Kimmage, Macur and others on Armstrong

[Digger]

Time and time again you see people like Flicker criticising Walsh and Kimmage. You the ask 'have you read their work?'
The answer almost invariably is along the lines of 'I don't need to'. How more ignorant can people be? Which is the crux of hte Lance story - his fans don't want to find out anything whatsoever which may lead them down the road of there aren't fairytales. People want Hollywood and the truth is sordid.

 

[MacRoadie]

You know you remind me of those people who rail against a book/film that offends them, but when questioned admit they've not read/seen it.

Hell no, I ain't gonna read "To Kill a Mockingbird". I've seen enough birds and read plenty of hunting magazines in my day. That book ain't gonna teach me nuthin...

"The Catcher in the Rye"? Why waste my time? First off it's stupid to play baseball in a rye field, you just keep losing the ball. Anyway, it's probably just a remake of "Field of Dreams"...

 

[Benotti69]

Time and time again you see people like Flicker criticising Walsh and Kimmage. You the ask 'have you read their work?'
The answer almost invariably is along the lines of 'I don't need to'. How more ignorant can people be? Which is the crux of hte Lance story - his fans don't want to find out anything whatsoever which may lead them down the road of there aren't fairytales. People want Hollywood and the truth is sordid.

Flicker long ago realised the truth about Armstrong. he is on here because he gets a kick out of trolling for the guy. simples. you cant spend half your life in the clinic and not realise the truth...Polish, Flickie, cobstoned etc...all have a man crush on the guy and one arm bigger than other for LA.

 

[MacRoadie]

Flicker long ago realised the truth about Armstrong. he is on here because he gets a kick out of trolling for the guy.

He must also have a perverse desire to be thought an idiot 30 times a day...

 

[D-Queued]

Dave, I admit I am illiterate. Please PM me and send me my free copy, I will ask' my eyes' my 10 yr. old son to read it to me. Maybe it will open his eyes up too to the 'utter rotteness of cycling.'

You don't have to admit to being illiterate (there is obviously the possibility that you are using a speach to text program). You don't have to be illiterate to be willfully ignorant, however. There are plenty of good examples of the willfully ignorant promoting themselves as experts.

Thank you for confirming this for us.

While this has been obvious to many for some time, it is always nice to have a little honesty to clear the air. Perhaps the polite thing to do is ignore you since nothing else can ever be expected in return.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

He must also have a perverse desire to be thought an idiot 30 times a day...

any publicity is good publicity to Flickie....the fact that he thinks people think about him no doubt gives him wood

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Flicker long ago realised the truth about Armstrong. he is on here because he gets a kick out of trolling for the guy. simples. you cant spend half your life in the clinic and not realise the truth...Polish, Flickie, cobstoned etc...all have a man crush on the guy and one arm bigger than other for LA.

Or maybe they are just fans of LA and do not have the same opinion that you have.

I think it is bad to comment on a book that you have not read. It makes your opinion have much less weight no doubt. Flicker if you do have bad eye’s etc. then go ahead and have your son read it to you. I doubt it will crush anyone’s love of cycling (in my opinion).

I will say that I think Kimmage and Walsh are a couple of fish hacks writing for multi colored fish wraps. That does not mean their writing is fiction. They appear to be two fish hacks on the trail of some large catch.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Face it. These days, Flicker (and Polish) don't have the time to read a book.

 

[Kennf1]

Funnily enough, his list reminds me of someone who was stuck for something to say and googled 'famous cyclist names'.

Yes, putting the last names before first was a giveaway. But maybe that's how things are done in the Armstrong, Lance camp.

 

[flicker]

Time and time again you see people like Flicker criticising Walsh and Kimmage. You the ask 'have you read their work?'
The answer almost invariably is along the lines of 'I don't need to'. How more ignorant can people be? Which is the crux of hte Lance story - his fans don't want to find out anything whatsoever which may lead them down the road of there aren't fairytales. People want Hollywood and the truth is sordid.

I have seen the Mona Lisa in film and foto thousnds of times. When I FINALLY saw her in the Louvre museum in 1985 even behind Glass I could feel the master DiVinci. From what I have seen from videos and reading their stuff, Walsh and Kimmage are not masters.

Further proof are the haters here who fawn upon Kimmage' and Walshs' every breath.

Not masters not even close. Fun for me to watch though.

 

[Anonymous]

im becoming more and more convinced that flicker is lance.

 

[BotanyBay]

I have seen the Mona Lisa in film and foto thousnds of times. When I FINALLY saw her in the Louvre museum in 1985 even behind Glass I could feel the master DiVinci. From what I have seen from videos and reading their stuff, Walsh and Kimmage are not masters.

Further proof are the haters here who fawn upon Kimmage' and Walshs' every breath.

Not masters not even close. Fun for me to watch though.

Perhaps you should try reading "Kimmage the recently retired pro cyclist" and not "Kimmage the anti-doping journalist". When Kimmage wrote his book, doping was a "haha, caught ya, wink-wink, here's a 30-day suspension" kinda deal.

I think you'd have a lot more respect for him if you read his writings from 1992.

 

[Granville57]

Rough Ride

What's interesting to me about the legacy of Kimmage's book is that it gets label as just an outing of the doping cultural. It is so much more than that. It is a very revealing look at life inside the peloton, on multiple levels. The detail with which he describes the brutality of the Tour is often left out (often deliberately) of people's assessment of his writing.

His retelling of the World Championships is worth the read on its own. It's just a very real accounting of the life of a pro, of which doping was inextricably bound for many. Much of the book has nothing to do with doping at all. He just tells like it was—with brutal honesty.

 

[flicker]

What's interesting to me about the legacy of Kimmage's book is that it gets label as just an outing of the doping cultural. It is so much more than that. It is a very revealing look at life inside the peloton, on multiple levels. The detail with which he describes the brutality of the Tour is often left out (often deliberately) of people's assessment of his writing.

His retelling of the World Championships is worth the read on its own. It's just a very real accounting of the life of a pro, of which doping was inextricably bound for many. Much of the book has nothing to do with doping at all. He just tells like it was—with brutal honesty.

Since I have not read Kimmages'nor Walshs' books and am now seriously thinking about it as you have whetted my appetite I would like to ask you two things. Has reading those 2 books made you appreciate cycling and enjoy cycling more?http://forum.cyclingnews.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

 

[ultimobici]

Since I have not read Kimmages'nor Walshs' books and am now seriously thinking about it as you have whetted my appetite I would like to ask you two things. Has reading those 2 books made you appreciate cycling and enjoy cycling more?http://forum.cyclingnews.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Having read both, as well as many others by different authors, it has broadened my understanding of the sport.

I was talking to a friend last night about how doping has affected our affection for the sport. While we are both disappointed in those who dope neither if us have ever considered turning away from it.

Armstrong, Vinokourov, Riis etc cannot diminish my love of this sport. I may be p1ssed off with some participants and officials but the overall is still the most beautiful of sports in my eyes.

Just so you can be sure of reading the original unadulterated version get this one from 1990.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rough-Ride...=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294946904&sr=1-7

 

[flicker]

Having read both, as well as many others by different authors, it has broadened my understanding of the sport.

I was talking to a friend last night about how doping has affected our affection for the sport. While we are both disappointed in those who dope neither if us have ever considered turning away from it.

Armstrong, Vinokourov, Riis etc cannot diminish my love of this sport. I may be p1ssed off with some participants and officials but the overall is still the most beautiful of sports in my eyes.

I totally agree with you. I rubbish Riis but I can't find it in myself to rubbish many others. I guess that makes me a bigot, I don't know.

To me we here are all like Romans watching the Gladiators at the Collisium.

What is more fun, the pre-battle anticipation, the bloody battle or when the warrior is down having the victor look up to us for us to give him the thumbs down......

 

[Digger]

I have seen the Mona Lisa in film and foto thousnds of times. When I FINALLY saw her in the Louvre museum in 1985 even behind Glass I could feel the master DiVinci. From what I have seen from videos and reading their stuff, Walsh and Kimmage are not masters.

Further proof are the haters here who fawn upon Kimmage' and Walshs' every breath.

Not masters not even close. Fun for me to watch though.

They both are multi award winning journalists and writers, yet you base your opinion on a couple of interviews they have given. Do you honestly believe your opinion is well informed? From what you have seen you say, yet you haven't seen any of their most prevalent stuff. You contradict yourself with the mona Lisa metaphor, in that you had seen the picture on film. You comment on Kimmage and have seen hardly any of his work.
You should admit that you don't want to see the truth, you only want to be entertained, and do not care how you are entertained.

 

[Digger]

Or maybe they are just fans of LA and do not have the same opinion that you have.

I think it is bad to comment on a book that you have not read. It makes your opinion have much less weight no doubt. Flicker if you do have bad eye’s etc. then go ahead and have your son read it to you. I doubt it will crush anyone’s love of cycling (in my opinion).

I will say that I think Kimmage and Walsh are a couple of fish hacks writing for multi colored fish wraps. That does not mean their writing is fiction. They appear to be two fish hacks on the trail of some large catch.

Yeah multi award winning 'fish hacks' writing for a multi award winning broadsheet. You seriously need to educate yourself before making such a stupid statement.

 

[ultimobici]

I totally agree with you. I rubbish Riis but I can't find it in myself to rubbish many others. I guess that makes me a bigot, I don't know.

To me we here are all like Romans watching the Gladiators at the Collisium.

What is more fun, the pre-battle anticipation, the bloody battle or when the warrior is down having the victor look up to us for us to give him the thumbs down......

Just because I won't abandon cycling does not mean I will not cheer from the rooftops when the investigation "hangs" Armstrong. His generation of riders are the reason our sport is up to its neck in ***. The reason I want the Postal/Armstrong fraud exposed in full is because of the collateral damage it may inflict on McQuaid & Co. That is the real prize. Armstrong is history anyway and irrelevant to the future. The UCI is still here and looking more and more inept and corrupt, if that is possible, by the day. The sooner that organisation is dismantled the better. If it requires a temporary hiatus from the Olympics maybe that is a price we have to pay.

 

[flicker]

They both are multi award winning journalists and writers, yet you base your opinion on a couple of interviews they have given. Do you honestly believe your opinion is well informed? From what you have seen you say, yet you haven't seen any of their most prevalent stuff. You contradict yourself with the mona Lisa metaphor, in that you had seen the picture on film. You comment on Kimmage and have seen hardly any of his work.
You should admit that you don't want to see the truth, you only want to be entertained, and do not care how you are entertained.

You are right I watch cycling for entertainment. If you read way back there something I wrote was that in 76 and I realized the fradulent use of PEds in the Olympics, Olympic commities who pick their own champions instead of merit based choices , yes digger it became something not real for me, entertainment, cinema. So let us keep on with this punch and judy show, shall we....

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Yeah multi award winning 'fish hacks' writing for a multi award winning broadsheet. You seriously need to educate yourself before making such a stupid statement.

It was an attempt at humor which I failed. Do you know that multi colored fish hack means just exactly what you just said. Multi award winning broadsheet etc. That is why had the part about them getting a big catch etc. Never fear I am not trying to break up the party with a different opinion or anything.

 

[AngusW]

If that same nation had just given me $2m in order to ride in the sun for a week (all expenses paid by another 3rd party), I'd donate more than 5% of that.

That would make you more than twice as generous as Mr Armstrong. Good for you!

 

[thehog]

David Walsh has been writing superb articles on the Ashes series. Really good reading. Americans don't understand cricket so its likely they think he's a troll.

 

[Digger]

You are right I watch cycling for entertainment. If you read way back there something I wrote was that in 76 and I realized the fradulent use of PEds in the Olympics, Olympic commities who pick their own champions instead of merit based choices , yes digger it became something not real for me, entertainment, cinema. So let us keep on with this punch and judy show, shall we....

And what about basssons and people like him who can't compete and win because they are not doping. Are you happy with this?

 

[BotanyBay]

Since I have not read Kimmages'nor Walshs' books and am now seriously thinking about it as you have whetted my appetite I would like to ask you two things. Has reading those 2 books made you appreciate cycling and enjoy cycling more?http://forum.cyclingnews.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

When I read Rough Ride, I didn't walk away as a doping alarmist. I walked away feeling really sad for most of the guys who advance far enough to turn pro. It's a VERY tough life. While some view it as cycling Nirvana, Kimmage showed that once money gets involved, it's an entirely different sport from the inside. You won't read Rough Ride and come out angry at the dopers. You'll come out and wonder why the riders don't band together and put an end to the mistreatment they endure at the hands of their employers. They are over-raced, over-trained, over-extended and over-exploited.