Lance Refuses to give Blood Sample to USADA

[Anonymous]

It was a general comment about Lance running to twitter. Showergate being another case, as were the examples in this year's Tour. He gets in there first.

i dont see the twitter issue... i put all sorts of pointless crap on mine.. if youre a cyclist, testers visit, and screw up the sample, why shouldnt you say on twitter what happened..

if it was anyone else we would be discussing the testers incompetance.. because its lance... yawn....

 

[workingclasshero]

The whole thing is probably a tempest in a teapot in terms of the individual incident.

The larger theme here is that LA's Twitter continues the campaign from Armstrong (and many other Pro Cyclists in general) to smear the credibility of the anti-doping testing authorities. I.E. the meme is that we've got a class of heroic, hard-working, super tough Pro Cyclists who are constantly being hounded and chastized by inept anti-doping authorities, sometimes with unjust career-destroying implications!

ahh someone with the correct perspective on this!! well said son

Imagine if the USADA tester tweeted, "couldn't get blood from LA, veins too flat, had to listen to him whine the whole time. Will try again later."

exactly!

 

[Sprocket01]

So we can't get him on the phoney story so we'll say it's all about the dignity of the testers instead!

Look, there is going to be a little bit of resentment about having to report your whereabouts 365 days a year to these people, however necessary that is. That's natural. And yes, if you are a big global super star there is probably going to be some feelings of superiority over some rent-a-blood-tester guy who might not even know anything about cycling. You get that with football pros towards refs that have never played the game to a high level. Having to beholden themselves to them can cause a bit of friction obviously. That's all just part of professional sport - there's nothing untoward about it. No names were given. Lets not make a moutain out of a molehill chaps.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So we can't get him on the phoney story so we'll say it's all about the dignity of the testers instead!

Look, there is going to be a little bit of resentment about having to report your whereabouts 365 days a year to these people, however necessary that is. That's natural. And yes, if you are a big global super star there is probably going to be some feelings of superiority over some rent-a-blood-tester guy who might not even know anything about cycling. You get that with football pros towards refs that have never played the game to a high level. Having to beholden themselves to them can cause a bit of friction obviously. That's all just part of professional sport - there's nothing untoward about it. No names were given. Lets not make a moutain out of a molehill chaps.

I agree with you that there is nothing to the story of him 'refusing' to give a sample.

But can you name some other Pro riders who have complained the way Lance does - how many other Pro's have published the pictures of their arm's or have called the testers 'amateurs'?

Certainly the testing is an inconvenience to athlete's but he is earning vast sum's in a tough sport - if its such a torture he should have stayed retired.

 

[Sprocket01]

But can you name some other Pro riders who have complained the way Lance does - how many other Pro's have published the pictures of their arm's or have called the testers 'amateurs'?

No, but I was going on BikeCentric's remarks:

The larger theme here is that LA's Twitter continues the campaign from Armstrong (and many other Pro Cyclists in general) to smear the credibility of the anti-doping testing authorities.

I presumed he has endless examples. But I'm sure LA, who is a very confrontational and outspoken guy, is right up there. Remember a big part of his motivation in life is the seige mentality. He needs to think of these inspectors as being out to get him. And they are - that's their job.

 

[Sprocket01]

how many other Pro's have published the pictures of their arm's

You know, i missed the pictures of his arms. That explains more.

http://twitpic.com/mgzw5

If the story is correct, wouldn't you have to be an amateur to balls that up?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No, but I was going on BikeCentric's remarks:

I presumed he has endless examples. But I'm sure LA, who is a very confrontational and outspoken guy, is right up there. Remember a big part of his motivation in life is the seige mentality. He needs to think of these inspectors as being out to get him. And they are - that's their job.

Actually BC's comments were general about all in the anti-doping authorities, from collection to analysis.

The larger theme here is that LA's Twitter continues the campaign from Armstrong (and many other Pro Cyclists in general) to smear the credibility of the anti-doping testing authorities.

Where yours was quite specific to the collection of samples - so who else complains?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If the story is correct, wouldn't you have to be an amateur to balls that up?

So - if his 'siege' mentality is that the inspectors are out to get him, then why does he feel the need to tell 2,000,000 'followers' this?
Or are you suggesting he in fact completely paranoid?

 

[Sprocket01]

You don't think testers failing to do a blood test properly and mashing up his arm requires a twitter post? I don't even subscribe to his twitter but I wanted to hear about that. And yes, I'm sure he also likes for people to see he is being tested and not getting this 'special treatment' that sometimes is refered to. All perfectly normal.

 

[Polish]

Christian VDV has issues too

Christian VDV also twittered recently about USADA impoliteness fyi:

USADA interupted my fishing last night and I had to go home!? The big one is still out there.
6:03 AM Oct 1st from web

http://twitter.com/ChristianVDV
.
.
.

 

[Sprocket01]

Actually BC's comments were general about all in the anti-doping authorities, from collection to analysis.

Where yours was quite specific to the collection of samples - so who else complains?

Semantic difference. We were talking about a test that has taken place and not the authorities as organisations.

I'm sure they do complain if the testers screw up. Why wouldn't they?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You don't think testers failing to do a blood test properly and mashing up his arm requires a twitter post? I don't even subscribe to his twitter but I wanted to hear about that. And yes, I'm sure he also likes for people to see he is being tested and not getting this 'special treatment' that sometimes is refered to. All perfectly normal.

NO!

As for CVV - he didn't call the testers amateurs.
Most riders do complain about the inconvenience of the testing and they used to complain about having to fill out the 'whereabouts' forms before the 'ADAMS' was introduced but no-one complains as bitterly as LA.

 

[peloton]

You don't think testers failing to do a blood test properly and mashing up his arm requires a twitter post? I don't even subscribe to his twitter but I wanted to hear about that. And yes, I'm sure he also likes for people to see he is being tested and not getting this 'special treatment' that sometimes is refered to. All perfectly normal.

LA is probably the biggest fraud in sports, hiding behind the cancer stick, yet doped up to the gills.
Hope rides again, lol.

 

[graviT]

hiding behind the cancer stick,

Help me out here, what exactly is a cancer stick?

 

[Sprocket01]

no-one complains as bitterly as LA.

Do we know that though? Who else's twitter gets this much coverage? Who rushes onto the clinic with false stories from someone else's twitter? What rider's comments get such wide coverage in general? We just don't know who is the worst.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Do we know that though? Who else's twitter gets this much coverage? Who rushes onto the clinic with false stories from someone else's twitter? What rider's comments get such wide coverage in general? We just don't know who is the worst.

There are plenty of knowledgeable posters here from many countries - including lots from mainland Europe where Pro Cycling gets daily coverage.
So if someone made a comment it would be shared.
In fact I follow a few Pros on 'Twitter' and very few mention anything bad about their anti-doping experiences.

 

[Sprocket01]

Maybe they're not being honest. LA just lays it out on the table. That's one of the reasons why he is so popular outside of the sport.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Maybe they're not being honest. LA just lays it out on the table. That's one of the reasons why he is so popular outside of the sport.

Oh yeah, when I think Lance Armstrong the next thought that comes to mind is total transparent honesty.*



* That means laughing three times as hard.

 

[Escarabajo]

......What was needed next was for scientists to find a way to get the maximum amount of RBC’s infused into a subject’s body at the most appropriate time. First, it was determined that by freezing the RBC’s after they were centrifuged you could completely halt the aging process of the cells. This process will allow you to store blood for up to 10 years with only 10% to 15% of the RBC’s being lost

http://www.texarkanacollege.edu/~mstorey/beckham.html

Nice read.
Thanks.

 

[Sprocket01]

Nice read.
Thanks.

Yes it was good information.

15% seems a rather high number to lose from your red blood cell count, so I think we can safely say nobody holds onto it for ten years. I wonder how much is lost in a year? Others seem to think the thawing process can cause problems.

It also doesn't answer the question of how they get it to France in the first place if it's in deep freeze (or even if it is not). Blood bags through customs? And where would they keep it in France? Does it have to be done in a professional clinic? It's a murky and complicated business alright.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes it was good information.

15% seems a rather high number to lose from your red blood cell count, so I think we can safely say nobody holds onto it for ten years. I wonder how much is lost in a year? Others seem to think the thawing process can cause problems.

It also doesn't answer the question of how they get it to France in the first place if it's in deep freeze (or even if it is not). Blood bags through customs? And where would they keep it in France? Does it have to be done in a professional clinic? It's a murky and complicated business alright.

The only person who suggested it could or would be held on to by a Pro athlete for 10 years was you.

Someone else suggested it had a short life span - someone else mentioned ten years and the information I quoted confirms this, it was an answer to show that it is possible to store for that length of time.

 

[BikeCentric]

It's a murky and complicated business alright.

Surely we can all agree that it certainly is! But that's the pro cycling that we know and love eh Arbiter?

 

[Sprocket01]

The only person who suggested it could or would be held on to by a Pro athlete for 10 years was you.

I didn't say anyone suggested that it did.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I didn't say anyone suggested that it did.

Correct -it was only you who suggested it.

At any rate it turns out LA did all his blood draws ten years ago, so he would have nothing to fear from a blood test at this stage of the season.

 

[HoustonHammer]

I didn't say anyone suggested that it did.

Sprocket - I've been meaning to ask you for an expert's critique on a slightly separate subject. Did you think Dustin Hoffman's performance in Rain Man was realistic? I've always felt it was a bit over the top, but I don't have any personal perspective...