JV talks, sort of

[JV1973]

JV, what happened with Rohan Dennis? He is another rider that seemed quite ****ed with Garmin.

We operate a system where the director of the race has the ultimate call on tactics and roster selection. We avoid letting riders have final call on either of these decisions, even if it is a star rider. Team comes first. Always.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't know. I really don't. Dave and I don't speak much anymore.

He is the only cyclist to ever have served on the WADA athlete's commission. His work there, by all accounts, has been very good.

I am not going to call into question David's work on the WADA athlete's commission, because I do not know of what his work while there has entailed. And your reasoning behind hiring him is logical and is a foundation upon which Garmin's reputation has built itself and I understand that - the outward face of it being the acceptance that the sport has a dirty past but the commitment to a clean future. That's all fine.

But personally, I find it concerning that Millar gets roles like that ahead of clean riders. Why don't we see the likes of Christophe Bassons, Marco Pinotti or Jimmy Engoulvent getting to represent the sport or the riders like that? It seems that even after stopping doping Millar is continually profiteering from his cheating.

There is an argument to be made that a repentant cheat or reformed doper is of more value to an anti-doping commission because he knows the system from the inside. Even putting aside Millar's public persona, which has always rubbed me up the wrong way as I've always got the air of Bono from him, that even when he is doing the right thing, he does it in a way that's designed to make sure you know he is doing the right thing, his history and complicity with anti-doping authorities makes his knowledge useful. I get that.

But he is still profiting from his doping while clean cyclists who've never been swayed lose out. First they get beaten by the dopers in the races, then the dopers get the anti-doping jobs ahead of them because of their insider information.

In your honest opinion, as I assume you have experience of dealing with both, do you think anti-doping commissions, working groups and panels are better served with clean riders who speak up against their cheating colleagues, or by reformed ex-dopers who have committed to fighting the fight for clean cycling?

 

[Netserk]

Different kind of question to you JV:

What in your opinion is a good race route?

 

[Afrank]

Conversation about Horner/Danielson comparison moved to Horner thread.

 

[Granville57]

Different kind of question to you JV:

What in your opinion is a good race route?

Far be it from me to speak for JV, but I'm guessing he probably thinks highly of routes such as the 2011 Paris-Roubaix, and 2012 Giro routes...among others, of course.

But that's just a guess.

 

[Netserk]

Far be it from me to speak for JV, but I'm guessing he probably thinks highly of routes such as the 2011 Paris-Roubaix, and 2012 Giro routes...among others, of course.

But that's just a guess.

I hoped for a more generic(?) answer, not so specific

Like if he thought a safe route (whatever that is) is very important to him, or a selective, in an area with many fans by the side of the road, technical routes or whatever.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Actually, Christian asked me and tried to convince me we should hire Floyd post suspension. CVV was one of the few that spoke up to me about it not being fair. I was the one who ultimately decided we weren't going to hire Floyd. The funny thing is, we were the only team in cycling that even considered this. That actually even thought about it. The rest never even gave it a first thought, much less second.

Yet.... We are to blame. Funny.

Ok well only you would know that and I thank you for sharing it. Seriously.

It's not like you have to.

I can't help but remember those quotes of the guys (NOT JUST YOUR TEAM) taking the **** out of FLOYD and thinking man what did Floyd ever do to cause the entire peloton to turn. Then you look at the goods he had and held in regards to the system of doping and one can understand.

Maybe that is why when I look at it I always thought it would have been a good move on YOUR part to hire him. Even now or say after the legal issues. He could still work within cycling correct? I mean you and CVV, George with his clothing and even Lance A. with his Cycling shop..

 

[JV1973]

In JV's own words from Walsh's book - landis is the most non-hypocritical people I know....With Simeoni he refused to chase down...

One thing I can say with certain, he would not have done what they did In the press.

You say it might not have started - exactly how else would it have?

Floyd: "I'll say....no."

We all said stupid things. Floyd is the first to say this.

 

[Digger]

Floyd: "I'll say....no."

We all said stupid things. Floyd is the first to say this.

He would not have said what they did in the press- I.e. sh** on someone you knew was telling the truth - OPeration Puerto press conference at the start of that tour is an example.

also curious to know how you are so definite about what Floyd would or would not have done...

 

[JV1973]

He would not have said what they did in the press- I.e. sh** on someone you knew was telling the truth - OPeration Puerto press conference at the start of that tour is an example.

Well, neither would I. I never **** on Floyd. Never **** on Bassons. Never said a bad word about DeCanio.... Never said one negative thing.

But yet, I am your target.

 

[Digger]

Well, neither would I. I never **** on Floyd. Never **** on Bassons. Never said a bad word about DeCanio.... Never said one negative thing.

But yet, I am your target.

Kohl, Joerg might disagree.

 

[JV1973]

He would not have said what they did in the press- I.e. sh** on someone you knew was telling the truth - OPeration Puerto press conference at the start of that tour is an example.

also curious to know how you are so definite about what Floyd would or would not have done...

Hey, listen, i can send you screen shots of text conversations, if you doubt what I'm saying about Floyd's sentiment. Give me an address.

I think his exact words when speaking on this topic were: "We all said a lot of stupid **** back then. I'm embarrassed when I look back at some of it."

To which I replied "Yeah, me too"

 

[Netserk]

Well, neither would I. I never **** on Floyd. Never **** on Bassons. Never said a bad word about DeCanio.... Never said one negative thing.

But yet, I am your target.

Please JV, can you ignore Digger and instead answer some of the other questions asked here?

I think that would be better for both you and the thread, but you are ofc free to post whatever you want.

 

[JV1973]

Kohl, Joerg might disagree.

I said what I feel about those guys. I am allowed to have an opinion on people's talent. That is basically how I derive a living.

I never said they were lying. Never did I say that. I just don't think they were overly talented bike riders. That is my opinion. You don't have to agree.

 

[Digger]

Hey, listen, i can send you screen shots of text conversations, if you doubt what I'm saying about Floyd's sentiment. Give me an address.

I think his exact words when speaking on this topic were: "We all said a lot of stupid **** back then. I'm embarrassed when I look back at some of it."

To which I replied "Yeah, me too"

POint still stands - my point, was Floyd wouldn't have said what the aforementioned guys said in the press.

 

[JV1973]

POint still stands - my point, was Floyd wouldn't have said what the aforementioned guys said in the press.

You don't know that. No one does. He wasn't placed in an identical situation, ever. therefore you cannot assume his reaction.

 

[Digger]

I said what I feel about those guys. I am allowed to have an opinion on people's talent. That is basically how I derive a living.

I never said they were lying. Never did I say that. I just don't think they were overly talented bike riders. That is my opinion. You don't have to agree.

The kohl thing you said he never said he was lying - but you clearly tried to discredit his claims by talking about his supposed lack of talent.

Well ok, let's take this along further - the specific quote about Kohl is interesting, in light of the subsequent events with Froome and Wiggins


Secondly, the Joerg thing - as he himself said, how could you have known? did you test him?

And if it was just that I would say something, you went personal on him about the way he apparently behaved in the peloton.

 

[Digger]

You don't know that. No one does. He wasn't placed in an identical situation, ever. therefore you cannot assume his reaction.

The Floyd landis you have known for years - are you seriously telling me you don't know what he'd have said? You don't think he'd have at least have said nothing - the guy you said those words about to walsh - which btw I think were very cool.

 

[sniper]

Good question. i don't know. But that sentiment was real. In hindsight a bit stupid, but it was very real.

you seem to 'have no idea' a lot of times when faced with all those contradictions.
there are quite straightforward answers though, which are fully in line with the history of the sport.
yet you seem unwilling to even consider such answers.
you're a very smart guy. why play dumb all the time?
you know the history of the sport like few others, yet you are fully ignoring it when confronted with dubious facts wrt sky/garmin.

Most of your responses to Digger have been to denigrate and discredit him.
You haven't addressed many of the points he's made.
E.g. your differential treatment of Kohl/Jaksche on the one hand and Sky riders on the other.
btw, Dear Wiggo also posted some stuff a few pages back that puts you in an awkward light. And again, crickets.

 

[JV1973]

The kohl thing you said he never said he was lying - but you clearly tried to discredit his claims by talking about his supposed lack of talent.

Well ok, let's take this along further - the specific quote about Kohl is interesting, in light of the subsequent events with Froome and Wiggins


Secondly, the Joerg thing - as he himself said, how could you have known? did you test him?

And if it was just that I would say something, you went personal on him about the way he apparently behaved in the peloton.

Joerg was not a guy I got along with. He begged and pleaded for a spot on my team, but I wasn't interested. Just on a personal level.

I never tested Kohl either. Doesn't mean I can't think he's not talented. Its just an opinion. you view it as hypocrisy, but its not. its a simple opinion.

I'm not discrediting Kohl, I'm saying I don't think he was a great talent.
I don't always get it right on talent, eh? I've bought some donkeys in my day.

But whatever, man.... Please dedicate you life to this. I'm sure it will result in something. hah!

 

[JV1973]

you seem to 'have no idea' a lot of times when faced with all those contradictions.
there are quite straightforward answers though, which are fully in line with the history of the sport.
yet you seem unwilling to even consider such answers.
you're a very smart guy. why play dumb all the time?
you know the history of the sport like few others, yet you are fully ignoring it when confronted with dubious facts wrt sky/garmin.

Most of your responses to Digger have been to denigrate and discredit him.
I wonder why?

because I don't like Digger. Pretty simple. I think he is the very embodiment of the hypocrisy he runs around complaining about.

 

[Netserk]

Joerg was not a guy I got along with. He begged and pleaded for a spot on my team, but I wasn't interested. Just on a personal level.

I never tested Kohl either. Doesn't mean I can't think he's not talented. Its just an opinion. you view it as hypocrisy, but its not. its a simple opinion.

I'm not discrediting Kohl, I'm saying I don't think he was a great talent.
I don't always get it right on talent, eh? I've bought some donkeys in my day.

But whatever, man.... Please dedicate you life to this. I'm sure it will result in something. hah!

Speaking of donkeys, which buys have you regretted the most?

 

[JV1973]

The Floyd landis you have known for years - are you seriously telling me you don't know what he'd have said? You don't think he'd have at least have said nothing - the guy you said those words about to walsh - which btw I think were very cool.

I've always liked Floyd. Much more than I like most bike racers.

But no, I don't know what he would have done. His attorneys flayed LeMond on the witness stand. That wasn't nice either.

But its over. its past. I'm sure he wouldn't do it again.

 

[JV1973]

Speaking of donkeys, which buys have you regretted the most?

It would not be cool of me to list them. sorry.

 

[Digger]

Joerg was not a guy I got along with. He begged and pleaded for a spot on my team, but I wasn't interested. Just on a personal level.
I never tested Kohl either. Doesn't mean I can't think he's not talented. Its just an opinion. you view it as hypocrisy, but its not. its a simple opinion.

I'm not discrediting Kohl, I'm saying I don't think he was a great talent.
I don't always get it right on talent, eh? I've bought some donkeys in my day.

But whatever, man.... Please dedicate you life to this. I'm sure it will result in something. hah!

Yea well you've dedicated your life to anti doping....

I like Alberto, I think he’s a nice guy and an unbelievable talent