Kimmage unleashes hell, counter-sues Verbruggen & McQuaid

[MarkvW]

Not too much in the Vos thread though?

Are you sure this is about chivalry, or is it really just a continuation of the feud between you and Mark?

Chewbacca is the protected attack dog of the forum. There's no point in engaging with him. He devolves to the vilest insults and if you respond in kind you get banned.

 

[gooner]

Shane Stokes writes about it in The Irish Times today.

Paul Kimmage has said that he is “very disappointed” at the news that a defence fund set up to help him in a legal battle against the cycling’s governing body now has a serious question mark over it.

Kimmage was given over $90,000 in donations by fans, journalists and others last autumn, with the fund being launched by the Nyvelocity. com and Cyclismas. com websites in order to help him out after he was sued by former UCI president Hein Verbruggen and current UCI chief Pat McQuaid.

The duo, who claimed he defamed them in two articles, subsequently put that action on hold after the Lance Armstrong ruling. However, they reserved the right to reactivate it. In the meantime Kimmage launched a criminal investigation against them in Switzerland and while this was initially rejected by the public prosecutor, an appeal had been lodged.

Kimmage told The Irish Times yesterday that he may have to suspend that appeal, and that he is also vulnerable if the UCI reactivates its case because he no longer has access to the defence funds.

On Saturday he learned from Cyclismas editor Lesli Cohen that the website’s co-founder Aaron Brown had withdrawn the money without her knowledge from the site’s PayPal account and placed it in one of his own.

“After I walked out of the interview with Marian Finucane on Saturday, Lesli contacted me and told me she had concerns about the money, where it was and what it was used for,” he said. “I contacted Aaron straight away about this.

“I asked him to provide me with a statement detailing the payments that had been made from the defence fund. He refused to give me a proper statement, other than to say that there was $64,000 in it.

“I then asked him to transfer the $64,000 to a neutral account and he has refused to do that.”

Contacted yesterday, Brown said that the sum which remained from the original total represented what was left after a sum of approximately $21,000 was paid out to Kimmage’s Swiss lawyer Cédric Aguet, plus PayPal costs.

He said that he had taken on an unforeseen tax liability which Cohen was originally hit with in relation to the donations, and was trying to settle the matter.

He said that this liability was the reason why he would not transfer the money, as requested. “If the funds are released to Paul, and I do receive a tax bill which is quite huge, then there is a massive challenge,” he said.

He also said that because Kimmage’s defence case is currently on hold, that there are no pending legal costs and thus no need for funds to be issued. He said he would release funds if they were needed.

However, Kimmage has said that he can’t verify if the money is actually there. “I have no idea if what he is saying is the case or not,” he said. “I never had any control over the setting up of the fund or how it was spent.

“The bottom line is that I have had to call my lawyer Cedric and tell him to stop. That is how it affects me. It could be that the money is still there. If so, that is great, but what if it is not? I am still going to have to pay the bills at the end of the day. So I told him to stop.”

Kimmage has long been one of the most vocal critics of the UCI. McQuaid is seeking re-election as UCI president but needs to secure nomination from either the Irish or the Swiss cycling federations. The former originally agreed to propose him, but has since backed off and decided its members will vote on the matter in an egm to be held on June 15th.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...-over-issues-involving-defence-fund-1.1379599

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Shane Stokes writes about it in The Irish Times today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...-over-issues-involving-defence-fund-1.1379599

It seems to me a simple problem to at least start to resolve. Kimmage's lawyer in Ireland sets up a new account calling it a "Litigation Account" so there is no suggestion the funds can only be used to defend the Verbruggen/McQuaid complaint and can also be used to pursue the criminal complaint. His lawyer would have to craft conditions for the fund to satisfy potential donors as to the proper use of their donations.

Many people will still donate to such a fund. I would for one. Then it may be necessary to take action against Brown as he is clearly a trustee of the funds and IF he has absconded with the funds he may be in breach of trust. A trust action could force him to hand over the funds on an interim application to the court.

 

[BroDeal]

The numbers almost add up to a misunderstanding.

$64K remaining
$21K paid out
$96K raised

$11K unaccounted for

Subtract PayPal fees. Maybe not much more than 2% if the fund was registered as a non-profit. The tax problems indicate that they did not properly set up a non-profit organization, so the fees would be higher, maybe 3%. Subtract cost to have an attorney or accountant deal with the tax issue and there is still several thousand needing to be accounted for.

The Cyclismas break-up might indicate something else is going on. Or it might not.

 

[Digger]

When this all sorts out, if there is any money missing, Cyclismas ought to make good any missing money. They promoted this thing and they ought to stand behind it. It shouldn't work to blame all the misconduct on a business associate of some sort and abdicate all responsibility (even if the business associate turns out to be the sole cause of any missing money).

You are a real POS you know that. We promoted that fund for a friend, for a guy who was bullied. A cause you agreed with.

But no, you are here now lecturing us all about what we should do as if you or anyone envisaged this. Yet you are the same guy who has no degree of balls to call the Birotte decision what it was, a political one.

Show some balls and tell that to Lesli - email her.

 

[gooner]

Paul just seems fed up and disillusioned with it all.

The week is par for the Kimmage course. After a story surfaced over his defense fund’s alleged mismanagement by Twitter personality Aaron Brown, the rider-turned-journalist told VeloNews that he took a walk with his wife and considered walking away from cycling.

“I was just was saying to her, ‘Look, I’ve just got to get out now. I feel that this is the end of the road. I don’t feel as if there is a career for me in cycling anymore.’ Not that there ever was,” Kimmage said.

“Since I was let go by the Sunday Times … I was trying to kind of figure out if there was a way for me to make a living from cycling. I thought there was, and now I don’t know anymore. Now, I’m just thinking to try and do something else now,” he said. “I don’t know.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...dog-twitter-personality-kimmage-backer_284500

 

[wansteadimp]

The numbers almost add up to a misunderstanding.

$64K remaining
$21K paid out
$96K raised

$11K unaccounted for

Subtract PayPal fees. Maybe not much more than 2% if the fund was registered as a non-profit. The tax problems indicate that they did not properly set up a non-profit organization, so the fees would be higher, maybe 3%. Subtract cost to have an attorney or accountant deal with the tax issue and there is still several thousand needing to be accounted for.

The Cyclismas break-up might indicate something else is going on. Or it might not.

Are you saying the paypal fees are 3%? If so your missing a potential payment of tax.

 

[BroDeal]

Are you saying the paypal fees are 3%? If so your missing a potential payment of tax.

There should not be any tax if they set up a non profit. If this guy was funneling the money into his personal account then he is an idiot. He should have immediately created a 501(c) and filed for federal tax exemption.

 

[Ferminal]

Does he even have a US account?

 

[hrotha]

There should not be any tax if they set up a non profit. If this guy was funneling the money into his personal account then he is an idiot. He should have immediately created a 501(c) and filed for federal tax exemption.

Aren't they saying that they didn't set it up as non-profit initially?

 

[thirteen]

Does he even have a US account?

Canadian, i believe.

 

[BroDeal]

Aren't they saying that they didn't set it up as non-profit initially?

This may be an issue of neglect or incompetence rather than malevolence. People probably should not be so hasty about vilifying Brown.

 

[frenchfry]

First off, I have absolutly no regrets about my modest donation to the fund. I would like Paul Kimmage to have total control of the funds if possible, to do what he sees best. I certainly don't want Paul to feel bad about this, and I don't want a refund.

The actual situation is quite unclear for now, it is too bad that the person who actually controls the funds hasn't cleared the air yet. This doesn't bode well, but maybe we are too impatient as in this internet age we are used to having information immediately.

I only hope the greed, self-interest and lack of values that define the current state of the world have not led to a betrayal of trust, time will tell.

Meanwhile, there is FINALLY a bit of light on the horizon here (not exactly sunny, but some promising signs) so a ride is impending. Yesterday the streetlights were on at 3PM, depressing.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

You're a big girl Mark.

Give it time. Let it play out we'll see what happened.

It's not all of the money. Just a portion.

Lets get the full set of facts before you go gunning off. This is not the Deep South. Decorum required.

Decorum is only used in places other than the Deep South?

That is a stupid statement. How about staying above cultural stereotypes or self-conceived notions about the Deep South.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I used the term 'they' as an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine he or the definite feminine she.


Ah, ok its slang.
I am sure you will use it to refer to all journalists - not just the 2 Irish award winning journalists who helped expose a sporting fraud.

Yes I use it to refer to any journo. There is a entire sports talk radio show that uses it and has many followers. Try not to make everything so personal it shows what a troll you were for making the fish bait comment.

 

[JRTinMA]

You are a real POS you know that. We promoted that fund for a friend, for a guy who was bullied. A cause you agreed with.

But no, you are here now lecturing us all about what we should do as if you or anyone envisaged this. Yet you are the same guy who has no degree of balls to call the Birotte decision what it was, a political one.

Show some balls and tell that to Lesli - email her.

Somebody else always talked about all the good he had done.

I hope you do understand that as a steward of the fund you do share in the responsibility if this money has been taken. Its not the same as if you personally took the money but you had a responsibility to make sure the funds were handled properly. Maybe its time for a little humility instead of threats and bravado. If you need a good role model, look to Lesli's behavior since the story broke. Pure class.

 

[sublimit]

It could all be an elaborate Cyclismas joke to parody the UCI.

Possibly.

I wouldn't be surprised if the UCI set up a website to parody Cyclismas now.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Not too much in the Vos thread though?

Are you sure this is about chivalry, or is it really just a continuation of the feud between you and Mark?

I have no idea what you are talking about. None. Please refer to a specific post if you would.

 

[Digger]

Somebody else always talked about all the good he had done.

I hope you do understand that as a steward of the fund you do share in the responsibility if this money has been taken. Its not the same as if you personally took the money but you had a responsibility to make sure the funds were handled properly. Maybe its time for a little humility instead of threats and bravado. If you need a good role model, look to Lesli's behavior since the story broke. Pure class.

Well I won't back down if anyone attacks Kimmage, Lesli or Andy on this matter. Also Lesli can't say much due to ongoing legal anyway.
Anyway no I never ever envisaged such an occurrence arising. If that makes me culpable, then so be it.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Chewbacca is the protected attack dog of the forum. There's no point in engaging with him. He devolves to the vilest insults and if you respond in kind you get banned.

Awe, MarkyvW got his feewings hwort...frowny face.

Grow a set and apologize for defaming Lesli why don't you.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Jerks induce us to donate money and then point fingers at each other when the money goes undelivered.

Cyclismas, Lesli Cohen, and all of the jerks who solicited my money are dead to me unless that money is made good to Kimmage.

I may have to write this off as a cheap lesson learned.

So it is the OFFICIAL position of Cycling News that the people who promoted this messed up fund on the Internet have no responsibility for it.

That is a STUPID position.

The author of the stupidest (and most offensive) post on this thread is obviously the best suited to judge stupidity.

It's good to know that for the price of a "cheap" cup of coffee, you can summon the moral indignation of someone who was bilked by Madoff...and you did it based on NO facts at all. Wow. Good thing you keep your identity so well hidden from Birotte...I'm sure he'd be mighty unimpressed...

 

[mancsyboy]

Its a shame that this has happened as i do like Kimmage and feel he is a man of integrity and that he try's to do right although i do think he should go after teams other than Sky. It would be a massive shame if he left cycling because of it.

I do find it ironic that the BSers and internet rumour spreading people like UCIoverlord digger forum and cyclismas are now the subject of rumours and innuendo themselves. Like what they say via social media there is no proof that they have done wrong in this case but i am sorry i have no sympathy for them. And for Digger to be a protector against bullies is laughable. If you look at his twitter account he is the biggest bully and name caller around

 

[hrotha]

Why do you put Digger, Lesli Cohen and Andy Shen in the same plane as UCI Overlord? I don't see how anything that's been published about this story would make you think any of them is at fault, except by trusting the wrong people.

 

[BroDeal]

I
I do find it ironic that the BSers and internet rumour spreading people like UCIoverlord digger forum and cyclismas are now the subject of rumours and innuendo themselves. Like what they say via social media there is no proof that they have done wrong in this case but i am sorry i have no sympathy for them. And for Digger to be a protector against bullies is laughable. If you look at his twitter account he is the biggest bully and name caller around

Fran Millar, is that you?

 

[mancsyboy]

Why do you put Digger, Lesli Cohen and Andy Shen in the same plane as UCI Overlord? I don't see how anything that's been published about this story would make you think any of them is at fault, except by trusting the wrong people.

I dont know who is guilty of what if anyone is. If you look at UCIoverlords twitter he is saying there is an explanation. What i am commenting on, are the internet rumours and innuendo about it without the full truth being known. That is what these people are known for