Le Tour 2018 stage 11: Albertville > La Rosière 108,5 km

[alspacka]

Obviously this stage had big effects on the GC and is indicative of form right now. But remember Froome (and Tom D) have ridden the giro, and Thomas it would be a big surprise if he doesn't bonk in at least one stage.

 

[arvc40]

Brilliant Stage !. Thomas really deserved that today !.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Brilliant Stage !. Thomas really deserved that today !.

Nah. Rode too much behind the train for that.
Nieve, Dumoulin and Valverde deserved it more

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

What Bardet and him did was the same thing. Really. Two mountain goats being exposed by the Sky riders and playing with each other like idiots. You blame one, you need to blame the other.

Bardet did try to get away.

 

[rlntlssly]

Re: Re:

I’m not disregarding what happened in races. I’m paying attention to the most important thing about races, their results.

Yes, results are the most important thing, just as taste is the most important part of enjoying a fancy dinner. But
whether it gives you diarrhoea is also worth considering.

Yet marks insist on arguing as if Thomas is some kid whose talent can be divined from the entrails of one performance when he once looked pretty good for a while before finishing way outside the top 10. He’s 32, for Gods sake and this is his 13th GT. Nobody has ever done what you are suggesting we should now accept as normal, even predictable, in the whole inglorious history of the sport. Lie to yourself if you must, but the rest of us are capable of reading the record books.

Right, we all know what you're saying. You've got the dog-whistle down very nicely indeed.

 

[shalgo]

Obviously this stage had big effects on the GC and is indicative of form right now. But remember Froome (and Tom D) have ridden the giro, and Thomas it would be a big surprise if he doesn't bonk in at least one stage.

This is what I was thinking. It still seems entirely possibly that Froome and Dumoulin will crack before the finish and, given his GT record, it is likely that Thomas will crack. I still think that someone other than those three could win.

 

[shalgo]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

What Bardet and him did was the same thing. Really. Two mountain goats being exposed by the Sky riders and playing with each other like idiots. You blame one, you need to blame the other.

Bardet did try to get away.

Bardet didn't really attack. He did a couple of those riding-away-for-ten-seconds-while-looking-over-my-shoulder-the-whole-time moves that Andy Schleck used to do. They completely lacked conviction.

 

[Red Rick]

Highly doubtful either of Froome or Thomas will crack

 

[Oude Geuze]

Re: Re:

I think I love Dumoulin even more now, so brave

If he sits up he wont lose time on Froome. Froome will leave him for dead once he catches him.


Dumoulin is working because he is racing for 3rd. So Brave.

Not sure if trolling, he attacked the entire sky team from very far out...

 

[guncha]

Re: Re:

Lol. No.

Chris Froome won his first GT as a mere child of 28 and at that point had already achieved two GT podiums. Geraint Thomas is 32, has no GT podiums, no GT top 5s, no GT top 10s. His best ever GT result, in no less than twelve starts, has been fifteenth. If Thomas wins this Tour (I don’t think he will), he will be the biggest GT nobody to win a Tour de France since WW2 and in a class of two modern GT winners with Mauri.

You can make a reasonable argument that Thomas was at least always obviously talented as a cyclist. You cannot make a reasonable argument that Thomas showed any signs of being a GT winner. Doing so is simply partisan dishonesty. Cheer for a rider you admire if you like. Lie to yourself if you like. But don’t lie to the rest of us.

Horner won Vuelta at 42. I don't think he had reasonable results beforehand, hadn't he?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Lol. No.

Chris Froome won his first GT as a mere child of 28 and at that point had already achieved two GT podiums. Geraint Thomas is 32, has no GT podiums, no GT top 5s, no GT top 10s. His best ever GT result, in no less than twelve starts, has been fifteenth. If Thomas wins this Tour (I don’t think he will), he will be the biggest GT nobody to win a Tour de France since WW2 and in a class of two modern GT winners with Mauri.

You can make a reasonable argument that Thomas was at least always obviously talented as a cyclist. You cannot make a reasonable argument that Thomas showed any signs of being a GT winner. Doing so is simply partisan dishonesty. Cheer for a rider you admire if you like. Lie to yourself if you like. But don’t lie to the rest of us.

Horner won Vuelta at 42. I don't think he had reasonable results beforehand, hadn't he?

Chris Horner was indeed one of the least previously successful modern GT winners. However, when he won the Vuelta he already had a Tour top 10 and two other GT finishes better than Thomas has had.

I don’t think some people here are really grasping how much of an outlier Thomas would be. His GT record isn’t that of a talented flake like Porte. Porte has much better results. It isn’t even like that of a supremely unreliable rider who nobody thinks has the makings of a leader like Poels. Poels has much better results. His record is worse than riders like Deignan.

 

[The Barb]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

What Bardet and him did was the same thing. Really. Two mountain goats being exposed by the Sky riders and playing with each other like idiots. You blame one, you need to blame the other.

Nairo is a great rider and to call him a disgrace is, in itself, disgraceful.

As an aside, he is also a thoroughly decent and humble human being. He lives similarly to how he did before becoming famous and is doing much to improve the lives of people from his area of Boyaca.

Even if he never pedals another stroke, his career and life will have both been resounding successes.

 

[fuiers]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

I can't disagree with that :Neutral:

I have only been watching pro cycling now closely over a year and I still haven´t seen anything from Quintana in a GT race.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Lol. No.

Chris Froome won his first GT as a mere child of 28 and at that point had already achieved two GT podiums. Geraint Thomas is 32, has no GT podiums, no GT top 5s, no GT top 10s. His best ever GT result, in no less than twelve starts, has been fifteenth. If Thomas wins this Tour (I don’t think he will), he will be the biggest GT nobody to win a Tour de France since WW2 and in a class of two modern GT winners with Mauri.

You can make a reasonable argument that Thomas was at least always obviously talented as a cyclist. You cannot make a reasonable argument that Thomas showed any signs of being a GT winner. Doing so is simply partisan dishonesty. Cheer for a rider you admire if you like. Lie to yourself if you like. But don’t lie to the rest of us.

Horner won Vuelta at 42. I don't think he had reasonable results beforehand, hadn't he?

Chris Horner was indeed one of the least previously successful modern GT winners. However, when he won the Vuelta he already had a Tour top 10 and two other GT finishes better than Thomas has had.

I don’t think some people here are really grasping how much of an outlier Thomas would be. His GT record isn’t that of a talented flake like Porte. Porte has much better results. It isn’t even like that of a supremely unreliable rider who nobody thinks has the makings of a leader like Poels. Poels has much better results. His record is worse than riders like Deignan.

Vuelta is also way easier to win than the Tour. Every 5 years or so you get a surprise winner of the Vuelta. Apart from the Pereiro fiasco in 2006, you basically never get a surprise winner of the Tour. Too many strong riders are there on top form - you can't just out peak everywhere there and get lucky - you pretty much have to be the strongest in the race.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Lol. No.

Chris Froome won his first GT as a mere child of 28 and at that point had already achieved two GT podiums. Geraint Thomas is 32, has no GT podiums, no GT top 5s, no GT top 10s. His best ever GT result, in no less than twelve starts, has been fifteenth. If Thomas wins this Tour (I don’t think he will), he will be the biggest GT nobody to win a Tour de France since WW2 and in a class of two modern GT winners with Mauri.

You can make a reasonable argument that Thomas was at least always obviously talented as a cyclist. You cannot make a reasonable argument that Thomas showed any signs of being a GT winner. Doing so is simply partisan dishonesty. Cheer for a rider you admire if you like. Lie to yourself if you like. But don’t lie to the rest of us.

Horner won Vuelta at 42. I don't think he had reasonable results beforehand, hadn't he?

Chris Horner was indeed one of the least previously successful modern GT winners. However, when he won the Vuelta he already had a Tour top 10 and two other GT finishes better than Thomas has had.

I don’t think some people here are really grasping how much of an outlier Thomas would be. His GT record isn’t that of a talented flake like Porte. Porte has much better results. It isn’t even like that of a supremely unreliable rider who nobody thinks has the makings of a leader like Poels. Poels has much better results. His record is worse than riders like Deignan.

I think it's you who're just ignoring everything we say. Froome was 13 seconds away from winning the Vuelta in 2011. That would have been an infinitely more surprising result than Thomas winning this Tour.

But he didn't win and hence, that result doesn't matter in your GT winning context, and hence it wasn't surprising when he won the Tour because he had been second once, and hence he wasn't a bigger surprise than Thomas.

I made a case for Thomas before - you posted a minute after so you might have missed it. I'm not going to repeat it but he has had so much bad luck the last years so he hasn't gotten results. But it has been obvious that he was on a trajectory of becoming a possible GT winner - you just have to had payed close attention to him. Otherwise, just look at his initials.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

I can't disagree with that :Neutral:

I have only been watching pro cycling now closely over a year and I still haven´t seen anything from Quintana in a GT race.

Did you watch when he won the Vuelta, or was 2nd overall and won on the hardest climb in the Giro last year? Because he's only ridden one and a half GTs since then, so it's not a great sample size.

 

[Oude Geuze]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

What Bardet and him did was the same thing. Really. Two mountain goats being exposed by the Sky riders and playing with each other like idiots. You blame one, you need to blame the other.

Nairo is a great rider and to call him a disgrace is, in itself, disgraceful.

As an aside, he is also a thoroughly decent and humble human being. He lives similarly to how he did before becoming famous and is doing much to improve the lives of people from his area of Boyaca.

Even if he never pedals another stroke, his career and life will have both been resounding successes.

Fully agree, people here go crazy from disappointment and resentment sometimes. It’s not pretty.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

What Bardet and him did was the same thing. Really. Two mountain goats being exposed by the Sky riders and playing with each other like idiots. You blame one, you need to blame the other.

Bardet did try to get away.

All those riders were spent. Really didn't try much with the strength they had which wasn't much.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

I can't disagree with that :Neutral:

I have only been watching pro cycling now closely over a year and I still haven´t seen anything from Quintana in a GT race.

Did you watch when he won the Vuelta, or was 2nd overall and won on the hardest climb in the Giro last year? Because he's only ridden one and a half GTs since then, so it's not a great sample size.

DFA, his comment is very suspicious TBH. Everybody knows that he didn't go to La Vuelta last year and he had a mediocre Tour because of the double. That's why he came in here with his silly comment of "1 year only" which I don't buy.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Lol. No.

Chris Froome won his first GT as a mere child of 28 and at that point had already achieved two GT podiums. Geraint Thomas is 32, has no GT podiums, no GT top 5s, no GT top 10s. His best ever GT result, in no less than twelve starts, has been fifteenth. If Thomas wins this Tour (I don’t think he will), he will be the biggest GT nobody to win a Tour de France since WW2 and in a class of two modern GT winners with Mauri.

You can make a reasonable argument that Thomas was at least always obviously talented as a cyclist. You cannot make a reasonable argument that Thomas showed any signs of being a GT winner. Doing so is simply partisan dishonesty. Cheer for a rider you admire if you like. Lie to yourself if you like. But don’t lie to the rest of us.

Horner won Vuelta at 42. I don't think he had reasonable results beforehand, hadn't he?

Chris Horner was indeed one of the least previously successful modern GT winners. However, when he won the Vuelta he already had a Tour top 10 and two other GT finishes better than Thomas has had.

I don’t think some people here are really grasping how much of an outlier Thomas would be. His GT record isn’t that of a talented flake like Porte. Porte has much better results. It isn’t even like that of a supremely unreliable rider who nobody thinks has the makings of a leader like Poels. Poels has much better results. His record is worse than riders like Deignan.

I think it's you who're just ignoring everything we say. Froome was 13 seconds away from winning the Vuelta in 2011. That would have been an infinitely more surprising result than Thomas winning this Tour.

But he didn't win and hence, that result doesn't matter in your GT winning context, and hence it wasn't surprising when he won the Tour because he had been second once, and hence he wasn't a bigger surprise than Thomas.

I made a case for Thomas before - you posted a minute after so you might have missed it. I'm not going to repeat it but he has had so much bad luck the last years so he hasn't gotten results. But it has been obvious that he was on a trajectory of becoming a possible GT winner - you just have to had payed close attention to him. Otherwise, just look at his initials.

Froome was only 26 at the 2011 Vuelta so your comparison is invalid. Thomas is 32 and is now looking like one of if not the best climbers in the world. Bad luck or not I don't recall him ever showing climbing ability like today before against similar competition albeit I will admit it was one stage and we need to see how he recovers the rest of the race. But right now I say he is a massive, massive outlier that can't be discussed here.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Nairo Quintana is a disgrace of a GC rider.

I can't disagree with that :Neutral:

I have only been watching pro cycling now closely over a year and I still haven´t seen anything from Quintana in a GT race.

Did you watch when he won the Vuelta, or was 2nd overall and won on the hardest climb in the Giro last year? Because he's only ridden one and a half GTs since then, so it's not a great sample size.

DFA, his comment is very suspicious TBH. Everybody knows that he didn't go to La Vuelta last year and he had a mediocre Tour because of the double. That's why he came in here with his silly comment of "1 year only" which I don't buy.

Very true! Imagine though if someone really had just started following GTs a year ago. All they would know is that Froome wins every time, sometimes by absolute domination, other times by an unbelievable comeback. But either way, he always wins. Pretty glad I didn't get into cycling during such a period, not sure I'd have stayed with it.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Highly doubtful either of Froome or Thomas will crack

Froome has to dispatch Thomas or vice versa. Could be interesting.

 

[armchairclimber]

Wow, some fairly insane commentary in this thread.

I don't like Sky, but GT has always been a good bike rider. You'll get idiots coming out with stuff like "you can't go from team pursuit champ to Grand Tour winner" when it has been demonstrated that you can. A good bike rider is a good bike rider. If they can change their body shape a bit, even big TT lumps can win Grand Tours ... Mig, Brad, Tom. Hell, mountain bikers are becoming sprinters and classics riders ... and ski jumpers are able to hang with top mountain goats on a bike.

People take positions of such certainty when, repeatedly, cycling shows us that there ain't no such thing.

And anyway, Geeeee (euugh) is in yellow ... he hasn't won. GVA was in yellow today FFS.

 

[Leinster]

Nothing G has done so far in this Tour is out of the ordinary for a rider with his palmares. Nor would it be a surprise if he were to do a Simon Yates in the Pyrenees.

When he went on the attack, everyone else in the group kept their eyes on Froome. I can’t help thinking, that their mindset was “it’ll be easier to make up a minute, even 2 minutes or more on G. If we give Froome 30s, we’ll never get it back.”

If Martin hadn’t attacked when he did, the way he did, I don’t think Froome would’ve got away alone, and I think that group would’ve come in another half minute of half-wheeling and looking around later than they did.

 

[Koronin]

Unlike Froome, G has at least always been a rider with potential. Can he fully live up to it is a different question, but it's been there.

Movistar totally shot themselves in the foot today. Some of the worst tactics I've seen in a long time. IF you're going to send someone from a distance your race leader had best darn well be ready to attack and bridge over. They totally wasted what could have been a good move. The ONLY rider to actually try to take advantage of that was Dumoulin, whom I give credit for using what Movistar did to help himself a bit.