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Lance Refuses to give Blood Sample to USADA

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Race Radio said:
There are plenty of reason for Armstrong to obstruct the test. Based on his past history of test delays and avoidance I think that we can all agree that Armstrong was once again trying to obstruct the testing process. It is the only rational conclusion.

Some people are just not that good a drawing blood - that certainly could be the is issue, besides when a person uses the term "only rationale conclusion" about this subject I would have to think of them as an "anti-FB".
 

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Polish said:
Mr Radio, you just asked three question youself;(

Anyway, Sprockets logistic question is VERY interesting!

This is not the 1980's, when Blood Transfusing was allowed.
Nor is it the 1990's when nobody really cared when you transfused boohoo.

Being a Doper at the TdF in 2009 is like being a human in
San Fransisco surronded by PodPeople:(:(
photo-52-4.jpg



And I understand TimeTravel, Space Aliens, or TransContinentalLAF
MiniJets are cute jokes - but really how DOES Lance dope in France??

Its easy for AC, he can drive his blood there...

I too find Sprokets question on logistics very interesting.

Lances Private Jet is no "minijet" as he has a deal with Flexjet who operate a Bombardier Challanger 300 which has transported him many times to and from Europe to the States. They even have it featured in a press release.

As for French security -here is a French programme where TV3 managed to get explosives on to commercial flights not once but 12 times.

But for transporting medicines all that would be required is the necessary paperwork and there would be minimal risk with transportation.
 
Polish said:
And I understand TimeTravel, Space Aliens, or TransContinentalLAF
MiniJets are cute jokes - but really how DOES Lance dope in France??

Its easy for AC, he can drive his blood there...

Vaughters' IM conversation with Frankie Andreu stated that Floyd Landis stated that the US Postal team used refrigerated motorcycle panniers to transport blood to the team-members at the race:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

He also stated that they drew the blood in Europe after the Dauphine so there would be no need to fly it anywhere.
 

Sprocket01

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Dr. Maserati said:
Who is the we?

The clinic community. It's a term of expression.

You are asking questions about the transportation and making it sound like it is near impossible.

I didn't say it's near impossible. That must be something you have discovered when you were thinking it through. I merely asked how it was done.

He uses several Private Jets - and he uses them for Trans-Atlantic flights. Most small to medium airports in the EU have only part-time if any customs.

Not for international flights. They always go through customs. LA and the teams he are with are always big targets for customs as well, so he must be taking an incredible risk. Maybe you're right that it does sound near impossible.
 

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BikeCentric said:
Vaughters' IM conversation with Frankie Andreu stated that Floyd Landis stated that the US Postal team used refrigerated motorcycle panniers to transport blood to the team-members at the race:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

He also stated that they drew the blood in Europe after the Dauphine so there would be no need to fly it anywhere.

So you're saying he doesn't use private jets. Murkier still...

Of course, Vaughters denied that he knew for sure about this. I'm sure lots of rumours and gossip go around about who is up to what.
 

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Sprocket01 said:
The clinic community. It's a term of expression.



I didn't say it's near impossible. That must be something you have discovered when you were thinking it through. I merely asked how it was done.



Not for international flights. They always go through customs. LA and the teams he are with are always big targets for customs as well, so he must be taking an incredible risk. Maybe you're right that it does sound near impossible.

I never said that - that was your suggestion - please do not twist my posts.
 

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Sprocket01 said:
So you're saying he doesn't use private jets. Murkier still...

Of course, Vaughters denied that he knew for sure about this. I'm sure lots of rumours and gossip go around about who is up to what.
BikeCentric never said LA does not use Private Jets.

Read my post above -I have gone to the trouble of posting a link as to how Armstrong regularly travels and a link to show the inadequacy of the customs.

Also it is not illegal to bring in medical products - however the proper paperwork would be required. In most small airports however customs do not check Private Aircraft.
 
Sprocket01 said:
So you're saying he doesn't use private jets. Murkier still...

Of course, Vaughters denied that he knew for sure about this. I'm sure lots of rumours and gossip go around about who is up to what.

I didn't say "he" used or didn't use anything smart guy. Try to use your brain and quit putting words in peoples mouths. I posted the link to the IM between Vaughters and Andreu where they talk about what went down and people can draw their own conclusions from that conversation.

Never go full *** Sprocket.
 

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Dr. Maserati said:
As for French security -here is a French programme where TV3 managed to get explosives on to commercial flights not once but 12 times.

That's a tabloid game they play here in the UK as well quite often. They get someone working at the airline to get a knife on board or something.

Customs is still very strict for international flights, especially in this day and age. It would be extremely risky to put blood bags through scanning machines and expose them to searches.

I tend to agree with BikeCentric's theory that it would have to be done in France if at all. The question is when, where, and who's freezer is it in? And does that person know how to thaw it properly?
 

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BikeCentric said:
I didn't say "he" used or didn't use anything smart guy. Try to use your brain and quit putting words in peoples mouths. I posted the link to the IM between Vaughters and Andreu where they talk about what went down and people can draw their own conclusions from that conversation.

Never go full *** Sprocket.

By posting info that it was done in France, I thought you believed it is done in France. Don't you believe your own link? But you're right - maybe that's not true. We just don't know. It's all very confusing - people are right not to commit to a position.
 

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Sprocket01 said:
That's a tabloid game they play here in the UK as well quite often. They get someone working at the airline to get a knife on board or something.

Customs is still very strict for international flights, especially in this day and age. It would be extremely risky to put blood bags through scanning machines and expose them to searches.

I tend to agree with BikeCentric's theory that it would have to be done in France if at all. The question is when, where and who's freezer is it's in? And does that person know how to thaw it properly?

The documentary that I posted - and you didn't watch - was done on many flights including flights from the US.

I too agree that most of the doping would be happening in mainland Europe - however with his wealth and access to Private Aircraft we cannot rule out oversea's transportation.

BTW: do bags of blood set off metal detectors?
 
Sprocket01 said:
I tend to agree with BikeCentric's theory that it would have to be done in France if at all. The question is when, where, and who's freezer is it in? And does that person know how to thaw it properly?

STOP putting words in peoples mouths. I didn't make a theory on anything, I posted the link to an IM conversation between Vaughters and Andreu where THEY talk about what went down.
 
Sprocket01 said:
By posting info that it was done in France, I thought you believed it is done in France. Don't you believe your own link? But you're right - maybe that's not true. We just don't know. It's all very confusing - people are right not to commit to a position.

Do I believe what Vaughters texted to Andreu? Yes I do; I don't see any reason why he'd lie to his friend at 6 AM via a text message.
 
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lemmings lemming lemmings

when will you learn not to feed a troll

standard trollcraft:
an innocent question that sounds interesting-> a straight honest answer -> more questions -> 'this was rumor, hearsay, gossip'

the last resort in this standard operating procedure is a polite request: prove it to me, provide evidence -> 'i am not convinced'. and the cycle repeats...
 
python said:
lemmings lemming lemmings

when will you learn not to feed a troll

standard trollcraft:
an innocent question that sounds interesting-> a straight honest answer -> more questions -> 'this was rumor, hearsay, gossip'

the last resort in this standard operating procedure is a polite request: prove it to me, provide evidence -> 'i am not convinced'. and the cycle repeats...

Given that the troll has been banned approximately 6 times and keeps coming back Python it's clear that he's here to stay. So at this point people can make their own choice on whether they want to put him on ignore or just troll the troll if they're in the mood to do so.
 
Sprocket01 said:
By posting info that it was done in France, I thought you believed it is done in France. Don't you believe your own link? But you're right - maybe that's not true. We just don't know. It's all very confusing - people are right not to commit to a position.

... you're never gonna solve it. It's not a riddle because Who *is* on first base. That's a joke, it's comedy, but when you do it you're not funny. You're like the comedy of Abbott and Abbott....

'Course I got Jeopardy! at five o'clock. I watch Jeopardy!
 

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python said:
'this was rumor, hearsay, gossip'

But in the case of the Vaughters conversation it is easy to believe it is gossip. He's talking to a cynical friend via text message on the latest insider goss. I would be insane to point out that such conversations aren't always true. There are always rumours going around in cycling and other sports, especially during the tour.
 

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python said:
lemmings lemming lemmings

when will you learn not to feed a troll

standard trollcraft:
an innocent question that sounds interesting-> a straight honest answer -> more questions -> 'this was rumor, hearsay, gossip'

the last resort in this standard operating procedure is a polite request: prove it to me, provide evidence -> 'i am not convinced'. and the cycle repeats...
I sometimes enjoy his rants - because they inevitably drag up more points that hurt LA which have left me in no doubt about Armstrongs doping.

I have often wondered is Sproket, Lemond or Simeoni.
 

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BikeCentric said:
Do I believe what Vaughters texted to Andreu? Yes I do.

So why are you calling me a troll then? We were discussing the flight method and then you post a story about it being done in France, so obviously I'm thinking you are backing that theory.

Don't be awkward about it. :rolleyes:
 
Sprocket01 said:
So why are you calling me a troll then? We were discussing the flight method and then you post a story about it being done in France, so obviously I'm thinking you are backing that theory.

Don't be awkward about it. :rolleyes:

To spell it out for you: you stated that Vaughters' claims from the story were my own "theory." This is probably because you're *** and lack basic reading comprehension skills, but I digress.
 

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Dr. Maserati said:
I sometimes enjoy his rants - because they inevitably drag up more points that hurt LA which have left me in no doubt about Armstrongs doping..

Which points on this thread have left you in no doubt that LA is blood doping?Your shakey private jet argument that you ended up moving away from?

And who is ranting? You and BikeCentric are the ones who seem to be in a huff as we try to get the line right on this tricky subject.
 

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Dr. Maserati said:
Please explain??

You were making an argument that he uses private jets to transport frozen blood. After seeming to realise lots of holes in that theory, you have now naunced it to "most of it is done in Europe"

It was a nice nuance. I would have done the same.
 

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BikeCentric said:
To spell it out for you: you stated that Vaughters' claims from the story were my own "theory." This is probably because you're *** and lack basic reading comprehension skills, but I digress.

What's Rain Man got to do with it?

You have no theory and don't believe a word it, okay. Fair enough.
 
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