Le Tour de France 2011 - the big one is coming

[El Pistolero]

Hey, I'm just saying the first week won't be a snoozefest like previous years and that a contender caught napping will lose some time unwanted.

Liberty Seguros hatred for the Tour course isn't really justified. Just looked at all the profiles and I must say a pretty balanced Tour. Something for everyone. Puncheurs, sprinters, climbers, descenders and time trial specialists(although a hilly time trial should have been included)

I think I will enjoy this one more then the Giro. Don't expect Contador to win, but would be nice if he did. I expect great things from Him and also hope Greipel can pick up a stage win as he's been strong this season(perhaps not in pure sprinting power, but the way how he races and wins are very impressive)

 

[Havetts]

Won't be a snoozefest, only the last 2 minutes of the stages are exciting really of those hills anyway. Only the echelon forming stage could be fun.

 

[El Pistolero]

Won't be a snoozefest, only the last 2 minutes of the stages are exciting really of those hills anyway. Only the echelon forming stage could be fun.

Still, the Tropea stage @Giro was more interesting than Sestriere imo. Doesn't always have to be big mountains. Although stage 12 will be a killer.
What stage is the echelon one?

 

[Havetts]

To Cap Frehel .

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hey, I'm just saying the first week won't be a snoozefest like previous years and that a contender caught napping will lose some time unwanted.

Liberty Seguros hatred for the Tour course isn't really justified. Just looked at all the profiles and I must say a pretty balanced Tour. Something for everyone. Puncheurs, sprinters, climbers, descenders and time trial specialists(although a hilly time trial should have been included)

I think I will enjoy this one more then the Giro. Don't expect Contador to win, but would be nice if he did. I expect great things from Him and also hope Greipel can pick up a stage win as he's been strong this season(perhaps not in pure sprinting power, but the way how he races and wins are very impressive)

In terms of types of stages I'm not too fussed. I just dislike the pacing of it, with nearly two weeks before we get our first real GC shakedown. It just feels like we have nearly two weeks of "Gilbert or Cav?" before the race settles down. I'd have liked to see a couple of tough mountain stages after the first week then some more sprint and puncheur stages after that. The GC men always want to peak for week 3, so I would have liked something that threatened them with losing time if they weren't prepared. Instead it feels like it's all engineered to stop any significant time gaps emerging until week 3 again.

 

[El Pistolero]

In terms of types of stages I'm not too fussed. I just dislike the pacing of it, with nearly two weeks before we get our first real GC shakedown. It just feels like we have nearly two weeks of "Gilbert or Cav?" before the race settles down. I'd have liked to see a couple of tough mountain stages after the first week then some more sprint and puncheur stages after that. The GC men always want to peak for week 3, so I would have liked something that threatened them with losing time if they weren't prepared. Instead it feels like it's all engineered to stop any significant time gaps emerging until week 3 again.

The plus side is there aren't many sprinting stages in stage 12-21.

Besides watch Phil destroy the field is fun And if they race like in this year's Tour of Belgium then even a hill 50km from the finish isn't safe.

 

[roundabout]

It is?

This time around Pyrenees are almost as tough as the Alps in terms of difficulty. Plateau de Beille is arguably more difficult than Alpe d'Huez and the combination of Hourquette d'Ancizan, Tourmalet and Luz-Ardiden can produce pretty big gaps.

I do think there will be pretty large gaps after stage 14.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It is?

This time around Pyrenees are almost as tough as the Alps in terms of difficulty. Plateau de Beille is arguably more difficult than Alpe d'Huez and the combination of Hourquette d'Ancizan, Tourmalet and Luz-Ardiden can produce pretty big gaps.

I do think there will be pretty large gaps after stage 14.

But we have to wait until the Thursday of week 2 for a stage where the gaps will be more than a handful of seconds. That's almost into week 3. In 2008 when they did Brittany + Super-Besse, they had Hautacam and Aspin on the first weekend. Gaps were opened because riders who were very strong in week 3 (Valverde, Andy) hadn't peaked yet and had jours sans. Everybody important's going to be more or less at their TTT time until Luz-Ardiden. Makes it feel like 10 pretty wasted days in between.

Yes, we may get some interesting finishes for the likes of Gilbert, but it's like they crammed everything relevant to the GC into the last 9 days (accepting that the final stage will be a parade as usual).

What is there to watch for the GC-minded in weeks 1 and most of week 2? Well, maybe if we're lucky Mur-de-Brétagne and Super-Besse (approached from an easier route than 2008) will manage to put about 5-10 seconds between some guys. Big whoopee.

 

[rghysens]

What is there to watch for the GC-minded in weeks 1 and most of week 2? Well, maybe if we're lucky Mur-de-Brétagne and Super-Besse (approached from an easier route than 2008) will manage to put about 5-10 seconds between some guys. Big whoopee.

2008: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=stages/tour086
2011: http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/fr/800/etape_par_etape.html

They used the same way to Superbesse in 1978 (Paul Wellens), 1996 (R. Sörensen), 2008 (Ricco/Valverde) and 2011. So it isn't easier (nor more difficult)

edit: maybe you were talking about the whole stage, and not only the final climb. Those were different of course, but not that much: stages that arent too long or too short, rolling terrain for the first 120km or so, a 2nd category climb and the finish to Superbesse.

 

[Bala Verde]

Will Gilbert actually be that competitive during all the stages people believe he could/should win the first week of the TdF...

Since every team knows that many of these rolling stages suit Phil perfectly, how many teams will want to have someone in the break (every team) and how many teams will want to assist Gilbert to close the gap, in case he is not in the break himself (none)? Given that these stages are not for sprinters, there will be very few sprinters' teams interested in reeling in the break.

If Greipel, Gilbert and VDB2 are protected riders, but with different objectives (sprint stages; hilly stages; GC), how many riders can OLO realistically dedicate to one rider's objective, without sacrificing the chances for the other riders? I mean, can all of OLO domestiques ride 3 weeks non stop launching Greipel, dropping off Gilbert at the final ascent and protect VDB2?

I am thinking these intermediate stages can actually produce some firework, perhaps even with some GC favorites trying to gain some time on the steepest finishes. Otherwise, a lot of breaks might actually make it till the end.

 

[Lanark]

2008: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=stages/tour086
2011: http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/fr/800/etape_par_etape.html

They used the same way to Superbesse in 1978 (Paul Wellens), 1996 (R. Sörensen), 2008 (Ricco/Valverde) and 2011. So it isn't easier (nor more difficult)

edit: maybe you were talking about the whole stage, and not only the final climb. Those were different of course, but not that much.

No, 2008:

2011:

Much easier this year.

I think they did the same climb in 1996, but the run up to the climb was a lot more difficult.

 

[El Pistolero]

Will Gilbert actually be that competitive during all the stages people believe he could/should win the first week of the TdF...

Since every team knows that many of these rolling stages suit Phil perfectly, how many teams will want to have someone in the break (every team) and how many teams will want to assist Gilbert to close the gap, in case he is not in the break himself (none)? Given that these stages are not for sprinters, there will be very few sprinters' teams interested in reeling in the break.

If Greipel, Gilbert and VDB2 are protected riders, but with different objectives (sprint stages; hilly stages; GC), how many riders can OLO realistically dedicate to one rider's objective, without sacrificing the chances for the other riders? I mean, can all of OLO domestiques ride 3 weeks non stop launching Greipel, dropping off Gilbert at the final ascent and protect VDB2?

I am thinking these intermediate stages can actually produce some firework, perhaps even with some GC favorites trying to gain some time on the steepest finishes. Otherwise, a lot of breaks might actually make it till the end.

There's no way a breakaway will survive on the first day. Besides other people still think they can win, so they'll try. Everybody knew Valverde was going to win the first stage of the Tour in 2008, but it didn't stop other teams from pulling the break back in.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

2008: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=stages/tour086
2011: http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/fr/800/etape_par_etape.html

They used the same way to Superbesse in 1978 (Paul Wellens), 1996 (R. Sörensen), 2008 (Ricco/Valverde) and 2011. So it isn't easier (nor more difficult)

edit: maybe you were talking about the whole stage, and not only the final climb. Those were different of course, but not that much.

I was talking not about the final climb per se (there is a short descent before the final climb to Super-Besse) but the approach. The 'penultimate' climb is longer in 2008 as the profiles you show indicate - descending from the Croix-Morand takes you to a lower starting point for the final climb than descending from the Croix-Saint-Robert. In 2008 they dropped back down to 800m before starting to climb up to Super-Besse, whereas this year they are still at around 1000m. From Besse-et-Saint-Anastaise the climb is the same, but the longer climb in 2008 is reflected in the higher categorisation (cat.2 as opposed to cat.3 this year).

 

[The Hitch]

Looks like Ballan and Santanborgio will be there for Cuddles.

This time the Ballan doping scandal came out just right for Evans meaning he should be on form to work for Evans.

 

[rghysens]

No,

mmrflwrfltwwfghrds...

*goes off searching for his detailed michelin-maps*

 

[Skip Madness]

This time around Pyrenees are almost as tough as the Alps in terms of difficulty. Plateau de Beille is arguably more difficult than Alpe d'Huez and the combination of Hourquette d'Ancizan, Tourmalet and Luz-Ardiden can produce pretty big gaps.

No "almost" about it - the Plateau de Beille stage has almost as much climbing as the stage to the Galibier but with a far harder finishing climb, and the continuity, intensity and distance of the stage to Luz-Ardiden puts the one to Alpe d'Huez in the shade.

 

[dabar85]

What for me is the most important is list of riders. They are one who will make racing interesant. I'm only missing maybe one more 30 k time trial and finish on steep slope like mont du chat or granon. We will have 10 classics specialists and if there is way to beat gilbert, they would find it. We will have 3 best tour riders(alberto andy and basso) and plenty more contenders(evans, ...), best sprinters, domestiques, cancellara and you are afraid that tour would be bad race.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What for me is the most important is list of riders. They are one who will make racing interesant. I'm only missing maybe one more 30 k time trial and finish on steep slope like mont du chat or granon. We will have 10 classics specialists and if there is way to beat gilbert, they would find it. We will have 3 best tour riders(alberto andy and basso) and plenty more contenders(evans, ...), best sprinters, domestiques, cancellara and you are afraid that tour would be bad race.

Yes, we are afraid that the Tour will be a bad race. Because the Tour is so important that riders will be too afraid of losing to try to win. Because we will see things like Garmin getting on the front to pull the break back to protect 10th place. Because we will see things like Radioshack destroying breakaways to protect their lead in the teams classification. Because the race is sometimes too important to the teams for them to risk letting something unpredictable and potentially uncontrollable happen.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yes, we are afraid that the Tour will be a bad race. Because the Tour is so important that riders will be too afraid of losing to try to win. Because we will see things like Garmin getting on the front to pull the break back to protect 10th place. Because we will see things like Radioshack destroying breakaways to protect their lead in the teams classification. Because the race is sometimes too important to the teams for them to risk letting something unpredictable and potentially uncontrollable happen.

To be fair, that's extremely funny.

But riders like Gilbert aren't afraid of taking a few risks in such an important race, so I think this edition will be a very good one.

 

[Frosty]

There's no way a breakaway will survive on the first day. Besides other people still think they can win, so they'll try. Everybody knew Valverde was going to win the first stage of the Tour in 2008, but it didn't stop other teams from pulling the break back in.

Yeah, i suppose some people will hope that Gilbert wont be on top form or will want to finish second rather than the 6th they may finish if the break stays away. Also the yellow jersey will be up for grabs the next day in the TTT and some teams will want to make sure the breakaway doesnt get any significant lead at all.

 

[dabar85]

Yes, we are afraid that the Tour will be a bad race. Because the Tour is so important that riders will be too afraid of losing to try to win. Because we will see things like Garmin getting on the front to pull the break back to protect 10th place. Because we will see things like Radioshack destroying breakaways to protect their lead in the teams classification. Because the race is sometimes too important to the teams for them to risk letting something unpredictable and potentially uncontrollable happen.

That is called racing class, in other races that things can happen because there is no depth in peloton, and teams cannot do that. Look the rosters for the tour and for other races, the difference is huge.

 

[dabar85]

And one more thing, if gilbert decided to ride giro he would win all of this stages with final climb, gatto, strade bianche, gadret...and would win it very easily. In the tour there is much bigger chance that he won't win because of the class. Put contador out of giro, the margins were little but class of other riders is much lower. I adore giro parcours, and it's the best for fans, but there is lack of quality there and that's why tour is the biggest race. If zomegnan can have roster like tour that would be excellent and than giro can be measured with tour. Tour riders on giro parcours, that would be excellent.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That is called racing class, in other races that things can happen because there is no depth in peloton, and teams cannot do that. Look the rosters for the tour and for other races, the difference is huge.

And I'd rather watch small football teams play an exciting match than Manchester United and Real Madrid play out a 0-0 draw. Just because you have better players doesn't mean the match will be any better - just that more people will want to watch it, which means more is riding on it, which means more is at stake if you lose.

Not losing is more important than winning at the Tour. I'd rather see exciting racing between a few medium-sized names giving it their all, than a roll-call of the biggest names in the sport riding in formation. If you disagree, then fine, that's your call - but don't call us out for saying we think the race will be worse than others.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I just watched a video on Rabosport.nl about the altitude camp Gesink, LL Sanchez, Barredo and Garate had.

According to trainer Delahaye they do a test the last day on the Alto de Monachil (spelling?), like they do every year after altitude camp. It provides a base of comparison to previous years. He says the data indicates that the level of this year is higher than last year yet again. So Gesink is still improving and they do another altitude camp after the Dauphine. I hope that he is on the right track and not peaking too early again.

not too shabby.

And I'd rather watch small football teams play an exciting match than Manchester United and Real Madrid play out a 0-0 draw. Just because you have better players doesn't mean the match will be any better - just that more people will want to watch it, which means more is riding on it, which means more is at stake if you lose.

What about barca destroying man utd with some beautiful football.

---

lol el pickle will eat his words if gilbert fails.

 

[Parrulo]

And I'd rather watch small football teams play an exciting match than Manchester United and Real Madrid play out a 0-0 draw. Just because you have better players doesn't mean the match will be any better - just that more people will want to watch it, which means more is riding on it, which means more is at stake if you lose.

Not losing is more important than winning at the Tour. I'd rather see exciting racing between a few medium-sized names giving it their all, than a roll-call of the biggest names in the sport riding in formation. If you disagree, then fine, that's your call - but don't call us out for saying we think the race will be worse than others.

oh great post libertine

i much prefer watching great racing then a parade of big names riding has defensively as possible. if stage 15 of this years giro was in the tour it would most likely go as follows: summer rider to the foot of the last climb and then decided everything on the last k of that climb.