Leading GB cyclist tests positive (yikes)!

[Benotti69]

Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

Link? Or is this just made up?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

Link? Or is this just made up?

Orica Greenedge, Simon Yates team, in their statement called it a 'new drug'. Not in use in USA.

Orica Greened are going with inhaler story but Terbutaline, is normally injected or taken orally.

But they could've just made that up!

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

Nah, it's typical Daily Mail stirring. No other paper would run the story as there isn't one.

How is a young British star getting an adverse finding not a story? Just because Orica seem to have expected that the authorities would grant him a retrospective tue or deal with the issue secretly in some other way doesn't mean that there's no story here.

In fact, Orica's apparent expectation that this would simply be dealt with secretly seems to me to be a story in itself.

'Orica in paperwork ***-up' is not a story worth running. It really isn't.

This is cycling. Of course its a story.

Now Orica are blaming British Cycling for a leak.

So we're in a situation where one of BC or Orica is going to come out of it badly. One or both organisations is either corrupt or incompetent in some way. Juicy. Let the trial by media begin...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

Link? Or is this just made up?

In case you might have just jumped in without reading previous posts and levelling accusations without thought here read these;

Also, as far as asthma medications go, Terbutaline seems a bit exotic. Maybe it's all the rage in Australia?

That was my thought too. I have moderate asthma - I was diagnosed when I was 3 years old, have been on daily inhalers since 7 or so, I've needed an ambulance to A&E several times. For urgent relief of symptoms I've never had anything other than salbutamol. When I was in ER it was still salbutamol, but delivered through a mask/nebuliser in higher doses. I've lived in Ireland and the USA, and salbutamol was the standard treatment in both. It also doesn't need a TUE, unless you're taking doses that you'd only need if you were very sick (sorry Diego Ulissi).

So if you don't need a TUE for salbutamol, why take terbutaline? Any asthmatics here have first hand experience of it? Maybe it has other side effects? Clenbuterol was another asthma drug, but it's not used any more because of its other side effects like increased heart rate and weight loss (sorry Alberto Contador). I looked it up and apparently terbutaline isn't available in the USA any more. So at least one major country doesn't think it's a suitable asthma drug.

The TUE abuse thing annoys me - I do (very low level) amateur racing and don't want to be accused of exaggerating or faking my illness, an illness that had a serious effect on my childhood (and could have killed me 2 or 3 times), for some small performance benefit. The people calling for asthma drugs to be banned in competition annoy me even more - it's bad enough there's this wheezing nerd stereotype, now you want to kick people with a treatable condition out of sport? There's a history of insulin abuse in cycling (sorry Marco Pantani) but you don't hear people calling for Team Novo Nordisk to be thrown out of the sport.

 

[The Hitch]

Standard Daily Hatemail bs then. Phew.

What else do you expect? There's never any substance to anything in that paper. They grab a quote out of context and blow it up to create a news story, just like what they're trying to do with BC & Sutton at the moment.

Did you come accross the story that the bike shop where Shane Sutton was living was selling the Sky gear that went missing?

Or you going to find a way to discredit that too?

It's already been discredited, Hitch.

link?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

Link? Or is this just made up?

Orica Greenedge, Simon Yates team, in their statement called it a 'new drug'. Not in use in USA.

Orica Greened are going with inhaler story but Terbutaline, is normally injected or taken orally.

But they could've just made that up!

Here is Orica Greenedge's statement, direct from their website:

"Statement regarding Simon Yates’ adverse analytical finding
On April 22, the team was notified that Simon Yates has an adverse analytical finding from a test conducted at Paris-Nice, stage 6 on March 12, 2016.

The positive result is for the substance Terbutaline.

The substance was given to Simon Yates in the form an asthma inhaler and accordingly, this was noted by the team doctor on the Doping Control Form, signed at the time of the test.

The substance was given in an ongoing treatment of Simon Yates’ documented asthma problems. However, in this case the team doctor made an administrative error by failing to apply for the TUE required for the use of this treatment.

The use of Terbutaline without a current TUE is the reason it has been flagged as an adverse analytical finding. This is solely based on a human error that the doctor in question has taken full responsibility for.

There has been no wrong-doing on Simon Yates’ part. The team takes full responsibility for this mistake and wishes to underline their support for Simon during this process.

The team is concerned by the leak of this information and has no further comments until there has been a full evaluation made of the documentation, statements and evidence that the team and Simon Yates are now submitting to the UCI in order to clarify everything."

Could you underline the word new for me please. Or even point out where they call it a "new drug"?

It is not a new drug, I can find clinical comparison papers from 1970.

Do you have a link to show it is normally injected of in tablet form? Because again, I can find papers from 1970 talking about inhaled terbutaline.

Or... You could have just made that all up?

 

[gillan1969]

a cursory google search knocking out the last week brings no mention of yates with asthma on at least the first few pages

perhaps not as documented as they hoped?

isaying you have asthma should really be part of signing a new pro contract...just to cover any future eventualites

 

[luckyboy]

Turns out he hadn't had a TUE for terbutaline before. That would've been the only lifeline for avoiding a ban.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

Link? Or is this just made up?

Orica Greenedge, Simon Yates team, in their statement called it a 'new drug'. Not in use in USA.

Orica Greened are going with inhaler story but Terbutaline, is normally injected or taken orally.

But they could've just made that up!

Here is Orica Greenedge's statement, direct from their website:

"Statement regarding Simon Yates’ adverse analytical finding
On April 22, the team was notified that Simon Yates has an adverse analytical finding from a test conducted at Paris-Nice, stage 6 on March 12, 2016.

The positive result is for the substance Terbutaline.

The substance was given to Simon Yates in the form an asthma inhaler and accordingly, this was noted by the team doctor on the Doping Control Form, signed at the time of the test.

The substance was given in an ongoing treatment of Simon Yates’ documented asthma problems. However, in this case the team doctor made an administrative error by failing to apply for the TUE required for the use of this treatment.

The use of Terbutaline without a current TUE is the reason it has been flagged as an adverse analytical finding. This is solely based on a human error that the doctor in question has taken full responsibility for.

There has been no wrong-doing on Simon Yates’ part. The team takes full responsibility for this mistake and wishes to underline their support for Simon during this process.

The team is concerned by the leak of this information and has no further comments until there has been a full evaluation made of the documentation, statements and evidence that the team and Simon Yates are now submitting to the UCI in order to clarify everything."

Could you underline the word new for me please. Or even point out where they call it a "new drug"?

It is not a new drug, I can find clinical comparison papers from 1970.

Do you have a link to show it is normally injected of in tablet form? Because again, I can find papers from 1970 talking about inhaled terbutaline.

Or... You could have just made that all up?

Matt Slatter got it from Orica

Matt Slater @mjshrimper
Orica admits this was new drug for Simon Yates, no previous TUE for it. Hard to see how he can avoid a sanction.

Scott Lanyon ‏@thesplanyon2010
@mjshrimper where's that from Matt?

Matt Slater ‏@mjshrimper 27m27 minutes ago
@thesplanyon2010 phoning them up!

Or Matt could've just made it up, but not Orica they don't make stuff up, shaking hands with a pharmacist leads to PED positives!

 

[hrotha]

As some people have noted, the whole "administrative error" angle is disingenuous. Even if you apply for a TUE, you're not guaranteed to be greenlighted. Taking the PED before having the TUE is cheating no matter how you look at it.

I fully expect a repeat of the Impey case though. Completely different, but every bit as ridiculous.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

Link? Or is this just made up?

In case you might have just jumped in without reading previous posts and levelling accusations without thought here read these;

Also, as far as asthma medications go, Terbutaline seems a bit exotic. Maybe it's all the rage in Australia?

That was my thought too. I have moderate asthma - I was diagnosed when I was 3 years old, have been on daily inhalers since 7 or so, I've needed an ambulance to A&E several times. For urgent relief of symptoms I've never had anything other than salbutamol. When I was in ER it was still salbutamol, but delivered through a mask/nebuliser in higher doses. I've lived in Ireland and the USA, and salbutamol was the standard treatment in both. It also doesn't need a TUE, unless you're taking doses that you'd only need if you were very sick (sorry Diego Ulissi).

So if you don't need a TUE for salbutamol, why take terbutaline? Any asthmatics here have first hand experience of it? Maybe it has other side effects? Clenbuterol was another asthma drug, but it's not used any more because of its other side effects like increased heart rate and weight loss (sorry Alberto Contador). I looked it up and apparently terbutaline isn't available in the USA any more. So at least one major country doesn't think it's a suitable asthma drug.

The TUE abuse thing annoys me - I do (very low level) amateur racing and don't want to be accused of exaggerating or faking my illness, an illness that had a serious effect on my childhood (and could have killed me 2 or 3 times), for some small performance benefit. The people calling for asthma drugs to be banned in competition annoy me even more - it's bad enough there's this wheezing nerd stereotype, now you want to kick people with a treatable condition out of sport? There's a history of insulin abuse in cycling (sorry Marco Pantani) but you don't hear people calling for Team Novo Nordisk to be thrown out of the sport.

Don't worry, I read it.

I'm sorry, you seem to think anecdote = data. I'm afraid you are very, very wrong about that. One poster doesn't take terbutaline so therefore it's rare? He also clearly has no idea why it might be prescribed and cannot do a simple google search or he would have found that it is very much still available in the US on prescription:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/index.cfm?fuseaction=Search.Overview&DrugName=TERBUTALINE%20SULFATE

So you just take as fact whatever a single post in a thread says? No, I didn't think so.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Matt Slatter got it from Orica

Matt Slater @mjshrimper
Orica admits this was new drug for Simon Yates, no previous TUE for it. Hard to see how he can avoid a sanction.

Scott Lanyon ‏@thesplanyon2010
@mjshrimper where's that from Matt?

Matt Slater ‏@mjshrimper 27m27 minutes ago
@thesplanyon2010 phoning them up!

Seriously? You can't understand the difference between a drug someone hasn't taken before described as new and a new to market drug?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

it's a non story. Of course no one wishes to discuss the most important issue. That all AAFS are supposed to remain private. It's a disgrace that British Cycling has leaked this information to divert attention from their internal issues. A rubbish organisation.

Cyclist who doesn't have asthma is caught taking a non common asthma medication without TUE is a non story!

Really? This is a big story so much so the Guardian has an article on levels of so called asthmatics in sport.

The idea the Yates is only on Terbutaline and this is not part of a cocktail of PEDS is also funny.

Link? Or is this just made up?

In case you might have just jumped in without reading previous posts and levelling accusations without thought here read these;

Also, as far as asthma medications go, Terbutaline seems a bit exotic. Maybe it's all the rage in Australia?

That was my thought too. I have moderate asthma - I was diagnosed when I was 3 years old, have been on daily inhalers since 7 or so, I've needed an ambulance to A&E several times. For urgent relief of symptoms I've never had anything other than salbutamol. When I was in ER it was still salbutamol, but delivered through a mask/nebuliser in higher doses. I've lived in Ireland and the USA, and salbutamol was the standard treatment in both. It also doesn't need a TUE, unless you're taking doses that you'd only need if you were very sick (sorry Diego Ulissi).

So if you don't need a TUE for salbutamol, why take terbutaline? Any asthmatics here have first hand experience of it? Maybe it has other side effects? Clenbuterol was another asthma drug, but it's not used any more because of its other side effects like increased heart rate and weight loss (sorry Alberto Contador). I looked it up and apparently terbutaline isn't available in the USA any more. So at least one major country doesn't think it's a suitable asthma drug.

The TUE abuse thing annoys me - I do (very low level) amateur racing and don't want to be accused of exaggerating or faking my illness, an illness that had a serious effect on my childhood (and could have killed me 2 or 3 times), for some small performance benefit. The people calling for asthma drugs to be banned in competition annoy me even more - it's bad enough there's this wheezing nerd stereotype, now you want to kick people with a treatable condition out of sport? There's a history of insulin abuse in cycling (sorry Marco Pantani) but you don't hear people calling for Team Novo Nordisk to be thrown out of the sport.

Don't worry, I read it.

I'm sorry, you seem to think anecdote = data. I'm afraid you are very, very wrong about that. One poster doesn't take terbutaline so therefore it's rare? He also clearly has no idea why it might be prescribed and cannot do a simple google search or he would have found that it is very much still available in the US on prescription:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/index.cfm?fuseaction=Search.Overview&DrugName=TERBUTALINE%20SULFATE

So you just take as fact whatever a single post in a thread says? No, I didn't think so.

I'd rather take posters anecdotal posts as fact over anything from official sports teams, athletes, federations or similar.

Yates just doing what all are doing, taking PEDs to try and stay competitive and make some money doing it. That is the culture.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Matt Slatter got it from Orica

Matt Slater @mjshrimper
Orica admits this was new drug for Simon Yates, no previous TUE for it. Hard to see how he can avoid a sanction.

Scott Lanyon ‏@thesplanyon2010
@mjshrimper where's that from Matt?

Matt Slater ‏@mjshrimper 27m27 minutes ago
@thesplanyon2010 phoning them up!

Seriously? You can't understand the difference between a drug someone hasn't taken before described as new and a new to market drug?

Did Yates dope?

I think he did and he got caught. Now whether Orica and yates can weasel out of it like lots of others is to be seen, but that doesn't mean they were not cheating.

 

[hrotha]

Jesus, what a huge cop-out, Benotti. Stop arguing with windmills and just admit you were wrong.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Don't worry, I read it.

I'm sorry, you seem to think anecdote = data. I'm afraid you are very, very wrong about that. One poster doesn't take terbutaline so therefore it's rare? He also clearly has no idea why it might be prescribed and cannot do a simple google search or he would have found that it is very much still available in the US on prescription:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/index.cfm?fuseaction=Search.Overview&DrugName=TERBUTALINE%20SULFATE

So you just take as fact whatever a single post in a thread says? No, I didn't think so.

I'd rather take posters anecdotal posts as fact over anything from official sports teams, athletes, federations or similar.

Yates just doing what all are doing, taking PEDs to try and stay competitive and make some money doing it. That is the culture.

Yes, but this has nothing to do with the discussion does it? The discussion is about you claiming it was a non-common asthma medication with absolutely no knowledge of what you were talking about, claiming that because a previous poster had said this that means it's true and then trying to blame it on OGE through a ridiculous reading of a tweet while also claiming it was in their statement.

It's very easy, don't make stuff up.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Jesus, what a huge cop-out, Benotti. Stop arguing with windmills and just admit you were wrong.

Sorry, Yates is a nice clean young man who would never cheat.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Jesus, what a huge cop-out, Benotti. Stop arguing with windmills and just admit you were wrong.

i see a pattern in your posts. And it has increasingly little to do with contents.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Matt Slatter got it from Orica

Matt Slater @mjshrimper
Orica admits this was new drug for Simon Yates, no previous TUE for it. Hard to see how he can avoid a sanction.

Scott Lanyon ‏@thesplanyon2010
@mjshrimper where's that from Matt?

Matt Slater ‏@mjshrimper 27m27 minutes ago
@thesplanyon2010 phoning them up!

Seriously? You can't understand the difference between a drug someone hasn't taken before described as new and a new to market drug?

Did Yates dope?

I think he did and he got caught. Now whether Orica and yates can weasel out of it like lots of others is to be seen, but that doesn't mean they were not cheating.

I could not care less if Yates dopes or not, I have reached the point where I watch cycling for the spectacle and nothing more, as with every other professional sport I have an interest in.

What annoys me is when something that is clearly false gets made up and repeated in the clinic, it ruins threads, discussions and causes constant arguments.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Jesus, what a huge cop-out, Benotti. Stop arguing with windmills and just admit you were wrong.

Sorry, Yates is a nice clean young man who would never cheat.

And another strawman.

 

[Chaddy]

Re: Re:

Jesus, what a huge cop-out, Benotti. Stop arguing with windmills and just admit you were wrong.

Sorry, Yates is a nice clean young man who would never cheat.

Seriously, you should look at a career in politics, the way you avoid answering a question is fantastic.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
I could not care less if Yates dopes or not, I have reached the point where I watch cycling for the spectacle and nothing more, as with every other professional sport I have an interest in.

What annoys me is when something that is clearly false gets made up and repeated in the clinic, it ruins threads, discussions and causes constant arguments.

what is clearly false and got made up?

 

[Eshnar]

Benotti, if you have any real evidence to counter KB you could post it. Or you can just admit you misinterpreted/trusted the wrong sources and move on. Surely this does not have to last for ages...?

 

[veji11]

I am sorry but to me TUEs are a massive issue. Elite sports are about performance but also endurance, as in quite litteraly capacity to endure. So now we are going to say that it's not ok to help a rider perform better (doping) but a rider / athlete who can perform "naturally" at a high level except for the tiny issue that his body can't quite endure it (ie extreme sports' asthma for example) is perfectly entitled to be helped using a TUE ?

TUEs for recreational lowish level sports, why not. But TUEs for elite sports. Sorry but no. It's time athletes stopped competing to get cured of whatever disease they have rather than take boatloads of medications and keep going.

I mean basically the 2 best cross country skiers in the last few years, Bjoergen and Sundby are just loaded with anti asthma medication... This just doesn't cut it.