Landis speaks on German television...

[hrotha]

most of them get where they get due to links, so if your not a bike mechanic on a pro team more than likely you have your won shop with a pro connection, masseuse the same..

Right, that too. In a way it's like domestic abuse. It only started getting reported once women began gaining a sense of independence and could afford to cut ties with their past. We need well-off riders to say "screw this" and tell everything (come on Kreuziger, I believe in you).

 

[Benotti69]

Right, that too. In a way it's like domestic abuse. It only started getting reported once women began gaining a sense of independence and could afford to cut ties with their past. We need well-off riders to say "screw this" and tell everything (come on Kreuziger, I believe in you).

i dont believe that is the way of it. lot's of riders, masseuse etc have spoken in a detailed way for there to be enough evidence that we all know what is happening and have known for a long long time and a change needs to come about.

the Armstrong era has brought the whole thing to a head, which in my opinion is long over due.

the change needs to come from 2 places the top down or the bottom up.

ie UCI needs to be cleansed of its imbeciles or the riders need to form their own union which is about a dope free sport and force through the change for themselves.

 

[Altitude]

ie UCI needs to be cleansed of its imbeciles or the riders need to form their own union which is about a dope free sport and force through the change for themselves.

You really think the majority of riders want a dope free sport? Clean guys won't even speak out against doping for fear of peloton blacklisting, not to mention form some sort of "clean union".

 

[theswordsman]

I tried finding something about the team bus on Google. I settled for the Cycling News results of Stage 15. The logistics would have been interesting - Robin Williams was with Johan in the team car that day. But I remembered some of the stories that came out earlier in the year. I remember there was one about someone, maybe Duffy, driving out into the boondocks to ditch doping trash where it wouldn't be connected to the team. I also remembered the Blood Brothers article in the Wall Street Journal had some details. My question is, would they have done three transfusions during the race, because one was in the hotel room, and the WSJ has the bus thing AFTER a stage?

Nine days into the 2004 Tour de France, the U.S. Postal Service cycling team, led by Lance Armstrong, checked into a hotel near the village of Saint-Léonard-de-Noblat.

It was July 12, one of two rest days on the Tour—the rare breaks that give riders a chance to rest and gird themselves for the punishing climbs and sprints that make this the most depleting event in professional cycling.

According to one of the U.S. Postal team's most prominent riders at the time, Floyd Landis, one room at the hotel had been set aside for a secret procedure.

Outside its door, Mr. Landis said, team staff members were stationed at each end of the hall to make sure nobody showed up unannounced. The riders were told before they went into the room not to talk when they got inside, he said. The smoke detectors had been taken down, he said, plastic was taped over the heater and the air-conditioning unit, and anything with a hole in it was taped over. The purpose, Mr. Landis figured, was to obscure the view of any hidden camera.

The riders on the team who participated in this procedure lay down on the bed, two at a time, Mr. Landis said, with a doctor on each side. Mr. Landis said he got a blood transfusion. He said he also saw Mr. Armstrong and two other team members, George Hincapie and José Luis Rubiera, taking blood. He said he didn't see any other riders getting transfusions that day.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html

The transfusions in the hotel room near Saint-Léonard-de-Noblat weren't the only occasion during the 2004 Tour when some team members transfused blood, Mr. Landis said. The second time, he said, was an even stranger scene. After one day's stage, the team bus stopped on a remote alpine road. The driver opened the back of the bus to make it appear as though something was wrong, and set about pretending to fix it.

The bus had long benches on each side, and a couple of riders lay down on each one, Mr. Landis said. The doctors hooked them up, taping their blood bags to the sides of the bus, he said. Mr. Armstrong took his transfusion lying on the bus floor, he said. Mr. Landis said the process took about an hour.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html

Interesting to see how the guys talked to the press afterward. Lance was such a great guy that he spotted Floyd's parents along the road and alerted him

Once again, Lance paid homage to the Blue Train of USPS-Berry Floor, saying "the team was fantastic...they proved that they're the strongest team in the race. George and Chechu just almost made it up to that front; we were getting feedback that they were just behind and we were struggling with 'do we wait for them and have two more guys or do we continue to ride with Sastre and Voigt?' so we just continued with Floyd and Voigt to chase down Ullrich. But the team, they controlled the race from the very beginning. They're the best team in the race and this is not the first year."

Armstrong also singled out American Floyd Landis, who had played a big role today in setting up Armstrong's win in Villard-de Lans today. "I'm incredibly proud of them and I think the player of the day was Floyd Landis. He was incredible. There were ten guys left on the climb and Floyd was still there, which is not normally his cup of tea. His family was also on that climb, so maybe that was it."

Cyclingnews reached Floyd post stage, who told us "Lance was fantastic today...I had good legs and was glad to be able to help him take the Yellow Jersey again. When Ullrich attacked, he went too early. We just decided to leave him out there; it was a long way to the finish. Landis was able to share the moment with his family today as well, explaining, "Lance said on the radio 'hey Floyd, there's your family' and I was able to wave at them. Then after the stage , Robin Williams, who was in the car with Johan joked with me 'hey there were Mennonites on the course today!'"

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/tour04/?id=results/stage15

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

No, Prentice was long gone by then.

Yes, but it didn´t keep him from commenting:

Doping weiter an der Tagesordnung
Eigen-Bluttransfusionen im Teambus vor dem Start
Doping still commmon practice
Autologous transfusions in the team bus before the start

Alles sinnlos? Hinweis zur Dopingkontrolle bei der Tour de France Fotos: Roth
PARIS/BERLIN, 06.10.05 (rsn) - Das Thema Doping lässt den Radsport nicht los. Ein früherer Teamarzt des US Postal-Teams behauptet in der Donnerstagsausgabe der Pariser Sportzeitung L‘Equipe, dass bei der letzten Tour de France mehrere Teams bei ihren Fahrern kurz vor dem Etappenstart Eigen-Bluttransfusionen durchführten und so die Blut- und Dopingkontrollen umgingen.In thursday´s edition of L´Equipe a former doctor of team US Postal claims that severeal teams performed autologous blood transfusions on their riders right before the start of a stage to circumvent blood- and doping controls.

Der Sportmediziner Prentice Steffen, der bis 1996 Teamarzt war bei US Postal und entlassen wurde, bevor 1997 Lance Armstrong zu dem Rennstall kam, hat wiederholt schwere Vorwürfe gegen das Armstrong-Team erhoben.[Steffen charges accusation against USPS] In L‘Equipe beschreibt er jetzt eine Praxis, die Insider kaum überrascht. "Vor dem Start der letzten Tour de France haben Fahrer aus bestimmten Teams in ihren Trainingslagern EPO genommen, um ihre Hämatokritwerte klettern zu lassen, vielleicht in die Gegend von 60 Prozent. Dann nimmt ihnen ein Arzt Blut ab, konserviert dies in speziellen Verpackungen. Die Blutparameter der Fahrer sinken derweil wieder auf die normalen Werte, sodass sie keine Schwierigkeiten haben bei den medizinischen Kontrollen vor der Tour", [description of raising HC, blood and timing it so doesn´t look suspicios at the pre-tour controls] so Steffen, der allerdings offen lässt, woher er seine Informationen aus zweiter Hand hat und auch keine Namen nennt. says Steffen, who doesn´t disclose where he got his second hand information and also tells no names.

"Die Teams wissen sehr gut, dass während des Rennens die Vampire (die Dopingkontrolleure, die Blut nehmen) jeden Tag unangekündigt kommen können, aber das ist immer zwischen 7 und 8 Uhr - plus/minus eine halbe Stunde", so Dr.Steffen weiter.[he describes "unannounced" controls, which always take place in the morning] "Wenn diese Zeit um ist, kann man sicher sein, dass es keine Kontrollen mehr gibt. Dann können die Fahrer wieder ihr vor dem Start konserviertes Eigenblut reinjizieren. So können sie bei der Etappe mit einem enormen Vorteil starten - während der Etappe haben sie 55-58 Hämatokrit. Nach dem Rennen wird das Blut wieder verdünnt, sodass sie kein Risiko haben beim Schlafen und vor allem auch keines bei Kontrollen am nächsten Morgen."After that they can be sure there no more controls. Then they can reinject their on blood. So they can
start with an enormous advantage - during the stage they have a HC of 55 - 58. After the race the blood ist diluted in order to have no risk while sleeping and especially no risk at the controls the next morning.

Diese Praxis werde nur vor Schlüsseletappen durchgeführt, sagt Steffen. "Das ist so einfach zu machen und es gibt gar kein Risiko, sofern es keine polizeilichen Eingriffe gibt. Das Blut wird in einem Kühlbehälter per Motorrad vorbeigebracht", so der Mediziner.This is only parcticed before key stages, says Steffen. It is easy to execute and there is no risk as long there is no police intervention. The blood is brought in a refrigerated container via motorcycle Verhindern ließe sich diese Art der Manipulation nur dadurch, dass Blutkontrollen unmittelbar vor dem Start des Rennens "praktisch auf
der Startlinie" durchgeführt würden, was durchaus machbar wäre, da ein am Finger genommener Bluttropfen für die Kontrollen bereits ausreicht.[this could only be inhibited by controls right before the start of a race/stage]

Die Sportzeitung L‘Equipe, die zur gleichen Firmengruppe gehört wie die Tour de France-Organisation, hatte am 23.August unter der Titelseiten-Überschrift "Die Armstrong-Lüge" enthüllt, dass nachträglich untersuchte Urinproben Armstrongs von der Tour de France 1999 positiv auf EPO waren. Derzeit druckt das Blatt eine Serie über die derzeitige Lage des Radsports. Eine von L‘Equipe in Auftrag gegebene repräsentative Umfrage hatte vor kurzem ergeben, dass in Frankreich, Spanien und Frankreich der Radsport die Sportart ist, die am meisten mit Doping in Verbindung gebracht wird.

Note:
This is the only article I could find which explicitly mentions the team bus (although only in the headline) and I found it on the most obscure german cycling site. Still it does seem to be an article (no longer online) quoted from radsportnews.net, which seemingly quoted an article from L´Equipe (which is no longer online).

 

[thehog]

".....He was incredible. There were ten guys left on the climb and Floyd was still there, which is not normally his cup of tea. His family was also on that climb, so maybe that was it."

- Yes Lance that was it! He's family. Not the 500cc of freshly packed cells into the system.

 

[Benotti69]

You really think the majority of riders want a dope free sport? Clean guys won't even speak out against doping for fear of peloton blacklisting, not to mention form some sort of "clean union".

i don't think they enjoy racing under the threat of bans, would you? they think they gotta take the PEDs because they are led to believe that what everyone is doing and them doing it makes everything equal!!

i bet most would rather keep the $$$s then spend it on PEDs. Yes the racing would be a bit slower overall but no less exciting in my opinion. check youtube for the racing before epo and see how good it was then and how good it would still be clean.

yes guys are scared to speak out. but they need to be able to speak out and not suffer for it. needs someone to speak out and then take on who ever enforces the repercussions if any.

but uci needs to be dismantled. people need to go to jail. the Swiss are deporting criminals. if Verbruggen can get done for accepting bribes from Armstrong and squeal like a pig about the whole set up of uci/ioc to save his skin and sink the whole corruptness offederations if would be excellent.

 

[Mellow Velo]

What's the difference between the UCI and US Postal?

Team Hogstrong's rider charter isn't a joke.

 

[BotanyBay]

You really think the majority of riders want a dope free sport? Clean guys won't even speak out against doping for fear of peloton blacklisting, not to mention form some sort of "clean union".

Our sport is currently held hostage by people (riders and team owners) that prefer a doping culture. Either these forces need to be toppled and run-off or we all just have to wait for the possibility of a natural preference for a clean sport by the majority of riders and teams.

Myself, I'm less patient and prefer the former.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Our sport is currently held hostage by people (riders and team owners) that prefer a doping culture. Either these forces need to be toppled and run-off or we all just have to wait for the possibility of a natural preference for a clean sport by the majority of riders and teams.

Myself, I'm less patient and prefer the former.

Me too. The latter is what's been going on for far too long. 'Waiting for the possibility that teams and riders want it' is what's been happening for the last couple of decades.

As others have said, burn it to the ground and start over...

 

[cprior]

i imagine secret compartments were designed into the bus.

Well, read yourself how a german bus-refitter describes his services (publicly on the internets since at least 2006, that is from when a screenshot I took dates).

http://www.frenzel.de/cgi-bin/unternehmen.pl?language=en

Our concepts for buses range from simple standard solutions and customised furnishings to new specifications for buses and more. The coach for football clubs, VIP buses for exclusive trips and for show business. The bus or truck semi-trailer can be used both for promotion tours as well as for support work in racing or product presentation. The range of products is supplemented through mobile and fixed refrigerators e.g. for transporting blood bottles and blood plasma. High quality materials, qualified personnel and know-how from years of experience are available to the customer.

(emphasis added)

 

[Benotti69]

Well, read yourself how a german bus-refitter describes his services (publicly on the internets since at least 2006, that is from when a screenshot I took dates).

http://www.frenzel.de/cgi-bin/unternehmen.pl?language=en

(emphasis added)

cheers. it is nothing new in the world of custom autos nowadays.

wonder where that bus is now? wonder will it be searched by the feds/interpol?

 

[Polish]

Here is the link to the cyclingnews.com article, and below is the pertinent quote from the article-

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis-suggests-that-clenbuterol-is-common-in-peloton

Doping at US Postal Service and Phonak-

Landis also spoke about his doping experiences during the time he rode for US Postal Service Team and Phonak.

“It is easy to take anabolics, whether it is testosterone, growth hormone or something like that, and EPO, and to make a blood transfusions. You can easily do all of that without getting caught, and we routinely did it.”

Specifically asked whether his then teammates also did this, Landis answered, “Every person and me, who took part in the races that Lance won, did it.”

.

Did Floyd really say "“Every person and me, who took part in the races that Lance won, did it"? It does not appear in the link you posted....

Seems like hyperbole. Might make him look bad on a witness stand under oath...

I do like the part where he does not believe the Alberto's Meat Excuse lol.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Did Floyd really say "“Every person and me, who took part in the races that Lance won, did it"? It does not appear in the link you posted....

Seems like hyperbole. Might make him look bad on a witness stand under oath...

I do like the part where he does not believe the Alberto's Meat Excuse lol.

That quote was in the original article.

Hello mods. Any word on why that was pulled?

 

[BotanyBay]

Me too. The latter is what's been going on for far too long. 'Waiting for the possibility that teams and riders want it' is what's been happening for the last couple of decades.

As others have said, burn it to the ground and start over...

And this is why I hammer at guys like JV. He might not be powerful enough to bring the house down, but he can fire a round that would demolish a load-bearing wall. Preferably he'd see other people dropping bombs and join-in on the salvo to help make it truly effective. Unfortunately, several other "good shots" have been singly fired by compatriots of his, but the enemy quickly patches them up.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Sorry, mods.

This is the article (same quasi-interview).

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...Service-doping-incident-during-2004-Tour.aspx

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

And this is why I hammer at guys like JV. He might not be powerful enough to bring the house down, but he can fire a round that would demolish a load-bearing wall. Preferably he'd see other people dropping bombs and join-in on the salvo to help make it truly effective. Unfortunately, several other "good shots" have been singly fired by compatriots of his, but the enemy quickly patches them up.

Hey, yours was the lucky post number. Gonna go have a hoot, and get back to you in a moment...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Hey, yours was the lucky post number. Gonna go have a hoot, and get back to you in a moment...

Politics.

JV's no dummy.

 

[Adamastor]

Sorry, mods.

This is the article (same quasi-interview).

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...Service-doping-incident-during-2004-Tour.aspx

I double checked the ARD interview on
http://www.sportschau.de/sp/layout/jsp/komponente/mediaseite/index.jsp?id=110766#mbContent

and around 3min50, Floyd is asked: "So, Hincapie, Leipheimer, and yourself did it regularly? (doping) Floyd's answer: "Everybody I was with at Lance's victories did it..."

 

[Adamastor]

I analysed minutes ago the Stade 2 "Prolongations", sort of web TV where famous sports people and journalists give their opinions on reports shown during Stade 2 programme.

Nicolas Geay is the guy who interviewed Landis in California, and while he tries (clumsily) to stay objective, by always stating that Armstrong and Bruyneel are innocent till proven guilty, he mentions that Landis said to him off camera, that UCI doping controls were useless. Back in 2006, during the Tour I took EPO every day, and I wasn't caught. I ultimately got caught for testosterone.

The link is here, but this programme should disappear by end of this week.
http://sport.francetv.fr/stade2/prolongation.php

 

[thehog]

McQuaid is considering taking legal action over the claims and said: "It's very easy for Floyd Landis to make statements like that with no proof.

"Also, the journalist who interviewed him should have asked him for proof.
"He has already proven to be a liar and continues to be a liar. There is no truth in it, absolutely no truth in it."

- Bet you 10 bucks he doesn't take legal action.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/oth...-liar-landis-drug-coverup-claims-2441127.html

 

[D-Queued]

McQuaid is considering taking legal action over the claims and said: "It's very easy for Floyd Landis to make statements like that with no proof.

"Also, the journalist who interviewed him should have asked him for proof.
"He has already proven to be a liar and continues to be a liar. There is no truth in it, absolutely no truth in it."

- Bet you 10 bucks he doesn't take legal action.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/oth...-liar-landis-drug-coverup-claims-2441127.html

Betcha $20 that if he does, it gets dropped later.

Now, there is a defense fund I would contribute to!

Dave.

 

[theswordsman]

McQuaid is considering taking legal action over the claims and said: "It's very easy for Floyd Landis to make statements like that with no proof.

"Also, the journalist who interviewed him should have asked him for proof.
"He has already proven to be a liar and continues to be a liar. There is no truth in it, absolutely no truth in it."

- Bet you 10 bucks he doesn't take legal action.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/oth...-liar-landis-drug-coverup-claims-2441127.html

I'm cursed with a "big picture" type of personality that makes me try to piece things together. When I read that threat earlier, it got me wondering if Floyd might have had something like that in mind. Why, after playing nice for months, did he do interviews with ARD & Stade 2 where he was throwing some pretty big rocks at people, especially saying he wouldn't put it past the UCI to manipulate results - basically fixing races? Is there good money in interviews?

I went with the idea of a lawsuit for a minute, and applied the US version of the discovery process (I did it once). Imagine McQuaid under oath, and subject to questions on any subject under the sun, even if it's totally unrelated to the suit. They could ask questions about the Armstrong donations, black lists, an Armstrong positive at Tour de Suisse, Holczer being warned about Leipheimer's Tour de France levels, etc.

I guess my basic question is - was Floyd just letting off steam in exchange for some beer money, or was he using foreign (and in the case of ARD, hostile) media to pick a fight? Was he hoping that wiretapped phones would start ringing?

 

[thehog]

I'm cursed with a "big picture" type of personality that makes me try to piece things together. When I read that threat earlier, it got me wondering if Floyd might have had something like that in mind. Why, after playing nice for months, did he do interviews with ARD & Stade 2 where he was throwing some pretty big rocks at people, especially saying he wouldn't put it past the UCI to manipulate results - basically fixing races? Is there good money in interviews?

I went with the idea of a lawsuit for a minute, and applied the US version of the discovery process (I did it once). Imagine McQuaid under oath, and subject to questions on any subject under the sun, even if it's totally unrelated to the suit. They could ask questions about the Armstrong donations, black lists, an Armstrong positive at Tour de Suisse, Holczer being warned about Leipheimer's Tour de France levels, etc.

I guess my basic question is - was Floyd just letting off steam in exchange for some beer money, or was he using foreign (and in the case of ARD, hostile) media to pick a fight? Was he hoping that wiretapped phones would start ringing?

Floyd is Floyd. A really nice guy with some very sound principles but can be prickly at times. He's vastly independent but a great team player. He’s biggest asset is his sense of humour. Dry, acerbic and lethally funny.

There are 100’s of news outlets that want to interview Floyd. None the less because of the investigation there are a lot of question which are “no fly zones.” The suggestion of being paid is ironic. Armstrong himself spent years taking kickbacks for doing interviews and horning favours for his time. Floyd is not being paid for his interviews. I don’t think there is a lot in the timing of the interviews and most of the content is a repeat of what has already been said. There is still a lot of information which hasn’t entered the public arena. Floyd wrote two more full emails to the USADA/UCI and WADA on the doping practises at his time in USPS and Phonak. These still remain out of the public domain.

There will be no law suits form the UCI/Armstrong or anyone against Floyd. The UCI knows it. I think Floyd likes to wind up Lance and the UCI. The threat of a lawsuit makes it even more funny. What ever happened to that “cease and desist” letter from Hein? All those licence fees from the national federation paying a top law form to stop Floyd from doing what?

The UCI will probably survive this one but if they have been complicate allowing drug use within their races and of the riders then there in trouble. Taking fees form riders and national federations to then and allowing some riders to use more than others is creating an “unsafe” work environment. Employment law may get them. I’m not sure any other way the UCI can be “gotten at” by this investigation. Only the Swiss government could intervene. Even if Armstrong and co. are brought down I don’t think the UCI would do much. Of course there would be press releases about a “full investigation” but I don’t think a lot would be done. At the end of the day they are not voted in by the general public. They are a private organisation. The only other angle I think that could work on them is via Ernst and Young who is there auditor. No way EY will want to take the blame on poor financials ala Andersens. EY are international so an audit could be done from the US - it may have already done so.

 

[Ferminal]

"We've gone after Contador"

Right.