Le Tour de France 2011 - the big one is coming

[Bavarianrider]

Why shouldn't the 20st bets climber be able to win the overall, if the 20th best tme trialer is easily able to win the overall standings.
The Tour is about the ebst allrounder, not about the best climber. At least that's what it should be

 

[movingtarget]

Don't have to worry about Menchov, as Geox aren't invited.
If anyone wants to beat Contador, this is the Tour to do it, as there is only one ITT, and it's shorter than last year.

Aah yes forgot about Geox's exclusion. Guess I am used to seeing Menchov in the race. As a few other people have mentioned, it would be good to see the time trials have more impact. Not only more km's but harder courses. At least in the Giro the TT courses have been experimented with sometimes. Maybe Two long time trials and no prologue, or a short team time trial even though I hate team time trials.

 

[icefire]

I am an Andreas Kloden fan, and yes I would like to see more TTkm's.

But what us TT fans are really asking for is just more variety from year to year in the amount of TT's. I don't want to see 100-150 km's of it every year, but some years should be more for the pure climbers, then others a little more for the pure TT's. This years TDF is the third in a row where there have been very few TTkm's, and this is even worse considering that the Giro and Vuelta have also not had too many TT's.

It's not like Tony Martin (on previous climbing form) would win this years TDF even if it had 150kms of ITT either. He'd still lose mountains of minutes to the Schlecks in the 4 very tough MTF's. What some of us are saying is that sometimes the parcours should give a good TT the chance to podium (and perhaps even win the race) as long as he is in the top 10 climbers in the race and not necessarily the best couple. Everyone has a go at Wiggins in '09, but he didn't even TT that well in that race - he actually climbed pretty well. He was well up on Verbier, and in the Queen stage he finished 7th I think. So it's not like he was only the 20th best climber in the race and finished 4th because of the TT's.

I can't remember a TT specialist having won the Tour in recent times just being in the top 10 climbers of the race. TT World Champs like Indurain and Ullrich were far better climbers in their time than just top 10. The same applies to the likes of Lemond, Fignon or Roche, not to say Hinault or Merckx. These examples cover the last 40 years of the Tour history.

If you want to win a GT being a TT specialist and a non outstanding climber you need:
1) to be Francesco Moser
2) to have a Giro course specially designed for you with climbs far away from the stage finishes
3) to have the help of hellicopters if your closest rival climbs better than you and is also good at TT

 

[killswitch]

I can't remember a TT specialist having won the Tour in recent times just being in the top 10 climbers of the race. TT World Champs like Indurain and Ullrich were far better climbers in their time than just top 10. The same applies to the likes of Lemond, Fignon or Roche, not to say Hinault or Merckx. These examples cover the last 40 years of the Tour history.

If you want to win a GT being a TT specialist and a non outstanding climber you need:
1) to be Francesco Moser
2) to have a Giro course specially designed for you with climbs far away from the stage finishes
3) to have the help of hellicopters if your closest rival climbs better than you and is also good at TT

4) to cancel Passo de Stelvio (toughest climb).
5) Pushed up the climbs by team support
6) Deny Fignon team car support

 

[cycladianpirate]

Seems to me that the only way to please everyone would be to change "Tour de" to "three weeks racing in and around" (or the French equivalent).

The constrictions on truly 'touring' France means that Geography dictates (at least to some extent) what sort of stages you're going to have - particularly with regard to similar types of stages being strung together.

As to ITTs, could one of the better informed people on this forum (which, on reflection, is probably everybody on this forum) tell me if putting one on the penultimate stage is a (fairly) recent development or a long tradition?

 

[Bavarianrider]

I can't remember a TT specialist having won the Tour in recent times just being in the top 10 climbers of the race. TT World Champs like Indurain and Ullrich were far better climbers in their time than just top 10. The same applies to the likes of Lemond, Fignon or Roche, not to say Hinault or Merckx. These examples cover the last 40 years of the Tour history.

If you want to win a GT being a TT specialist and a non outstanding climber you need:
1) to be Francesco Moser
2) to have a Giro course specially designed for you with climbs far away from the stage finishes
3) to have the help of hellicopters if your closest rival climbs better than you and is also good at TT

What do you mean with the help of the helicopters? Sounds intersting? Are you refering to a certain incident?

 

[movingtarget]

Even though the last stage in Paris is spectacular to look at it would be nice if they tried something different. It's just there for the TV viewers and we watch a criterium to wrap the race up every year. Why not try a time trial and use the same road or part of them. Maybe that's too much of a headache for the planners and the traffic disruption etc.....To me it's a wasted stage even though the commentators seem to get worked up about it and it does decide the green points jersey sometimes.

 

[icefire]

What do you mean with the help of the helicopters? Sounds intersting? Are you refering to a certain incident?

Yes. The last stage of the 1984 Giro was an ITT. Fignon was leading the GC with over a minute on Moser, so Moser started the ITT just before Fignon. Fignon stated that the TV hellicopter was flying too close to the riders making strong wind disturbances. Because of the race situation the hellicopter was always behind Moser creating tail wind for him, and in front of Fignon creating head wind.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Yes. The last stage of the 1984 Giro was an ITT. Fignon was leading the GC with over a minute on Moser, so Moser started the ITT just before Fignon. Fignon stated that the TV hellicopter was flying too close to the riders making strong wind disturbances. Because of the race situation the hellicopter was always behind Moser creating tail wind for him, and in front of Fignon creating head wind.

Thanks

 

[Magnus]

Even though the last stage in Paris is spectacular to look at it would be nice if they tried something different. It's just there for the TV viewers and we watch a criterium to wrap the race up every year. Why not try a time trial and use the same road or part of them. Maybe that's too much of a headache for the planners and the traffic disruption etc.....To me it's a wasted stage even though the commentators seem to get worked up about it and it does decide the green points jersey sometimes.

Vino jumped up one place in GC when he won the stage iirc

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Vino jumped up one place in GC when he won the stage iirc

yeah, but there was no htc train back then.

I'd much rather see a TT into paris.

 

[killswitch]

yeah, but there was no htc train back then.

I'd much rather see a TT into paris.

The last time there was a TT was in 1989...

 

[Ferminal]

yeah, but there was no htc train back then.

I'd much rather see a TT into paris.

Same, every few years to mix things up would be good.

 

[Frosty]

Is Peter Velits riding this year? If so, does anyone know if he is going to try at getting a GC place or just be a worker for Cav. Maybe he then goes for GC in the Vuelta again?

 

[Havetts]

Knowing HTC he'll just have to do leadouts and packpulling to keep the gap at 3 minutes difference steady..

 

[ManInFull]

Why shouldn't the 20st bets climber be able to win the overall, if the 20th best tme trialer is easily able to win the overall standings.
The Tour is about the ebst allrounder, not about the best climber. At least that's what it should be

The fact is, the MTF stages make for better television and I think that is a consideration. You can see the cyclists suffering and you can view the attacks and counter-attacks. And, the climbing lasts for a long period of time. Conversely, you can watch the last 2 minutes of a sprinter's stage and be done with it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The fact is, the MTF stages make for better television and I think that is a consideration. You can see the cyclists suffering and you can view the attacks and counter-attacks. And, the climbing lasts for a long period of time. Conversely, you can watch the last 2 minutes of a sprinter's stage and be done with it.

really? watching guys ride tempo until the last 5-10km is more entertaining than watching riders go all out against the clock?

I think time trials are entertaining. I quite like the suspense they bring.

I definetly think Prudhomme (if he is smart) should do a 30km tt into Paris for the 100th edition in 2013.

 

[UpTheRoad]

really? watching guys ride tempo until the last 5-10km is more entertaining than watching riders go all out against the clock?

I think time trials are entertaining. I quite like the suspense they bring.

I definitely think Prudhomme (if he is smart) should do a 30km tt into Paris for the 100th edition in 2013.

IIRC, the crowds are much, much smaller during the TTs. No way does the TdF want to [potentially] lose the scene of spectators 10 deep lining the Champs Elysees. That circuit is fun to watch and I don't think a TT would do it for the viewing public.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I agree, people just want 3 weeks of climbing. You have to give the sprinters something. Sprinting is an important element of the sport.

Stages I like:

Stage 5 to Cap Frehel: I think this will be a very interesting stage. Lots of rolling hills with big chances of cross winds which could be descisive.

Stage 6 to Lisieux: Some rolling hills which will suit the attacker.

Stage 14 to Plateau de Beille: It is a really tough stage with a really tough final climb.

And of course the stages to Serre Chevlier and the Alpe..

I think having climbs on the finishes of stage 1, 4 and 6 makes things a bit more unpredictable which is good.

I am more drawn to the climbing, but not drawn to only climbing. I agree sprints are an important part, not just for the TDU.

But hey, the first week is a good week for guys like Gilbert. I am hoping to see some breaks with guys like him in it, to maybe win a few and at least put some pressure on the sprint teams. That should help make a more exciting first week.

 

[Frosty]

I am more drawn to the climbing, but not drawn to only climbing. I agree sprints are an important part, not just for the TDU.

But hey, the first week is a good week for guys like Gilbert. I am hoping to see some breaks with guys like him in it, to maybe win a few and at least put some pressure on the sprint teams. That should help make a more exciting first week.

I thought the climbs were at the end so Gilbert would look to wait for then rather than go in a break away?

Looking at the letour site all the profiles are now up, im sure there were just a few mountain stages available last time i looked.

http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/fr/le_parcours.html

No last km yet though.

 

[Frosty]

Looking at the alpe d'huez stage i cant help thinking that some people are going to be in real trouble with the elimination time. With a TT the next day surely someone will want to go hard right from the bottom of the Telegraphe as their team mates may only have to survive the last two days. Coming so late in the tour and with a hard day the day before surely some people will not make it? Imagine there will be quite a few people with videophones to capture any tows.

Maybe the long descent will cause the favourites to slow a bit if no-one important is dropped allowing the autobus drivers to catch some time up.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

really? watching guys ride tempo until the last 5-10km is more entertaining than watching riders go all out against the clock?

I think time trials are entertaining. I quite like the suspense they bring.

I definetly think Prudhomme (if he is smart) should do a 30km tt into Paris for the 100th edition in 2013.

Can't speak for the Tour, but the Giro certainly has found that there is a massive drop-off in audience figures on flat stages and flat ITTs.

We, as big cycling fans, usually watch nonetheless, but the man in the street's interest is more piqued by the mountains, evidently.

 

[Ferminal]

Gilbert should win 1, 4 and 8. Possibly 9 too, which seems like it may go up at the end.

Sadly, with no time bonuses, he may not wear Yellow beyond the TTT, congrats to the GC contender whose team gets 1st in the TTT, Yellow until stage 12 almost guaranteed unless OPL and maybe a couple of other teams are close.

It would have been good if the Pinerolo stage had some tougher climbing, as the final ramp and descent may have been interesting. Phil is probably a chance to win this one too! Otherwise there's no big descent finish, which is disappointing. The Aubisque (aka 2nd rest day) could have been a selective descent finish, or canned altogether.

Looking at the alpe d'huez stage i cant help thinking that some people are going to be in real trouble with the elimination time. With a TT the next day surely someone will want to go hard right from the bottom of the Telegraphe as their team mates may only have to survive the last two days. Coming so late in the tour and with a hard day the day before surely some people will not make it? Imagine there will be quite a few people with videophones to capture any tows.

Maybe the long descent will cause the favourites to slow a bit if no-one important is dropped allowing the autobus drivers to catch some time up.

Or ridden easily like the Tourmalet stage last year (don't remember completely, but can't remember an insane pace, at least from the front of the peloton).

 

[Frosty]

Or ridden easily like the Tourmalet stage last year (don't remember completely, but can't remember an insane pace, at least from the front of the peloton).

No, there was a breakaway ahead for a long time? Suppose the difference with that stage was that there was a lot of flat before the Soulor so the whole peloton was probably together at the foot of that.

The first Tourmalet stage was quite different though as there were lots of attacks from the start before it came back together on the descent of the Aspin (for the first 60 anyway).

 

[El Pistolero]

Can't speak for the Tour, but the Giro certainly has found that there is a massive drop-off in audience figures on flat stages and flat ITTs.

We, as big cycling fans, usually watch nonetheless, but the man in the street's interest is more piqued by the mountains, evidently.

Geez, I wonder why a lot of people didn't bother to look at the final time trial this Giro. What's the deal with ending in a time trial after such a course anyway. I'd rather watch something like a Champs Elysees sprint then.