JV talks, sort of

[ChrisE]

i like your posts on the topic, ChrisE. But this is really a no-brainer.
Of course you remember Prentice's email to Garmin staff and riders. That wasn't just an email. That was Garmin's philosophy black on white. Being in the Clinic increases his cred in the eyes of the mainstream press, and eventually scores him points with the sponsors. perception becomes reality. And its working wonderfully for him.
:

Really? If the random fan came in here and saw him getting busted up, you think that is good for sponsors? I haven't noticed any mainstream press on his posts in here except the announcement of the "accidental" outing of his riders, but I do agree it would be a good idea if he solicited an interview with assclown stenographer Rick Reilly. Lots more bang for the buck with that than arguing with Dear Wiggo in here.

It's funny, but if LA would have given FL a job then this whole thread would not exist. People need to keep that in mind when determining how much conviction there really is on this subject.

BTW, you are way too slick to be new. For stealth sockpuppetry, I suggest you keep your banter sparse. Trouble comes when you get into long winded arguments with one of the regulars and carpet bomb the clinic with posts, regardless of the validity of your POV. Good luck.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

there's food for thought in that post.
anyway, I'm a fan of your kitchen in general and especially when Armstrong is on the menu.
But you seem to have softened a little wrt Garmin/JV, which is what worries me

I give JV the benefit of the doubt. I understand those who don't, but I do.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It's funny, but if LA would have given FL a job then this whole thread would not exist. People need to keep that in mind when determining how much conviction there really is on this subject.

Isnt life full of wonders?

 

[Beech Mtn]

I bring you Giro start, you bring me nomination, yes?

Not saying it's pure quid pro quo (after all, RCS give the Giro starts anyway), just that so many things in cycling seem to be so very interconnected.

It's funny, but if LA would have given FL a job then this whole thread would not exist. People need to keep that in mind when determining how much conviction there really is on this subject.

<snipped>

This. Mods could make it a sticky at the top of many clinic threads.

 

[Fatclimber]

Actually, he's perfectly entitled to say that. He can say what he wants. I'm just not entirely sure why he wastes his time in here. Honestly, it's become like a cult. There's no arguing with a religious fundamentalist. Just smile, and go to the pub.

The only sensible response is to enjoy it for comedy value, and spend any actual anti-doping energy somewhere actually useful.

This is the exact same philosophy I apply to professional road racing and the corresponding forum. The parallels are amazing.

 

[thehog]

Not saying it's pure quid pro quo (after all, RCS give the Giro starts anyway), just that so many things in cycling seem to be so very interconnected.

.

No Pat's brother brought (bought) the Giro to Ireland.

The Governments in the Republic and Northern Ireland and councils in Dublin and Belfast have been approached with a plan to host the opening stages of the Giro d’Italia.

The proposal has been put forward by Darach McQuaid, operating as Shadetree Sports. McQuaid is a former Irish international, is the brother of UCI president Pat McQuaid and also ran the now defunct Tour of Ireland professional bike race.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-...red-for-giro-ditalia-start-in-dublin-belfast/

 

[blackcat]

Right now Team Sky is making the sport look terrible. It does not matter if the team's riders are not doping. The results are such an outlier to what is usual, they smell bad. To make things worse, the sport is run by a moron. Can anyone imagine McQuaid as the CEO of a Fortune 500 company giving a quarterly earnings conference call. The market's faith in the company would fall off a cliff moments after he began speaking. The stock would crater.

D!ck Fuld?

 

[BroDeal]

ive got to stop arguing with folks who have already made up their mind. why bother asking me the above questions when (most of) you already have the answer?

There are a lot of people who read and do not post. A cogent argument might change their minds even if it does not change the minds of the Clinic Twelve.

 

[Red Dragon]

i dont blame your for being a cynic, but i would ask that when i present real and easily verified numbers up, like climbing speeds being down 10%, that you think about it. Dont just dismiss it out of hand.

The reduction of speed in ascent times does not present any real evidence that a professional cyclist is clean. In fact far from it. With the introduction of the Biological Passport in 2008 it meant the riders could no longer increase their haematocrit through oxygen vector doping up to the permitted level of 50.(pre-2008). Naturally the ascent times on climbs have come down as a result.....

 

[DirtyWorks]

cadf has recently made itself autonomous from uci. pat had to step down as president of cadf and was replaced by daniel baal. no idea why it hasnt been announcd.

Why would it matter? UCI retains testing authority. We know how well that works.

I presume Baal is still on the UCI management committee? What have they done to restrain Hein and Pat? What have they done to restore some confidence the WorldTour calendar events are legitimate competitive events?

the cynicism will remain until pat and hein are gone. this is not a judgement of their efforts, its just a simple fact.

This is an easy blame game. It sure seems obvious that they are not going anywhere. It's not like the UCI is democratic or the Management Committee does much, if any, management. Instead, how about endorsing granting WADA complete doping authority? They should select their test population, manage/route results, and open cases.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Not saying it's pure quid pro quo (after all, RCS give the Giro starts anyway), just that so many things in cycling seem to be so very interconnected.

Geez, why not? Pat gets (probably) a mix of private an public funds from all parts of Ireland, ensures the UCI will approve the stage and has funding to get the race there. The only thing left is to contact RCS and set a date. Pat skims a "finder's fee" off of the funding collected, Irish competitive cycling gets a visibility boost, and Irish cycling fans looove it.

Cycling at that level is down to a **very** small number of people, of course there's a quid-pro-quo.

 

[blackcat]

There are a lot of people who read and do not post. A cogent argument might change their minds even if it does not change the minds of the Clinic Twelve.

and it is a logic flaw in the premise that this is a values (ethics) centred issue. then we have a McQuaid talking about the western anglophone pov on PEDs and defaming countries and blocs on masse. and then it blows up in his face.


there is no coherent argument to be made when the reality is pulled back and the tension of anti-doping v athlete norms, and health v performance. Wanting these nebulous ideals of sport and anti-doping

____________We'd forgive most things if we knew the facts. Graham Greene
perhaps there's nuffin to forgive.

 

[martinvickers]

The reduction of speed in ascent times does not present any real evidence that a professional cyclist is clean. In fact far from it. With the introduction of the Biological Passport in 2008 it meant the riders could no longer increase their haematocrit through oxygen vector doping up to the permitted level of 50.(pre-2008). Naturally the ascent times on climbs have come down as a result.....

It's not supposed to.

1. it's not about "a cyclist" but the peleton as a whole.
2. It's about cleanER not clean.
3. I don't think that's what the BP does, RD.

more generally, demanding "proof" that someone, or a group, are 'clean' is ridiculous. You're demanding someone prove a negative; and that's simply a logical impossiblity.

Some might think that's exactly why some people do it...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

There are a lot of people who read and do not post. A cogent argument might change their minds even if it does not change the minds of the Clinic Twelve.

Dude, you are part of the Clinic 12. I thought you got the Certificate of Inclusion in the mail, sorry.

 

[mewmewmew13]

dude, you are part of the clinic 12. I thought you got the certificate of inclusion in the mail, sorry.

:d
:d

.......

 

[Brian Butterworth]

<apologies for interrupting the mutual fwap-fest>

Hi JV

we know you read this forum (or at least this eponymous thread), but as far as you know do other people, management or riders, pay much attention to it?

 

[Huckleberry]

Hi JV

we know you read this forum (or at least this eponymous thread), but as far as you know do other people, management or riders, pay much attention to it?

Well, he seems pretty hazy on who is clean and who is doping, so I think his powers of clairvoyance are limited at best. So by extension, how is he going to know who reads this bloody forum..........

 

[martinvickers]

Well, he seems pretty hazy on who is clean and who is doping, so I think his powers of clairvoyance are limited at best. So by extension, how is he going to know who reads this bloody forum..........

Just an idea. Maybe JV can answer the questions himself?

 

[blackcat]

Dude, you are part of the Clinic 12. I thought you got the Certificate of Inclusion in the mail, sorry.

TFF you failed to include a wax stamp watermark thingie on his diploma.

need to resend with said qualification.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

TFF you failed to include a wax stamp watermark thingie on his diploma.

need to resend with said qualification.

That may be true, but my biggest mistake was addressing it:

To BroDeal
Somewhere in Colorado I think

 

[JV1973]

There are a lot of people who read and do not post. A cogent argument might change their minds even if it does not change the minds of the Clinic Twelve.

That is a very good point.

 

[JV1973]

<apologies for interrupting the mutual fwap-fest>

Hi JV

we know you read this forum (or at least this eponymous thread), but as far as you know do other people, management or riders, pay much attention to it?

Ive never actually spoken to anyone "in real life" that is aware of the clinic. That said, when I outed Tommy D, it got a lot of attention! But it took 3-4 days after the outing for a journo to stumble upon it.

 

[Netserk]

Do you think you could do a better job than Pat McQuaid as president of UCI? Have you ever considered to take such a role in cycling later?

 

[Netserk]

How do you scout talents? I remember your story about Ramunas (although that was the anti-doping part/tests of talent), I'd imagine that you have the finger on the pulse regarding the domestic circuit, but what about talents from across the globe? How do you find them, and when do you know/think that they are ready for a pro-contract? How promising are the riders on your feeder/development team? Do you think you have the next Talansky there?

I know it's a lot of questions, but I would just really like to know more about how you find the young talents

 

[Mr.38%]

JV, check out Silvio Herklotz from Germany. At present he is riding his first year Elite with a pretty well organized German CT Team Stölting.

He is doing good in Istrian Spring Trophy 2.2, yesterday only beaten by good old Patrik Sinkewitz in an uphill finish.

Get him to a test before someone else does: http://www.team-stoelting.de/team/fahrer/silvio-herklotz

If you know Luke Roberts, give him a call, he is on that team as well.