dump... I think that would help a lot. But at the moment, I'm very slowly working my way through the 'JV talks, sort of' thread (if there are answers there, then maybe I can remove a few questions). (I've already removed the rather meaningless one on 'ambiguity'.)

I hope that we can keep an environment here where Jonathan feels comfortable talking :) . Perhaps the mods can help keep the tone cordial?

I do wonder if he'll be a little more restrained after his accidental outing of the Garmin 3. At least he has plenty of time to consider his answers. Intresting speculation that he might have been told to keep quiet from 'on high'. But I suspect that JV just follows his own compass.

And finally, can I encourage others to add their questions too!

- Argyle_Fan

p.s. If there's anyone reading who knows JV, perhaps they can alert him to this thread? Not sure how often he'll be visiting the cyclingnews forums after the 'Garmin 3' outing... Maybe after I've sorted/rationalized the question list, as I guess he'll be pretty busy.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Ya, the Bicycling interview was very revealing.
I was going to link another interview JV did with Paul Kimmage, but it is behind a pay wall. If I can get it I will send it to you through private message.

Also, i have no problem with your questions, was just trying to assist you in getting some answers, because my own view is that JV is not going to be posting here for some time.
He got a lot of flack here, and while he handled it reasonably well when everything you say is dismissed as a lie there is little point in carrying on a discussion. Add to that McQuaid threatening to sanction the Garmin riders who doped that JV revealed here was a not too subtle way of telling him to curb his public comments. I would hope that I am wrong, but that's just my two cents.
A lot of flack? Certainly not from you.
And how is he "handling it pretty well"?
He called us nut-cracking monkeys and conspiracists, said he doesn't respect the Clinic, and called individual posters names. (Those posts were later deleted by the mods, and would, in any other case, have provoked a ban, but JV was cut slack by the mods.)

If he doesn't come in here anymore it is because there are too many questions he can't answer and because this is the only place where his contradictory statements and behavior are exposed.

In his most recent press statement he's all over the place profilating Sky as a clean team (which, nota bene, would arguably make Sky the first clean team in the history of cycling). Previously, JV had been in here admitting Leinders' appointment by Sky is troublesome/worrying. Consistent? Not really. Transparent? Far from.

The flack he got, he got it for refusing to provide transparent answers to transparent questions.

Argyle_Fan, if you want answers, do as Dr. Maserati tells you and remove questions that might be difficult for JV to answer.
 
Sep 19, 2012
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sniper said:
Argyle_Fan, if you want answers, do as Dr. Maserati tells you and remove questions that might be difficult for JV to answer.
Hi - thanks for the comment. I'll probably just leave the questions in the public domain for the mo - I don't think that I've anywhere implied that JV is required to answer anything whatsoever for now, if indeed ever. There is no pressure whatsoever - it's basically just an open invitation to give more detail, as I suspect he may wish to do eventually. He can just ignore them, and I don't think it will make him feel too uncomfortable to see them in type. Good to let him know what we're interested in.

I know that there are some questions that he will be not just unwilling but actually unable to answer. I'll leave them to be.

Thanks again :),

- Argyle_Fan
 
May 26, 2010
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sniper said:
A lot of flack? Certainly not from you.
And how is he "handling it pretty well"?
He called us nut-cracking monkeys and conspiracists, said he doesn't respect the Clinic, and called individual posters names. (Those posts were later deleted by the mods, and would, in any other case, have provoked a ban, but JV was cut slack by the mods.)

If he doesn't come in here anymore it is because there are too many questions he can't answer and because this is the only place where his contradictory statements and behavior are exposed.

In his most recent press statement he's all over the place profilating Sky as a clean team (which, nota bene, would arguably make Sky the first clean team in the history of cycling). Previously, JV had been in here admitting Leinders' appointment by Sky is troublesome/worrying. Consistent? Not really. Transparent? Far from.

The flack he got, he got it for refusing to provide transparent answers to transparent questions.

Argyle_Fan, if you want answers, do as Dr. Maserati tells you and remove questions that might be difficult for JV to answer.
Dont forget Michael Ashenden said that there are elements in 'new age clean' teams that are doping and as JV speaks out of both sides of his mouth so i would expect him to answer in a manner that pushes JV the white knight of cycling, which Ashenden has basically called a sham.
 
May 26, 2010
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Argyle_Fan said:
Hi - thanks for the comment. I'll probably just leave the questions in the public domain for the mo - I don't think that I've anywhere implied that JV is required to answer anything whatsoever for now, if indeed ever. There is no pressure whatsoever - it's basically just an open invitation to give more detail, as I suspect he may wish to do eventually. He can just ignore them, and I don't think it will make him feel too uncomfortable to see them in type. Good to let him know what we're interested in.

I know that there are some questions that he will be not just unwilling but actually unable to answer. I'll leave them to be.

Thanks again :),

- Argyle_Fan
Are you asking him to answer these on a public forum? Do you want him to answer these in public and if not have you tried an email directly to him?

Make sure to publish the answer to your email here, to give us a laugh:D
 
May 26, 2010
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DenisMenchov said:
I have a question for mr. Vaughters. Could an amateur cyclist with 60kg (133lb) and 181cm (6 feet) with the use of doping become a good cyclist. Possible Top 10 in a GT?
Is the Katusha Doctor not able to do much for you Denis?
 
Sep 19, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
Are you asking him to answer these on a public forum? Do you want him to answer these in public and if not have you tried an email directly to him?
Yes I am asking him to reply on a public forum, but it's an invitation to discussion rather than any kind of demand. Could do a personal email I guess, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable allowing JV to make the decision as to whether or not he wants personal contact with me.

Benotti69 said:
Make sure to publish the answer to your email here, to give us a laugh:D
Sorry - can't do. If he PM's me privately, it stays private.

- Argyle_Fan
 
May 26, 2010
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Argyle_Fan said:
Sorry - can't do. If he PM's me privately, it stays private.

- Argyle_Fan
We'll read about it in the NYTs in a few years no doubt after he has left pro cycling calling them all kinds of names and accusing them of killing the only hope of a clean sport or some such BS.

Don't forget to ask him who the dopers are in his team that Ashenden is referring too.
 
May 26, 2010
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the big ring said:
JV starting to look worse and worse.

First Ashenden saying there are riders doping on new age teams, ie garmin

Now this showing Lowe had what appears to be a high HCT rom what must have been doping and they still picked him to ride the TdF and then JV ignoring his repeated attempts to talk to him, why?

Did JV know Lowe was doping?

I also note that JV withheld his bonuses. that type of crap to riders was always pathetic. Very omerta.

I love this bit

We made a promise to all our riders and to the world when we started this team. We live, every day, by the standards we have set for ourselves. We cannot allow this vital team rule to be broken.
Someone better tell him he looks a lot like Brailsford now. FOS.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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sniper said:
A lot of flack? Certainly not from you.
I have often quoted the thread I started where I asked why he continued to avoid talking about his own past - that was neither popular with JV or his supporters.

So please, do NOT misrepresent my opinion again.
sniper said:
And how is he "handling it pretty well"?
He called us nut-cracking monkeys and conspiracists, said he doesn't respect the Clinic, and called individual posters names. (Those posts were later deleted by the mods, and would, in any other case, have provoked a ban, but JV was cut slack by the mods.)

If he doesn't come in here anymore it is because there are too many questions he can't answer and because this is the only place where his contradictory statements and behavior are exposed.

In his most recent press statement he's all over the place profilating Sky as a clean team (which, nota bene, would arguably make Sky the first clean team in the history of cycling). Previously, JV had been in here admitting Leinders' appointment by Sky is troublesome/worrying. Consistent? Not really. Transparent? Far from.

The flack he got, he got it for refusing to provide transparent answers to transparent questions.
While it wasn't a very nice thing to say- it is in fact true in your case.
You had yourself convinced that Contador was going to get cleared by CAS because Saxo trained in Israel.
Or when you said Terranos was jailed for his part in Festina and had been made head of the Spanish Olympic Committee.


sniper said:
Argyle_Fan, if you want answers, do as Dr. Maserati tells you and remove questions that might be difficult for JV to answer.
I never said that - do NOT misquote me.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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Argyle_Fan said:
Hi - thanks for the comment. I'll probably just leave the questions in the public domain for the mo - I don't think that I've anywhere implied that JV is required to answer anything whatsoever for now, if indeed ever. There is no pressure whatsoever - it's basically just an open invitation to give more detail, as I suspect he may wish to do eventually. He can just ignore them, and I don't think it will make him feel too uncomfortable to see them in type. Good to let him know what we're interested in.

I know that there are some questions that he will be not just unwilling but actually unable to answer. I'll leave them to be.

Thanks again :),

- Argyle_Fan
Could you go back and fix this post - you have a quote that I did not say under my username - when it was an incorrect comment from Sniper.
I assume you copied and pasted the wrong username when replying - which I have done myself. Thanks.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
You had yourself convinced that Contador was going to get cleared by CAS because Saxo trained in Israel.
I had (and still have) myself convinced Saxo went there to try and get AC cleared. That it didn't work doesn't mean they didn't try. You won't find a single post where I claim he is going to get off. So pleazz
do NOT misquote me.
Dr. Maserati said:
Could you go back and fix this post - you have a quote that I did not say under my username - when it was an incorrect comment from Sniper.
I assume you copied and pasted the wrong username when replying - which I have done myself. Thanks.
Doc, it's sniper, small /s/.;)
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
JV starting to look worse and worse.
Now, this is a perfect example of why JV would not stay here and why he rightly ridiculed some members...
Benotti69 said:
First Ashenden saying there are riders doping on new age teams, ie garmin
I thought on the Sky thread you were insinuating it was Sky?
Which is it?
Oh, that's right you have no idea.
Benotti69 said:
Now this showing Lowe had what appears to be a high HCT rom what must have been doping and they still picked him to ride the TdF and then JV ignoring his repeated attempts to talk to him, why?

Did JV know Lowe was doping?

I also note that JV withheld his bonuses. that type of crap to riders was always pathetic. Very omerta.

I love this bit



Someone better tell him he looks a lot like Brailsford now. FOS.
Do YOU know Lowe was doping? Or did you just make that up too?

If you read the full email exchange between Lowe & JV it is clear that first JV knows about del Moral is when Lowe brings it up and JV is incredious - which one would expect if they did not want their rider going to a guy who JV knows all about.

Why would JV engage with people like you when you don't know the basics and then misrepresent the facts?
 
Sep 19, 2012
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Hi Dr. M.,

Definitely I'll fix the post. But I've been unable to work out the phrase/quote that needs fixing??

[EDIT: just been re-reading my posts, and it seems that the forum software attributed sniper's quote in my post to Dr. M. Probably some kind of random bug in the forum software? I've edited it all correcctly now. Many apologies to Dr. M.]

Just let me know what you want me to do,

Argyle_Fan
 
Aug 9, 2012
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I think reading this as some slick PR trick to hide something is a bit silly.

My understanding is that D|ck Pound called for a truth and reconciliation commission.
Pat at the UCI called for the same, but was perhaps hoping to keep it in house and under his "able hands".
Now there was a UCI council meeting in Maastricht on Wednesday and JV said that it would be a good idea if WADA intervened and put the commission together.

Hence JV doesn't want the UCI to be able to hide anything.

Additionally he suggests a comprehensive database, which is a concrete suggestion of what steps one would need to take in this commission.

"Vaughters wants an independent tribunal to record a comprehensive database of the sports turbulent doping past so the truth can be fully acknowledged before moving on to a bright future."


As far as Ashendens comments, when I heard the term new age, Garmin is not the team that came to mind first.;)

Anyway, Ashendens " I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers even within ‘new age’ cycling teams."

To me does not necessarily imply that the Team is aware of it. It could be they are aware, but it could also mean they are not.

Anyway if this truth an reconciliation commission gets rolling, I expect some of these pockets to start leaking and finally revealing themselves.

As for all the talk of sky in the article, it is a British paper and the Telegraph is a "very British" paper, so I would not take that as anymore than nationalism for the readers. How much of that JV said and after what questions, would perhaps say more about the paper than JV.;)
 
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