JV talks, sort of

[JRTinMA]

Since JV is a poster on this forum he deserves the same protections as any other poster. Some of the posts are frankly insulting and thats a violation of the forum rules. You babies would be hitting the report button if it was turned around.

 

[BroDeal]

Now THIS is a damn good question! Thank you.

Yes, I do talk to all of my riders very honestly when it comes to my past. And I gave Andrew a freecking earful after that comment. You have to remember, they have their own minds, own opinions, and I don't expect them to be my puppets.

I think Andrew is just tired of cycling past trumping cycling present for headlines. He expressed that the wrong way, he knows that now, but he's learning. He's a stubborn *** hole. But that's just the reason he'll be an excellent rider one day.

So last year with the quote below, Wiggins knew full well that he was feeding the public a load of sh!t as he cast doubt on whether Armstrong doped and trashed Landis as well. Wiggins does not have the excuse of being a young rider with a lot to learn.

“I’ve always been a bit of a fan of Lance and have sided on the side of innocent until proven guilty with him. There isn’t an athlete or a cyclist out there that isn’t more tested than he is, certainly since his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested cyclist in the pro peloton and you take that on face value and that he’s never failed a drugs test and until he does he’s clean. That’s how I’ve always had as a stance on Lance.

“All the other stuff that’s come on with Landis and things like that is one for the courts and whether the truth will ever come out is down to this investigation. I think time will tell with that. As it stands today, with the time I’ve raced with him – and I’ve never raced with him in his era of winning seven Tours – but in his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested athlete and never failed a drugs test.

“I think you have to question Landis’ credibility because he lied under oath before and the stories that you hear about him drinking and things like that and you know, [making] telephone calls to people I know, threatening them with things, you just think that the guy appears to not all be there. So when you see these kinds of claims in the press you have to question his credibility because it’s almost like it’s coming from a mad man, but at the same time maybe that’s all borne out of frustration and things.

“You just never know but you just look at the way his life has gone over the last five years and you think there’s one person who it would have been so easy to have just admitted it when it happened in 2006, come clean if he did do it and he would have been back racing in a professional team making pretty good money. It’s quite sad how his life has gone away, just dwindled away and now there’s all these claims and counter claims and it’s quite a sad story for him.”

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Nice seeing JV posting here again.

As I've said before, I don't envy his position.

At the very least he's still in the game, and I'm sure helping out a lot of developing riders. And no, I don't mean THAT kind of help...

At least he's here as a current DS/manager and is willing to answer some of the tougher questions (albeit, obliquely at times).

Whatever he did in the past is of no consequence as he's here now, running a top-tier team and not shying away from too much.

Sh*t, it's pro sport! It's equal parts marketing, diplomacy, and sport.

As I said, not an enviable place to be...

 

[JV1973]

Ok, this is the clinic and I might as well get it off my chest.

Bah, let's try indirectly first.

There's one rider at Garmin currently who I very much believe had been up to no good at his previous team (not US Postal or CSC). He seems to be back to a more human level now though.

So anyways, are there certain people who are, let's say more of a risk than others? Any indications that they (if they exist of course) might be tempted to go back to what they are used to?

I think you'd find examples of that across the peloton. I'm confident that "up to no good" isn't happening on my team from anyone. I make it abundantly clear that anti-doping is first, results second. Any sponsor signing up with us knows that this is the deal (maybe why we don't get the huge $$$ sponsors??? kidding... I hope)...Maybe this is why we act like little kids on the podium every time we win something: because we're always shocked when we actually win!

Now, can I babysit each and every rider, each and every day? no. But i try to give guys 2nd, and even 3rd or 4th chances when it comes to performances or otherwise. I don't push guys out based on one bad performance. This sometimes limits us, and makes people say we don't win enough or are too soft. But I'd rather take that heat that implicitly pressure a guy into the place I ended up.

It's a tightrope. I can only pray I walk it well and don't fall off.

 

[JV1973]

So last year with the quote below, Wiggins knew full well that he was feeding the public a load of sh!t as he cast doubt on whether Armstrong doped and trashed Landis as well. Wiggins does not have the excuse of being a young rider with a lot to learn.

“I’ve always been a bit of a fan of Lance and have sided on the side of innocent until proven guilty with him. There isn’t an athlete or a cyclist out there that isn’t more tested than he is, certainly since his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested cyclist in the pro peloton and you take that on face value and that he’s never failed a drugs test and until he does he’s clean. That’s how I’ve always had as a stance on Lance.

“All the other stuff that’s come on with Landis and things like that is one for the courts and whether the truth will ever come out is down to this investigation. I think time will tell with that. As it stands today, with the time I’ve raced with him – and I’ve never raced with him in his era of winning seven Tours – but in his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested athlete and never failed a drugs test.

“I think you have to question Landis’ credibility because he lied under oath before and the stories that you hear about him drinking and things like that and you know, [making] telephone calls to people I know, threatening them with things, you just think that the guy appears to not all be there. So when you see these kinds of claims in the press you have to question his credibility because it’s almost like it’s coming from a mad man, but at the same time maybe that’s all borne out of frustration and things.

“You just never know but you just look at the way his life has gone over the last five years and you think there’s one person who it would have been so easy to have just admitted it when it happened in 2006, come clean if he did do it and he would have been back racing in a professional team making pretty good money. It’s quite sad how his life has gone away, just dwindled away and now there’s all these claims and counter claims and it’s quite a sad story for him.”

Yes, that was a statement not in touch with reality, at all. Agreed.

 

[JV1973]

So last year with the quote below, Wiggins knew full well that he was feeding the public a load of sh!t as he cast doubt on whether Armstrong doped and trashed Landis as well. Wiggins does not have the excuse of being a young rider with a lot to learn.

“I’ve always been a bit of a fan of Lance and have sided on the side of innocent until proven guilty with him. There isn’t an athlete or a cyclist out there that isn’t more tested than he is, certainly since his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested cyclist in the pro peloton and you take that on face value and that he’s never failed a drugs test and until he does he’s clean. That’s how I’ve always had as a stance on Lance.

“All the other stuff that’s come on with Landis and things like that is one for the courts and whether the truth will ever come out is down to this investigation. I think time will tell with that. As it stands today, with the time I’ve raced with him – and I’ve never raced with him in his era of winning seven Tours – but in his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested athlete and never failed a drugs test.

“I think you have to question Landis’ credibility because he lied under oath before and the stories that you hear about him drinking and things like that and you know, [making] telephone calls to people I know, threatening them with things, you just think that the guy appears to not all be there. So when you see these kinds of claims in the press you have to question his credibility because it’s almost like it’s coming from a mad man, but at the same time maybe that’s all borne out of frustration and things.

“You just never know but you just look at the way his life has gone over the last five years and you think there’s one person who it would have been so easy to have just admitted it when it happened in 2006, come clean if he did do it and he would have been back racing in a professional team making pretty good money. It’s quite sad how his life has gone away, just dwindled away and now there’s all these claims and counter claims and it’s quite a sad story for him.”

While I admire Brad as an athlete, I can tell you he was a nightmare to work with and certainly did not listen to much advice I gave him...beyond "wow, brad, most of your power produced in a 4 minute pursuit is via aerobic metabolism...that's unique...You could be a stage racer"

And that's where Brad and I stopped.

 

[JV1973]

You guys should go read the NY Times Op-Ed section. Should be an endless well for giving me ****.

 

[roundabout]

I think you'd find examples of that across the peloton. I'm confident that "up to no good" isn't happening on my team from anyone. I make it abundantly clear that anti-doping is first, results second. Any sponsor signing up with us knows that this is the deal (maybe why we don't get the huge $$$ sponsors??? kidding... I hope)...Maybe this is why we act like little kids on the podium every time we win something: because we're always shocked when we actually win!

Now, can I babysit each and every rider, each and every day? no. But i try to give guys 2nd, and even 3rd or 4th chances when it comes to performances or otherwise. I don't push guys out based on one bad performance. This sometimes limits us, and makes people say we don't win enough or are too soft. But I'd rather take that heat that implicitly pressure a guy into the place I ended up.

It's a tightrope. I can only pray I walk it well and don't fall off.

Thanks for the answer.

I am not saying that Garmin as a team pushes riders to get results at all costs, no. But a temptation to get back to the "previous level" may exist, or at least getting a better deal with another team more tolerant of bad behavior.

I suppose I can't really think of outbound transfers from Garmin who started to fly on other teams which is a good thing. Still, fame and fortune may seem tempting.

 

[JV1973]

Thanks for the answer.

I am not saying that Garmin as a team pushes riders to get results at all costs, no. But a temptation to get back to the "previous level" may exist, or at least getting a better deal with another team more tolerant of bad behavior.

I suppose I can't really think of outbound transfers from Garmin who started to fly on other teams which is a good thing. Still, fame and fortune may seem tempting.

fame and fortune always are. i can only do my best. but i'm pretty confident.

 

[hrotha]

Now THIS is a damn good question! Thank you.

Yes, I do talk to all of my riders very honestly when it comes to my past. And I gave Andrew a freecking earful after that comment. You have to remember, they have their own minds, own opinions, and I don't expect them to be my puppets.

I think Andrew is just tired of cycling past trumping cycling present for headlines. He expressed that the wrong way, he knows that now, but he's learning. He's a stubborn *** hole. But that's just the reason he'll be an excellent rider one day.

Thanks, very interesting reply (especially the bit about the little private scolding).

But I think part of the problem, or of the disconnect, is that Talansky seemed to see this as a matter of dealing with the past of the sport, and you seem to be roughly of the same opinion, whereas for most Clinic regulars this is also very much about fixing the present and future of the sport by removing certain characters who we think are completely toxic, who have never paid for their deeds and who are still involved in the sport (like Bruyneel, Ferrari, Pepe Martí or the whole UCI) or who were involved until very recently (like Armstrong).

Personally, I'm worried that this may not be coming across to your riders and staff properly the way you're telling them the story. With things like those tweets by Talansky, the kind of stuff Weltz said or the whole White/Lowe/Del Moral fiasco, you have to wonder, how many at Garmin do not really share your views, and are those views coming across properly?

 

[BroDeal]

Yes, that was a statement not in touch with reality, at all. Agreed.

That is the problem with your approach, which entails a lack of transparency. With as much as possible kept behind closed doors, there will always be the incentive for people in the sport to shade the truth in order to avoid public doubt. It will be easy to believe that the public,at least the vast majority, will not be able to discern misdirection or even outright lies. Beyond deceiving the public with words, there will be a tempting abyss of corruption to fall into, where words give way to action. It is easy to do wrong in secret.

 

[JV1973]

Thanks, very interesting reply (especially the bit about the little private scolding).

But I think part of the problem, or of the disconnect, is that Talansky seemed to see this as a matter of dealing with the past of the sport, and you seem to be roughly of the same opinion, whereas for most Clinic regulars this is also very much about fixing the present and future of the sport by removing certain characters who we think are completely toxic, who have never paid for their deeds and who are still involved in the sport (like Bruyneel, Ferrari, Pepe Martí or the whole UCI) or who were involved until very recently (like Armstrong).

Personally, I'm worried that this may not be coming across to your riders and staff properly the way you're telling them the story. With things like those tweets by Talansky, the kind of stuff Weltz said or the whole White/Lowe/Del Moral fiasco, you have to wonder, how many at Garmin do not really share your views, and are those views coming across properly?

Lance is a much more intimidating person than I am. If I disagree with you, I say it to you, calmly, and explain my point. Sometimes these guys are more driven by fear than logic. The message is getting through, but they still don't want to publicly say a cross word re Lance. Why? Do you like hate mail? They don't either...

Let me put it to you more simply: Johnny Weltz got demoted at USPS because of Lance. What do you think JOhnny really feels?

Andrew Talansky had 2 offers to turn pro: one from us, one from radio shack. Who did he choose?

 

[roundabout]

fame and fortune always are. i can only do my best. but i'm pretty confident.

Any particular reason for this confidence? Because I believe that there is at least 1 rider on Garmin currently who may be able to get better results elsewhere. Or at the very least that rider has a very low chance of getting to the previous level relative to the opposition while at Garmin.

Is the sport cleaner to the point that gains from doping are balanced by better team structures, training etc so there's less incentive to cheat? Is the testing stringent enough that doping is unlikely to happen? Does the mumbo jumbo hypnosis about not doping again work? *wink-wink* about the last one.

The cynic in me however thinks that he is just running a bit scared because of recent developments that had little to do with people within cycling.

He is certainly a rider that I am following with interest as an indirect indicator of what is going on.

 

[roundabout]

Interesting info about Talansky. Have there been people who were offered a contract at Garmin, but signed elsewhere?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

You guys should go read the NY Times Op-Ed section. Should be an endless well for giving me ****.

Heres the link

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/o...sports.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytopinion&seid=auto

Vaughters on doping

I’ve been there, and I know. I chose to lie over killing my dream. I chose to dope. I am sorry for that decision, and I deeply regret it.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

I make it abundantly clear that anti-doping is first, results second. Any sponsor signing up with us knows that this is the deal (maybe why we don't get the huge $$$ sponsors??? kidding... I hope)...Maybe this is why we act like little kids on the podium every time we win something: because we're always shocked when we actually win!

I can't figure out why. As a whole, the race is clean, and doping is controlled to the point that it's almost irrelevant, from a pure performance perspective.

Right?

 

[hrotha]

Lance is a much more intimidating person than I am. If I disagree with you, I say it to you, calmly, and explain my point. Sometimes these guys are more driven by fear than logic. The message is getting through, but they still don't want to publicly say a cross word re Lance. Why? Do you like hate mail? They don't either...

Let me put it to you more simply: Johnny Weltz got demoted at USPS because of Lance. What do you think JOhnny really feels?

Andrew Talansky had 2 offers to turn pro: one from us, one from radio shack. Who did he choose?

Wow, I always assumed all those comments about Lance's army of interns were little more than a private joke, but now I'm not so sure. I'm still a bit puzzled because it's one thing to make a non-statement to avoid Lance's wrath, but actually defending him in public is a whole different matter - although I suppose old habits die hard (thinking of Weltz here). Also, this just goes to show how poisonous that LA guy and his entourage are and how crucial it is to get rid of them for the future of the sport.

But regardless, if you say the message *is* getting through and all the folks at Garmin are on the same page, that's very reassuring. See, despite all my cynicism, I actually want to believe.

PS: Just read the NY Times article. I thought it was going to be another non-confession, and then blam! And you managed to get it into a coherent article with a larger scope, and without making a show out of it, too. Congratulations on the well-written piece, and huge respect for finally coming out to the general public. I hope the backlash is not too bad.

 

[the big ring]

Heres the link

Thank you.

And thank you JV for the article.

I am sure it's entirely innocent, but I smirked knowingly regardless.

THEN, just short of finally living your childhood dream, you are told, either straight out or implicitly, by some coaches, mentors, even the boss, that you aren’t going to make it, unless you cheat.

 

[Race Radio]

Very compelling article by JV

I chose to lie over killing my dream. I chose to dope. I am sorry for that decision, and I deeply regret it. The guilt I felt led me to retire from racing and start a professional cycling team where that choice was taken out of the equation through rigorous testing and a cultural shift that emphasized racing clean above winning. The choice for my athletes was eliminated.

Now watch who tries to leverage it for personal gain

 

[131313]

Personally, I'm worried that this may not be coming across to your riders and staff properly the way you're telling them the story. With things like those tweets by Talansky, the kind of stuff Weltz said or the whole White/Lowe/Del Moral fiasco, you have to wonder, how many at Garmin do not really share your views, and are those views coming across properly?

To JV's defense, some guys definitely got the message. One guy a few years ago who had on his blog a sonnet expressing his love for LA learned the reality pretty soon after joining the team, and promptly removed it. JV telling him the truth about his hero was the reason. In this guy's defense, he was pretty young and led a very sheltered life...

To JV, great job to the boys at Utah today.

 

[will10]

Thanks to JV for the article. Will be interesting to see the response it receives.

 

[Pastavore]

JV, great article. Thank you.

 

[Ingenerius]

Want to chime in too and say thanks for the article and admission JV. Oh, how we have waited

Now I like your credibility.

 

[gerundium]

just wanted to pop in here and say it takes balls for a person in the spotlight like JV to come here and jump in amongst the sharks to be judged by them and engage in the debate.

That shows a lot of character and commitment and i applaud him for it.