Kreuziger going down?

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el_angliru

Mar 11, 2010
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Michael Mørkøv has written a blog entry @ Danish TV2 (in Danish):

http://tour2014.tv2.dk/2014-07-15-rytterne-behandles-som-kriminelle

It's well-written, and pretty nuanced considering it's written by someone who's still in the peloton. I can't make a translation but he's basically concerned about the blood (or bio-) pass. Some riders are tested in the morning, some in the evening. Some are tested right after a meal, others after a period of fasting. Some are tested while they're healthy, others while they've been sick for some time.

He says there are so many variables, and although all those variables are supposed to be taken into consideration when evaluating the blood pass he still has a feeling that everyone could be brought down. All riders are criminals per se until they can prove themselves innoncent.
 
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djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
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el_angliru said:
Michael Mørkøv has written a blog entry @ Danish TV2 (in Danish):

http://tour2014.tv2.dk/2014-07-15-rytterne-behandles-som-kriminelle

It's well-written, and pretty nuanced considering it's written by someone who's still in the peloton. I can't make a translation but he's basically concerned about the blood (or bio-) pass. Some riders are tested in the morning, some in the evening. Some are tested right after a meal, others after a period of fasting. Some are tested while they're healthy, others while they've been sick for some time.

He says there are so many variables, and although all those variables are supposed to be taken into consideration when evaluating the blood pass he still has a feeling that everyone could be brought down. All riders are criminals per se until they can prove themselves innoncent.
Click to expand...

The stunning lack of transparency over the whole system lends credence to his concerns. But considering how few are being suspended for passport violations, this obviously shows how clean the peloton has become. Just kidding, it shows how far UCI will go to keep cyclists from testing positive and ruining their marketing campaigns.
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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djpbaltimore said:
The stunning lack of transparency over the whole system lends credence to his concerns.
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While I agree, it's important to disambiguate that there is no transparency by design and WADA is powerless, again, by design.

WADA's 2013 report publishes urine and the rare blood sample positives, (~90 of them for the UCI in 2013) but does not publish the same statistics for bio-passport.

Plenty of opportunities to never test positive.
 
RobbieCanuck

RobbieCanuck

Jun 16, 2010
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spalco said:
Gossip? Why do you think they took Kreuziger out of the Tour?

If that's gossip then what would you describe the allegations against Sky as?
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Have you ever heard of responding to a post by being relevant, responsive and in context?

We are not talking about TS's decision to remove K from the TDF but your unwarranted and unsupported conclusion that K was doping because of his blood values when you don't have a clue as to what his blood values were!

Removing K from the TDF was the prudent thing to do, so the facts could be determined, but by no means proves he was doping!
 
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keeponrollin

Jul 10, 2012
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el_angliru said:
Michael Mørkøv has written a blog entry @ Danish TV2 (in Danish):

http://tour2014.tv2.dk/2014-07-15-rytterne-behandles-som-kriminelle

It's well-written, and pretty nuanced considering it's written by someone who's still in the peloton. I can't make a translation but he's basically concerned about the blood (or bio-) pass. Some riders are tested in the morning, some in the evening. Some are tested right after a meal, others after a period of fasting. Some are tested while they're healthy, others while they've been sick for some time.

He says there are so many variables, and although all those variables are supposed to be taken into consideration when evaluating the blood pass he still has a feeling that everyone could be brought down. All riders are criminals per se until they can prove themselves innoncent.
Click to expand...

Well it isn't exactly possible to give the athlete advanced notice so that they can make sure they get them at the same time every time they test them ?

Presumably, because the BP was conceived & setup by some serious scientists, they looked at loads of data & decided that the intra-day variations were trivial, compared with the kinds of shifts that the BP was supposed to be detecting( i.e. Stuff that can be confirmed Independently by experts), & so they decided that there was no problem about getting samples as part of the normal routine; as opposed to say specifying that any BP samples would only be taken before the athlete had had their breakfast.

Having had experts, in the past, try to bullsh1t me with statistics, this comes under the heading of *F.U.D. A classic delaying, obfuscation, defense tactic.

* Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. i.e Any post by Canuck ;)
 
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del1962

Oct 16, 2012
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Did anyone notice the way Tinkov in his interview with Lemond mentioned missing Kreziger, no reasons, it was as if he just had an accident or something
 
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sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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del1962 said:
Did anyone notice the way Tinkov in his interview with Lemond mentioned missing Kreziger, no reasons, it was as if he just had an accident or something
Click to expand...
lol.
well, he's right. get rich or die trying.
don't pretend.
guys like tinkov and vinokourov is just what the cleanER cycling brigade deserves.
it's a fresh wind, actually.
 
maxmartin

maxmartin

May 19, 2011
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el_angliru said:
Michael Mørkøv has written a blog entry @ Danish TV2 (in Danish):

http://tour2014.tv2.dk/2014-07-15-rytterne-behandles-som-kriminelle

It's well-written, and pretty nuanced considering it's written by someone who's still in the peloton. I can't make a translation but he's basically concerned about the blood (or bio-) pass. Some riders are tested in the morning, some in the evening. Some are tested right after a meal, others after a period of fasting. Some are tested while they're healthy, others while they've been sick for some time.

He says there are so many variables, and although all those variables are supposed to be taken into consideration when evaluating the blood pass he still has a feeling that everyone could be brought down. All riders are criminals per se until they can prove themselves innoncent.
Click to expand...

sounds like someone anti biopassport already suspicious. Let's put it in this way, passport won't catch all dopers. But if you are caught by passport, 99.9% chance you are a doper.
 
Cycle Chic

Cycle Chic

Sep 26, 2009
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Tinkov interview

del1962 said:
Did anyone notice the way Tinkov in his interview with Lemond mentioned missing Kreziger, no reasons, it was as if he just had an accident or something
Click to expand...

Tinkov also said in that interview that Contador would have smashed the Tour and that was a definite. He was in the form of his life. Contador also stated the same. 'In The Form of His Life'
 
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del1962

Oct 16, 2012
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Cycle Chic said:
Tinkov also said in that interview that Contador would have smashed the Tour and that was a definite. He was in the form of his life. Contador also stated the same. 'In The Form of His Life'
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He did correct himself and said that Chris would have been a threat:D
 
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el_angliru

Mar 11, 2010
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maxmartin said:
sounds like someone anti biopassport already suspicious.
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No, I don't think so. He's much too intelligent to say such a thing if he was flagged as a suspicius rider. As far as I'm concerned there still seems to be some problems with the whole procedual handling of biopassports. Let's have a look, for instance, at the German speed skater Claudia Pechstein. She was one of the very first athletes to recieve a two-year ban for BP irregularites. Bengt Saltin, however, was not convinced of her guilt. Saltin said about Pechstein's case that one fundamental law of justice was ignored: "to give the accused the benefit of the doubt". Bengt Saltin has published dozens of sudies on anti-doping and has probably been regarded as one of the world's leading anti-doping researchers or scientists. I wonder, are WADA's expert panel really that superior to Bengt Saltin?

Saltin has also expressed concerns about WADA not co-operating with the independent scientists. A dutch expert, Klaas Faber, also raised some questions about flaws in the BP procedure some years ago.

A Danish professor, Carsten Lundby, Institute of Physiology, Zürich, was on TV a couple of days ago. He was at the Tour's arrival town and talked about how the Biopassports are useless because of altitude training. "Maybe they're training at Tenerife because the road surfaces are fine or the weather is nice" (as he put it with an unmistakable irony!). Lundby has also published dozens of papers on anti-doping. In an article published 2012, Lundby (et al.) wrote:

Based on the earlier discussion, the ABP [Athlete Biological Passport] seems the best currently available tool for detecting autologous blood manipulations, but it also needs to be acknowledged that the system in its present form is far from bulletproof, and that it is only an indirect evidence for blood manipulations, and, furthermore, that it is impossible to be 100% certain that all prosecuted athletes have in fact practiced doping.
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Nilsson

Jan 10, 2012
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roundabout said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kreuziger-to-ride-tour-of-poland-despite-passport-case

Can't think of any others who kept on riding after a biological passport case had been opened
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The problem is: there is no official case opened against him. There's only a 'let's show each other what cards we have and we might (very well) open a case' against him dragging on.

It's sad and if this is how it's played there are no winners IMO. Act (with accurate and flexible punishment) if even slightly possible, but don't drag on with sleepy cases you drag on with again to make a useless point that (apparently) has already been received.
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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If/when he walks from this, he'll be king of the teflon club. Got away with Ferrari, and (maybe) he'll be the first to get off a passport case. Chapeau.
 
roundabout

roundabout

Jun 7, 2010
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Nilsson said:
The problem is: there is no official case opened against him. There's only a 'let's show each other what cards we have and we might (very well) open a case' against him dragging on.

It's sad and if this is how it's played there are no winners IMO. Act (with accurate and flexible punishment) if even slightly possible, but don't drag on with sleepy cases you drag on with again to make a useless point that (apparently) has already been received.
Click to expand...

CN seem to think that the case has been opened

But anyway, did Locke have a special contract, because Sky had no problem in suspending him.

Or they actually have a backbone unlike tinkoff.

Or Locke was crap so it was no big loss (but then again they did pull Henao).

It's still hilarious to read Feltrin using the contract fig leaf.
 
thehog

thehog

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
31,285
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Moose McKnuckles said:
By "more transparent", the UCI apparently means that we can see the fraud more clearly, not that they're going to do anything about it.
Click to expand...

At this rate, JTL for the Vuelta!

Just as long as the UCI is consistent, I'm good :cool:
 
mrhender

mrhender

Jul 11, 2013
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roundabout said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kreuziger-to-ride-tour-of-poland-despite-passport-case

Can't think of any others who kept on riding after a biological passport case had been opened
Click to expand...

Great spin from Feltrin...
Putting pressure on UCI, and at the same time beeing busy at the sink...

A potential verdict would probably be postponed to late season to avoid too much noise.
Enrolling Roman in the roster officially -Seems to be moving a chess piece, forcing some sort of reaction..

That or he's gonna walk....
 
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