JV1973 Appreciation Society

[blackcat]

No - Pro Cycling shouldn't teach us not to believe -but it should teach us to question, probe and examine the facts - thats a big difference.

errr, that is the starting point. Be sceptical. Do not believe. Or, you can, and receive all your information from twitter.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

errr, that is the starting point. Be sceptical. Do not believe. Or, you can, and receive all your information from twitter.

Which I believe is American Centric

 

[blackcat]

Which I believe is American Centric

yes, but implicit in the default status of "dont believe", was inform ones self.

 

[scribe]

JV is entitled to talk to Contador - however if I am correct in my view of AC than the only Argyle he will be wearing is if someone buys him nice socks for Christmas.

I heard him and Paulino bought matching argyle socks this spring and are looking to re-gift them this Xmas.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Maybe JV believes Contador is really doing it clean. Puerto was a long time ago now, at some point cycling has to let that go and focus on today. Maybe Contador is good enough that he actually is doing it clean. I know a bunch will totally disagree with that, I'm not sure that I don't. But it is possible, anything is possible.

+1

If he just kicked **** on the climbs and then let Cancellara win the TT I would feel a lot happier about him.

The wind changed, because of course shape it favored riders that went later. I did some very simple analysis of the time trial results from 08 & 09. I found some evidence (not proof!) that Cancellara didn't go as well this year compared with the rest of the field.

Whenever I have looked thoroughly into information from a single race day, that posters present as almost irrefutable evidence someone was doping, I come to the same conclusion: There really could be another explanation, they really might have been riding clean. (e.g. so far, the best estimate is perhaps a 30% chance for Contador riding Vebier clean)

So, thanks to JV, and everyone else who has provided some real life information.....it makes it much easier "for anyone with objectivity to find the true facts"

 

[Race Radio]

JV.

Hopefully you can answer a question for us. I hear that Enrico Gasparatto might be riding for you guys next year. I expect it would be impossible to field a team if you excluded everyone who has "Played with the hot sauce"....regardless did his working with Ferrari in the past cause you concern?

 

[JV1973]

No Gasparotto. We do need an Italian at some point, but my favorite, Pinotti, was taken.

As for Alberto, maybe the one thing everyone hasnt considered is that I don't know if he's clean or not? I have some very good sources that say he is, however I also am very capable of reading "AC" in Puerto reports. So, the reality is this: I dont know.

Maybe if I could see his historical blood values, I'd know? However, I havent, so I cant say.

Did I know talking to him would **** off Kimmage et al? Yes, of course. But do I think there's a good chance he's just that good despite the skepticism? Yes, I do. Maybe I'm stupid and naive too?

When I've sat with Alberto and talked, he seems like a very genuine and good person. He is immensely gifted and competitive, but he is attached to his family and long term friends in a way that is rare for people that are only driven by greed. Just my gut. I don't have blood records, I don't have DNA... I have one dinner in Madrid and a few phone calls. So, take that as you will.

I spoke to Paul about this for a long time one night. I listen to Paul and I also listen to David Walsh. Contrary to what some may think, I actually consider both of these guys friends and I respect the work they do. Anyhow, Paul and I got into it over AC, but he listened to me and I listened to him. I see all the different angles on these issues, I just try to make decisions that are correct for the sport and correct for my organization. Selling out the soul of our team doesnt make sense for a Tour victory. It would not be a pragmatic, long term business decision, plus it would really **** off guys like Dan Martin and Danny Pate. So, unless I feel that AC is doing what he's doing now, clean, he wont come to our team. I also would need to know he would fit in with our rather eclectic crew. It probably wont be a consideration anyway, due to contracts, but just to make my point...

Honestly, I kinda think with AC on a diluted and disorganized team, Lance and Levi a bit old...that maybe..., just maybe the 2010 Tour comes down to Wiggo and CVV vs. Andy Schleck.

Just an optimistic guess...JV

 

[180mmCrank]

Honestly, I kinda think with AC on a diluted and disorganized team, Lance and Levi a bit old...that maybe..., just maybe the 2010 Tour comes down to Wiggo and CVV vs. Andy Schleck.

Just an optimistic guess...JV

Nothing wrong with being optimistic

Although it felt a bit like AC was on a "diluted and disorganized team" this year at times. Not neglecting the fact that they did their job on the road - the off road antics was something to see... unhelpful twittering, launching new teams etc

I thought AC was pretty majestic under the circumstances and anyone who wants to push him off the top spot will need to do something pretty special.

Looking forward to it already...

 

[blackcat]

No Gasparotto. We do need an Italian at some point, but my favorite, Pinotti, was taken.

As for Alberto, maybe the one thing everyone hasnt considered is that I don't know if he's clean or not? I have some very good sources that say he is, however I also am very capable of reading "AC" in Puerto reports. So, the reality is this: I dont know.

Maybe if I could see his historical blood values, I'd know? However, I havent, so I cant say.

Did I know talking to him would **** off Kimmage et al? Yes, of course. But do I think there's a good chance he's just that good despite the skepticism? Yes, I do. Maybe I'm stupid and naive too?

When I've sat with Alberto and talked, he seems like a very genuine and good person. He is immensely gifted and competitive, but he is attached to his family and long term friends in a way that is rare for people that are only driven by greed. Just my gut. I don't have blood records, I don't have DNA... I have one dinner in Madrid and a few phone calls. So, take that as you will.

I spoke to Paul about this for a long time one night. I listen to Paul and I also listen to David Walsh. Contrary to what some may think, I actually consider both of these guys friends and I respect the work they do. Anyhow, Paul and I got into it over AC, but he listened to me and I listened to him. I see all the different angles on these issues, I just try to make decisions that are correct for the sport and correct for my organization. Selling out the soul of our team doesnt make sense for a Tour victory. It would not be a pragmatic, long term business decision, plus it would really **** off guys like Dan Martin and Danny Pate. So, unless I feel that AC is doing what he's doing now, clean, he wont come to our team. I also would need to know he would fit in with our rather eclectic crew. It probably wont be a consideration anyway, due to contracts, but just to make my point...

Honestly, I kinda think with AC on a diluted and disorganized team, Lance and Levi a bit old...that maybe..., just maybe the 2010 Tour comes down to Wiggo and CVV vs. Andy Schleck.

Just an optimistic guess...JV

lol

On Contador, you have mentioned before "growing heads" (hgh). Have you noticed the changing morphology of Contador's face? Take a look at the appearance altering, and not just thru aging and low body fat and white tissue atrophy.

You may like to speak to Werner Franke and his material.

I also have some sources formerly in Spain and well conected to Fuji, Caisse and Euskadi. He told me his mail was Valverde had cleaned up, and so was Luis Leon. I know when Luis Leon was clean, decidedly mediocre, like Landis is now. Then he comes out in 09 and wins Med and is on a roll. See where he was in the 07 Worlds chrono.

If they are clean now, it means an enormous legacy from PEDs, effectively, they should be banned on their previous practices, because they have such a lag and residual effect. Ofcourse, no natural justice just burning them on the stake, do not advocate that, just making a finding.

I know Walsh reckons Wiggins doped for July. Whether or not he tells you or goes on record.

 

[blackcat]

one other thing on Garmin. In or after the 2008 Tour, Millar was quite bombastic and snarky, saying "Evans needs to prove he is clean and get a testing program". That just seemed the most self-righteous thing in cycling (besides me on this forum ) and left me shaking my head at the bad form.

Why on earth did Millar say this. I could speculate? Guilty conscience, trying to stress the relevancy of their program even tho he and Vande Velde were beating it. He "may" have known something. There was some noise coming out of Germany, that Evans had worked with Ferrari, whether or not it was conflated with Rogers, I do not know.

I don't like Evans, think he is a nutcase, but if he is riding clean (and only few would actually know, or one for certain) then that was about the least diplomatic thing a team owner could possibly say.

Millar should drop the hubris and show some humility there. Pointing fingers and innuendo and self-righteousness is for clowns like me. It was perpetuating Garmin's exceptionalism myth, and had an underlying message.

Lucky Evans cannot hurt you guys (Garmin).

 

[JV1973]

Sorry, my memory doesn't go back far enough to remember what David was saying about Cadel. I dont know the context either, which is important. Cadel must not have minded, as he remains friends with Millar and I've never heard of any bad blood between those two.

Anyhow, I guess you have better information and ideas than I do, so I'm not really sure what to say? I figured i'd try to answer some questions and concerns that i read on this forum. But if you have more exact information than I do, then I'm the one who needs to be asking you the questions.

I just throw my opinions out there. Not everyone has to like them, I'm very aware of that.

Please give David (Walsh) my regards if you speak with him before I do, JV

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, my memory doesn't go back far enough to remember what David was saying about Cadel. I dont know the context either, which is important. Cadel must not have minded, as he remains friends with Millar and I've never heard of any bad blood between those two.

Anyhow, I guess you have better information and ideas than I do, so I'm not really sure what to say? I figured i'd try to answer some questions and concerns that i read on this forum. But if you have more exact information than I do, then I'm the one who needs to be asking you the questions.

I just throw my opinions out there. Not everyone has to like them, I'm very aware of that.

Please give David (Walsh) my regards if you speak with him before I do, JV

You know, from the tone of your first post where you said something to the effect of "I don't know why I am bothering" to the end of this post, let me say, don't feel like you have to slum here with the fans. You are an important guy with important things to do, and we peons and our theories and conspiracies are far beneath your vaunted status in the world. I am sure you have some wine to drink and cheese to eat, so don't feel like you need to dirty yourself here anymore.

 

[Colonel]

JV1973

1stly I would like to say I appreciate you coming here and giving your point of view and I do find it very insightful but at the same time I am alittle more to the darkside when I sit on the fence wrt doping in the Pro Peloton.

I do however want to ask you a pretty serious question:

You claim your team is clean and you run a clean shop. I do not doubt that and have no proof that suggests otherwise and it does seem that way other than maybe you guys are on a similiar program to the USPS/Disco/Astana set up and it is better than the Anti-doping system.

BUT giving you benefit of the doubt what would you say IF one of your riders tests positive for EPO, Blood Doping etc?

Would your anti doping internal system be a waste of time or do you think you would get a serious lashing from the Walshes of the world etc saying that you only had it so you could keep your riders in check? Would your team be tarnished from that day on?

 

[Hugh Januss]

You know, from the tone of your first post where you said something to the effect of "I don't know why I am bothering" to the end of this post, let me say, don't feel like you have to slum here with the fans. You are an important guy with important things to do, and we peons and our theories and conspiracies are far beneath your vaunted status in the world. I am sure you have some wine to drink and cheese to eat, so don't feel like you need to dirty yourself here anymore.

Wow, to think just yesterday I almost accused you of mellowing.............

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, to think just yesterday I almost accused you of mellowing.............

You know, I used to hang out with a couple of rock stars. People who are recognized all over the world, and while doing so ran into the "Why do I bother with the little people" attitude many times. I just have no patience for it. Great, you run a successful cycling team. People know who you are. I am pretty sure the worms wont hold a special party for either of us.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You know, I used to hang out with a couple of rock stars. People who are recognized all over the world, and while doing so ran into the "Why do I bother with the little people" attitude many times. I just have no patience for it. Great, you run a successful cycling team. People know who you are. I am pretty sure the worms wont hold a special party for either of us.

Yes, but I respect the fact that JV comes on here and speaks for himself, rather than hiring shills to do it anonymously like certain others seem to do.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but I respect the fact that JV comes on here and speaks for himself, rather than hiring shills to do it anonymously like certain others seem to do.

You know, when it is done with a belittling attitude, I have no use for it. Come here and state what you know (which, considering his position is considerable and could be enlightening) as it is and I see no problem. Come here with the attitude that "I am not sure why I am bothering" and anything you have to say is the same stuff we would get from someone like Armstrong.

I don't have a huge problem with he or his team. In fact, as I have said before, I am a fan of Garmin. However, I can only hope that his riders show more humility than he appears to have.

 

[Jonathan]

Yes, but I respect the fact that JV comes on here and speaks for himself, rather than hiring shills to do it anonymously like certain others seem to do.

That would not be money well spent.

 

[Hugh Januss]

That would not be money well spent.

Certainly not if he pays by the word. PBC talks a lot but says very little.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes, but I respect the fact that JV comes on here and speaks for himself, rather than hiring shills to do it anonymously like certain others seem to do.

Well said HJ - I hope he continues to engage with us and speak for himself.

JV I am going to ask some direct questions on the Biological Passport as you recently made comments defending it and said that it is something the Cycling community should be proud of.

However if we - the members of the forum and cycling fans - had confidence in the system then wouldn't it be fair to assume that you wouldn't need to come in here and defend your riders - or even Contador for that matter?

Your comments from Cyclingnews article:
"I respect Walsh and his anti-doping stance. That being said, I don't like criticism of the biological passport. I understand that it isn't perfect, like any anti-doping technology, but it is the best technology that we've got right now, and I think it's something that the sport should be immensely proud of. No one has done this before and we're pushing the boundaries to the far edge. We've got to be proud of that".

Danilo Di Luca was found non negative for CERA in July - the UCI were quick to point out that it was through targeted information from the Biological Passport.
However the reason for the Biological Passport was to sanction riders who had suspicious values.

My questions are:
Why should we feel proud in a $5 million system that fails in its primary objective?

And why is you said "I don't like criticism of of the Biological Passport"?

 

[Dude17]

You know, I used to hang out with a couple of rock stars. People who are recognized all over the world, and while doing so ran into the "Why do I bother with the little people" attitude many times. I just have no patience for it. Great, you run a successful cycling team. People know who you are. I am pretty sure the worms wont hold a special party for either of us.

I didn't take JV's comments to be "I won't bother with the little people." To me they were more, "I'm not sure it will change any minds, but I'll tell you what I know and most of you will not believe me."

If you want to take his participation as the first meaning above, that is one reading of his comments and it is your right to feel that way. I tend toward the second interpretation.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't take JV's comments to be "I won't bother with the little people." To me they were more, "I'm not sure it will change any minds, but I'll tell you what I know and most of you will not believe me."

If you want to take his participation as the first meaning above, that is one reading of his comments and it is your right to feel that way. I tend toward the second interpretation.

"Ok, I know I'm nuts for even bothering here, but here goes"
by JV1973

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=73723#post73723

Combine that with the tone of his last post, and we definitely interpret this differently.

However, if I misread the post, then I offer my apologizes.

 

[Digger]

No I thought he was a bit sarcastic with Blackcat, but it was well deserved. You often get these guys on message boards who pretend to have better contacts that anyone - and can even spot doping from looking at peoples ears! Why anyone from the professional sport would bother wasting their time with these guys is a mistery to me, so well done to JV for putting up with it at all.

My question for you BPC, what is a 'mistery'? Can't find it in the dictionary and i have a feeling that I'll understand your post if I can understand that word.

 

[Dude17]

"Ok, I know I'm nuts for even bothering here, but here goes"
by JV1973

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=73723#post73723

Combine that with the tone of his last post, and we definitely interpret this differently.

However, if I misread the post, then I offer my apologizes.

Well, his first statement still fits my second meaning interpretation. The last post of his was after two posts by Blackcat that said basically, "I've got this great information you may not be aware of," and seemed to imply contacts (with Walsh, for one) and deep knowledge beyond what JV has. So, JV got a bit snarky back. Do you blame him?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

My question for you BPC, what is a 'mistery'? Can't find it in the dictionary and i have a feeling that I'll understand your post if I can understand that word.

Its American Centric - you wouldn't understand.