Kimmage on Wiggins, Sky

[the sceptic]

Maybe the mods haven't noticed that sceptic is on record as deliberately attempting to bait me into a ban..

sadly you are still here, trolling and clogging up threads with your idiocy.

 

[martinvickers]

you clearly do care!!! why else are you typing reply after reply!

please show me reply after reply specifically on whether you got a response from PK on this issue...take your time..

I said to you and Gooner, the answer to your question is on the internet...and is something also told to me...but for those who aren't afraid of google it's there...

Nope. you raised it. you prove it. stop being lazy/dishonest.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Do you both know how tedious these exchanges are?

+1
What a bunch of children.
The Clinic 12 replaced by the Clinic 12 year olds.
Bickering, sarcasm and ridicule, where once was informed debate.

 

[martinvickers]

+1
What a bunch of children.
The Clinic 12 replaced by the Clinic 12 year olds.
Bickering, sarcasm and ridicule, where once was informed debate.

Have you not been reading the Clinic recently, Mellow? Benson tried to put a few new rules in place - that was abandoned pretty quickly. You get the Clinic you deserve, eventually...

 

[Digger]

please show me reply after reply specifically on whether you got a response from PK on this issue...take your time..



Nope. you raised it. you prove it. stop being lazy/dishonest.

if you don't care why are you replying?!

 

[Digger]

Have you not been reading the Clinic recently, Mellow? Benson tried to put a few new rules in place - that was abandoned pretty quickly. You get the Clinic you deserve, eventually...

How many times you been cautioned or banned again?

 

[martinvickers]

How many times you been cautioned or banned again?

Why don't you go look it up, Digger?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Have you not been reading the Clinic recently, Mellow? Benson tried to put a few new rules in place - that was abandoned pretty quickly. You get the Clinic you deserve, eventually...

Not much, Martin.
I prefer my fiction written by professionals.

 

[martinvickers]

Not much, Martin.
I prefer my fiction written by professionals.

Touché, mon ami.

You kinda have to admire the hope, though. Maybe, just maybe, this year [insert least favourite rider here] will go pop.

 

[The Hitch]

+1
What a bunch of children.
The Clinic 12 replaced by the Clinic 12 year olds.
Bickering, sarcasm and ridicule, where once was informed debate.

Thats a very romantic version of the clinic past. There's always been bickering in the clinic, and there's always been informed debate.

BTW I am interested in the identity of all these great members who left in noble protest at what the clinic has become. Who were they?

And don't act like you left for any other reason than that your favourite riders got accused. You were absolutely fine with the clinic when everyone else was getting called out.

 

[The Hitch]

Touché, mon ami.

You kinda have to admire the hope, though. Maybe, just maybe, this year [insert least favourite rider here] will go pop.

yeah yeah yeah yeah. we get it. The clinic is pathetic. We are all bone idle ****ers. Everyone else in the world laughs at it. Even people who don't know about cycling laugh at it. Everyone knows Sky are actually clean and can't help laughing at these deluded folks who would make up something so ridiculous as that dominant pro cyclists could be doping.

You've said it countless times before. Now if its really so below you why do you continue posting here and whatsmore keep getting into constant bickering and spats with any user you can find?

 

[thehog]

Thats a very romantic version of the clinic past. There's always been bickering in the clinic, and there's always been informed debate.

BTW I am interested in the identity of all these great members who left in noble protest at what the clinic has become. Who were they?

And don't act like you left for any other reason than that your favourite riders got accused. You were absolutely fine with the clinic when everyone else was getting called out.

I would agree this is a good assessment.

It was fine for many when it was the American being accused.

Then the downfall happened all rather quickly when almost he got away with it.

Sadly by that point Sky had already started their assault and missed that the world had shifted overnight.

Then all those were pulling holes through Armstrong realised he same rational could be applied to Sky.

That's what makes cycling so crazy funny. It's never clean cut lines of division, us and them.

We do need Fox News so we can be told Obama should march into the Ukraine and kick out the Russians

 

[The Hitch]

They do have a point though hog. I think Mellow Velo is going too far in that he blames the whole clinic for the behaviour of some. Tries to pin the bad on us all, and now is trying to rewrite clinic history into some black white ballad where we are all at fault and we stole the clinic. Too far.

But, he has a point.

Today OPQS went "full ***" - your own phrase? Where are you in that thread? Do you care about the other teams or is it just Sky for you?

Clearly for some it is just sky. Unfortunately.
They are right on that. They are just wrong in that its not all of us.

Makes me sick mother****er how far we done fell.

 

[the sceptic]

Hog is Omar?

 

[ferryman]

They do have a point though hog. I think Mellow Velo is going too far in that he blames the whole clinic for the behaviour of some. Tries to pin the bad on us all, and now is trying to rewrite clinic history into some black white ballad where we are all at fault and we stole the clinic. Too far.

But, he has a point.

Today OPQS went "full ***" - your own phrase? Where are you in that thread? Do you care about the other teams or is it just Sky for you?

Clearly for some it is just sky. Unfortunately.
They are right on that. They are just wrong in that its not all of us.

Makes me sick mother****er how far we done fell.

A bit of a ramble Hitch and your last sentence makes no sense at all.

 

[thehog]

They do have a point though hog. I think Mellow Velo is going too far in that he blames the whole clinic for the behaviour of some. Tries to pin the bad on us all, and now is trying to rewrite clinic history into some black white ballad where we are all at fault and we stole the clinic. Too far.

But, he has a point.

Today OPQS went "full ***" - your own phrase? Where are you in that thread? Do you care about the other teams or is it just Sky for you?

Clearly for some it is just sky. Unfortunately.

They are right on that. They are just wrong in that its not all of us.

Makes me sick mother****er how far we done fell.

Melo is not to bad. I don't mind him because he thinks out what he wants to say. Even if we don't agree with each other, I respect his position.

But agree. It's not a clinic problem but a cycling problem that cycling can never be clean.

I've had this discussion that just when you think cycling is clean or a team is clean cycling just takes you for a joke.

You know when you think Sky are clean and they have ZTP etc. but they go hire Leinders and Wiggins makes endearing comments about Armstrong. Then it's not so clear cut anymore.

Cycling keeps doing that. It keeps coming up with ways to make itself look stupid. Makes it fans look stupid.

The other day someone posted that Phinney went to BMC because his mother wanted a clean team away from Armstrong. I mean you can just imagine Connie telling her son "get away from Armstrong because he's a doper. I'd like you to meet Och from BMC, he's a much better influence" !

It's all in jest but I have no idea why some try so hard to make a team clean. Is it so hard to believe teams are doping? That cyclists are doping?

It's not at all. Its very believable in fact.

Per today I've been on the Livestrong thread. I have recorded the race and will watch tonight over a glass of Merlot. So, yes, you may hear from me tomorrow on that thread. I don't want to run in their without knowing what occurred.

 

[gooner]

I already specified the people like millar he investigated, trent lowe, lim, vaughers - you dispelled it in your head!!!

Check again, I said there would have been a couple of occasions he would have done so. I didn't dismiss this but I think overall in the wider picture of his journalism over 20 years it's not a strong area for him. You were proved wrong in Smith, Nadal, Roche, and Hein/Pat. His outspoken views here were based on other people's work. He didn't believe Lance over the years but he had little or no dealing with him outside of the Cali press conference. Armstrong wasn't even sure what he looked like up to that point. Stapleton and co had no worries over him during his 7 Tour wins. Armstrong's posse were concerned with Walsh and Ballester, l'Equipe and the 6 positives and Le Monde in 99. This isn't a criticism of Kimmage but I feel it's only right to keep correcting you when you try to push certain myths.

Again you still don't know the context of the moore situation...it's from way before last summer - so get your facts straight. You honestly have no idea what you are talking about...is Kimmage meant to just continuously take crap from Moore...not that you know anything about it.

Kennaugh is a coward..and is another example of the 'gang mentality' of sky - something your boy Walsh didn't address.And again I quote you Walsh saying he has no respect for the other journos...or most of them. That's acceptable in your eyes but Kimmage isn't - eventhough you know nothing of the context of Moore and Kimmage.

Again, you won't answer the question regarding the insults thrown by Kimmage to journalists and fans. I disagree with this behaviour, likewise Kennaugh and similarly I don't agree with "my boy Walsh" referring to people who doubt Froome as bitter Armstrong fans. You accept one line of behaviour and comment over the other which suggests you're the one with the unconditional love here where it's one rule for one and another one for someone else.

Walsh had no respect for other journos when he knew for certain what was going on in USPS as a result of Le Monde in 99, the link to Ferrari uncovered, speaking to Prentice Steffen in 2001, at a later stage Emma and Betsy's stories wherby journalists were still turning a blind eye to it.

Kimmage is burning bridges when there is nothing to the same level of the above with Sky. If there was and it was the case of journalists still pushing the Sky feel good story, then I would totally understand his position now. That's not case. He ended a 30 year friendship based on that.

 

[Digger]

Check again, I said there would have been a couple of occasions he would have done so. I didn't dismiss this but I think overall in the wider picture of his journalism over 20 years it's not a strong area for him. You were proved wrong in Smith, Nadal, Roche, and Hein/Pat. His outspoken views here were based on other people's work. He didn't believe Lance over the years but he had little or no dealing with him outside of the Cali press conference. Armstrong wasn't even sure what he looked like up to that point. Stapleton and co had no worries over him during his 7 Tour wins. Armstrong's posse were concerned with Walsh and Ballester, l'Equipe and the 6 positives and Le Monde in 99. This isn't a criticism of Kimmage but I feel it's only right to keep correcting you when you try to push certain myths.



Again, you won't answer the question regarding the insults thrown by Kimmage to journalists and fans. I disagree with this behaviour, likewise Kennaugh and similarly I don't agree with "my boy Walsh" referring to people who doubt Froome as bitter Armstrong fans. You accept one line of behaviour and comment over the other which suggests you're the one with the unconditional love here where it's one rule for one and another one for someone else.

Walsh had no respect for other journos when he knew for certain what was going on in USPS as a result of Le Monde in 99, the link to Ferrari uncovered, speaking to Prentice Steffen in 2001, at a later stage Emma and Betsy's stories wherby journalists were still turning a blind eye to it.

Kimmage is burning bridges when there is nothing to the same level of the above with Sky. If there was and it was the case of journalists still pushing the Sky feel good story, then I would totally understand his position now. That's not case. He ended a 30 year friendship based on that.

In your head!!

 

[Digger]

Just so I am clear here, do gooner and martin think Sky are clean?

 

[martinvickers]

Just so I am clear here, do gooner and martin think Sky are clean?

I've set out my views before. They may not be what you assume. But go look them up.

More to the point, my views are pretty unimportant. Indeed, that's kind of my whole schtick here - I'm not interested in views, or hunches, but in actually getting evidence.

Ranting's the easy bit. Even accusing's quite simple, if you have the stomach to throw sh!t. It's proving that's the tough bit. and really the only worthwhile bit.

 

[Benotti69]

I've set out my views before. They may not be what you assume. But go look them up.

More to the point, my views are pretty unimportant. Indeed, that's kind of my whole schtick here - I'm not interested in views, or hunches, but in actually getting evidence.

Ranting's the easy bit. Even accusing's quite simple, if you have the stomach to throw sh!t. It's proving that's the tough bit. and really the only worthwhile bit.

Proving they race clean is the difficult bit...........

 

[martinvickers]

Proving they race clean is the difficult bit...........

It's the impossible bit, for reasons I've banged on about before. Hence why, realistically, it's an unfair bar to set.

#cantproveanegative

 

[Digger]

I've set out my views before. They may not be what you assume. But go look them up.

More to the point, my views are pretty unimportant. Indeed, that's kind of my whole schtick here - I'm not interested in views, or hunches, but in actually getting evidence.

Ranting's the easy bit. Even accusing's quite simple, if you have the stomach to throw sh!t. It's proving that's the tough bit. and really the only worthwhile bit.

The irony here is that it's almost verbatim what the USP fans said about Walsh. No evidence. Witch hunt. Jealous. Trying to make money. Dragging down winners. Sour grapes. No sanction.

According to many cycling fans we shook just put all our belief in the testing. Like that has worked out well.

 

[martinvickers]

The irony here is that it's almost verbatim what the USP fans said about Walsh. No evidence. Witch hunt. Jealous. Trying to make money. Dragging down winners. Sour grapes. No sanction.

According to many cycling fans we shook just put all our belief in the testing. Like that has worked out well.

I'm not aware I said ANY of those things? I think, possibly, in relation to Sky I've suggested that, SO FAR, there's a lack of real evidence, although I've referred to the presence of Leinders as a serious black mark. Which, let's be honest, is about the correct height of it at the moment. And I've defended Dan Martin and Nico Roche who there's just really nothing against, so far. I'd prefer Roche wasn't on the team he's on, but that's a personal preference.

But the rest? I'm pretty sure never suggested any of that.

 

[Granville57]

Awesome thread development here!

May I suggest another place to amuse yourselves?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=21913