Leading GB cyclist tests positive (yikes)!

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Matt Slatter got it from Orica

Matt Slater @mjshrimper
Orica admits this was new drug for Simon Yates, no previous TUE for it. Hard to see how he can avoid a sanction.

Scott Lanyon ‏@thesplanyon2010
@mjshrimper where's that from Matt?

Matt Slater ‏@mjshrimper 27m27 minutes ago
@thesplanyon2010 phoning them up!

Seriously? You can't understand the difference between a drug someone hasn't taken before described as new and a new to market drug?

Did Yates dope?

I think he did and he got caught. Now whether Orica and yates can weasel out of it like lots of others is to be seen, but that doesn't mean they were not cheating.

I could not care less if Yates dopes or not, I have reached the point where I watch cycling for the spectacle and nothing more, as with every other professional sport I have an interest in.

What annoys me is when something that is clearly false gets made up and repeated in the clinic, it ruins threads, discussions and causes constant arguments.

If you care not a jot, why bother with the Clinic? one might deduce to troll, one might.....

The basic premise is Yates doped. End of. If people want to search for an answer to why a rider took a banned substance and find another answer then the clinic is not the place for them.

Terbutaline is not a common drug. Salbutamol and Ventolin are. Till Yates was caught with it i had never heard of it and I know people with 'real' asthma and the types of medication they are on because i ask them. Orica called it a 'new drug' and i and never heard of it. Plenty of riders in peloton claim to have asthma never heard any of them taking Terbutaline. So 'new' is the correct term in Yates case.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Reading through thé case i have come up with what could be an explanation.
Yates comes back to europe from warm training camp in SA. On his first races back in Ardèche he becomes victim to asthma. The team prescribe medication quickly because they need him competitve for Paris Nice however Forget to ask for Tue. He then test positive and in the light of the Sutton scandal British cycling leak the story to relieve pressure on the coach.
Conclusion orica and British cycling are incompetent and Yates is a mere victim.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Benotti, if you have any real evidence to counter KB you could post it. Or you can just admit you misinterpreted/trusted the wrong sources and move on. Surely this does not have to last for ages...?

benotti indicated his sources, and I've seen similar.
maybe king boonen can provide evidence that it's wrong.

 

[Benotti69]

As far as i know Simon Yates is the first rider to be caught using Terbulatine as a PED. That imo makes it a 'new' drug. Orica called it a 'new' drug.

 

[TheSpud]

I'm with KB on this one - it was quite clear they said it was a new drug for Yates.

Also I thought ventolin and salbutamol were the same?

 

[hrotha]

Re:

As far as i know Simon Yates is the first rider to be caught using Terbulatine as a PED. That imo makes it a 'new' drug. Orica called it a 'new' drug.

For him. A new drug for him.

https://www.google.com/patents/US3937838

 

[veji11]

Re:

Reading through thé case i have come up with what could be an explanation.
Yates comes back to europe from warm training camp in SA. On his first races back in Ardèche he becomes victim to asthma. The team prescribe medication quickly because they need him competitve for Paris Nice however Forget to ask for Tue. He then test positive and in the light of the Sutton scandal British cycling leak the story to relieve pressure on the coach.
Conclusion orica and British cycling are incompetent and Yates is a mere victim.

And yet he should get suspended, just like Offredo got suspended for the missed tests in the Adams software despite the fact that it was his team who forgot to write in his correct location for what turned out to be his third no-show.

If you start covering for athletes who are "mere victims" than you will see "mere victims" coming up every time...

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Reading through thé case i have come up with what could be an explanation.
Yates comes back to europe from warm training camp in SA. On his first races back in Ardèche he becomes victim to asthma. The team prescribe medication quickly because they need him competitve for Paris Nice however Forget to ask for Tue. He then test positive and in the light of the Sutton scandal British cycling leak the story to relieve pressure on the coach.
Conclusion orica and British cycling are incompetent and Yates is a mere victim.

And yet he should get suspended, just like Offredo got suspended for the missed tests in the Adams software despite the fact that it was his team who forgot to write in his correct location for what turned out to be his third no-show.

If you start covering for athletes who are "mere victims" than you will see "mere victims" coming up every time...

Disagree, the rider was not at fault it seems. The team itself has said that it is responsible so the team should face the consequences. A fine, ban from one wt race, and anything else that impedes the team but not the rider. If we start going after the rider it sets a bad precedent for such cases. Yates should be able to ride.

 

[Eshnar]

Taking a drug without a TUE is doping. You ask for a TUE, you make sure you got the TUE, and THEN you take the drug. If you don't do so, it is doping just as Epo or transfusion. Either we always go after the doctor, or we always go after the rider. Or even better, we go after both.

 

[sniper]

Re:

I'm with KB on this one - it was quite clear they said it was a new drug for Yates.

Also I thought ventolin and salbutamol were the same?

the vortex started when benotti said "non common asthma medication" and king boonen suggested this was "made up".
wrong or not, it wasn't made up. I've read it elsewhere on twitter.

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Reading through thé case i have come up with what could be an explanation.
Yates comes back to europe from warm training camp in SA. On his first races back in Ardèche he becomes victim to asthma. The team prescribe medication quickly because they need him competitve for Paris Nice however Forget to ask for Tue. He then test positive and in the light of the Sutton scandal British cycling leak the story to relieve pressure on the coach.
Conclusion orica and British cycling are incompetent and Yates is a mere victim.

And yet he should get suspended, just like Offredo got suspended for the missed tests in the Adams software despite the fact that it was his team who forgot to write in his correct location for what turned out to be his third no-show.

If you start covering for athletes who are "mere victims" than you will see "mere victims" coming up every time...

Disagree, the rider was not at fault it seems. The team itself has said that it is responsible so the team should face the consequences. A fine, ban from one wt race, and anything else that impedes the team but not the rider. If we start going after the rider it sets a bad precedent for such cases. Yates should be able to ride.

No the rider is at fault because ultimately the responsability lies on him to ride with the proper authorisations. What should happen is for him to get suspended and for Orica to fire / sanction / whatever they want to do their team doctor for his mistake. Yates should even be able to sue the doctor for damages BUT the heart of the anti doping procedures is that ultimate responsability for what is in his blood lies with the rider and he should bear it. Otherwise the Offredos of the world and many others will or could in the future efficiently hide behind this "clerical error, innocent rider" excuse.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Reading through thé case i have come up with what could be an explanation.
Yates comes back to europe from warm training camp in SA. On his first races back in Ardèche he becomes victim to asthma. The team prescribe medication quickly because they need him competitve for Paris Nice however Forget to ask for Tue. He then test positive and in the light of the Sutton scandal British cycling leak the story to relieve pressure on the coach.
Conclusion orica and British cycling are incompetent and Yates is a mere victim.

And yet he should get suspended, just like Offredo got suspended for the missed tests in the Adams software despite the fact that it was his team who forgot to write in his correct location for what turned out to be his third no-show.

If you start covering for athletes who are "mere victims" than you will see "mere victims" coming up every time...

Disagree, the rider was not at fault it seems. The team itself has said that it is responsible so the team should face the consequences. A fine, ban from one wt race, and anything else that impedes the team but not the rider. If we start going after the rider it sets a bad precedent for such cases. Yates should be able to ride.

That's just what the team said, it doesn't make it true. Team's lie all the time, to you, me, the fans, the riders, the UCI, the race organizers, to their own staff.

 

[hrotha]

The rider is ultimately responsible, even if they delegate on the doctor.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Reading through thé case i have come up with what could be an explanation.
Yates comes back to europe from warm training camp in SA. On his first races back in Ardèche he becomes victim to asthma. The team prescribe medication quickly because they need him competitve for Paris Nice however Forget to ask for Tue. He then test positive and in the light of the Sutton scandal British cycling leak the story to relieve pressure on the coach.
Conclusion orica and British cycling are incompetent and Yates is a mere victim.

And yet he should get suspended, just like Offredo got suspended for the missed tests in the Adams software despite the fact that it was his team who forgot to write in his correct location for what turned out to be his third no-show.

If you start covering for athletes who are "mere victims" than you will see "mere victims" coming up every time...

Disagree, the rider was not at fault it seems. The team itself has said that it is responsible so the team should face the consequences. A fine, ban from one wt race, and anything else that impedes the team but not the rider. If we start going after the rider it sets a bad precedent for such cases. Yates should be able to ride.

Too bad they left MPCC.

 

[veji11]

Re:

The rider is ultimately responsible, even if they delegate on the doctor.

This.

The rider needs to be suspended : Banned substance with no TUE = suspension. No way around it. Not doing it weakens tremendously anti-doping fight.

 

[Nellyspania]

Re:

I'm with KB on this one - it was quite clear they said it was a new drug for Yates.

Also I thought ventolin and salbutamol were the same?

They are indeed the same.

I personally cannot get my head around the 'we forgot to submit a TUE' line; in this day and age of scrutiny is that even feasible?

Is a TUE required for Salbutomol?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Taking a drug without a TUE is doping. You ask for a TUE, you make sure you got the TUE, and THEN you take the drug. If you don't do so, it is doping just as Epo or transfusion. Either we always go after the doctor, or we always go after the rider. Or even better, we go after both.

Well, yes and...... why start a 'new' first time drug in the middle of a one week race?

Would you not use it in training with your TUE to ensure no adverse effects?

The other worrying part, if it wasn't for the 'leak' this may have never seen the light of day, which tells us the CADF is far from the independent body the UCI claims it is.

EOM.

 

[fergilico]

Just to clarify salbutamol is the generic name for the drug and ventolin is the brand name. Terbutaline is a commonly prescribed drug for asthma even if not widely used by cyclists.

I do find it very odd that so many athletes have asthma. It seems too convenient.

 

[Eshnar]

Just to clarify salbutamol is the generic name for the drug and ventolin is the brand name. Terbutaline is a commonly prescribed drug for asthma even if not widely used by cyclists.

I do find it very odd that so many athletes have asthma. It seems too convenient.

it is not "odd", it is just a joke. A very old one.

EDIT: Welcome to the forum btw.

 

[Nellyspania]

Re: Re:

The rider is ultimately responsible, even if they delegate on the doctor.

This.

The rider needs to be suspended : Banned substance with no TUE = suspension. No way around it. Not doing it weakens tremendously anti-doping fight.

Harsh, but fair.
If I was a pro rider and had to take any medication at all, I would want to see proof that the relevant governing body have approved me to race...

 

[Irondan]

Just to clarify salbutamol is the generic name for the drug and ventolin is the brand name. Terbutaline is a commonly prescribed drug for asthma even if not widely used by cyclists.

I do find it very odd that so many athletes have asthma. It seems too convenient.

Also odd that the same rider afflicted with a lung condition could top 10 @ PN against the best riders in the world.

 

[luckyboy]

Re: Re:

I'm with KB on this one - it was quite clear they said it was a new drug for Yates.

Also I thought ventolin and salbutamol were the same?

They are indeed the same.

I personally cannot get my head around the 'we forgot to submit a TUE' line; in this day and age of scrutiny is that even feasible?

Is a TUE required for Salbutomol?

Not if you use less than 1600µg over 24hrs.

Reason that TUE is needed for terbutaline is because it's harder to differentiate between an oral or inhaled dose. Easier with salbutamol.

 

[Benotti69]

TUE not needed for Salbutamol/Ventolin.

Terbutaline required a TUE from 2010, WADA rule change and WADA guidelines require an explanation of use of Terbutaline rather than Salbutamol.

High doses of inhaled Terbutaline increases muscle strength and enhances maximal sprint performance in trained athletes.*

*source Department of Nutrition, Exercise and Sports Uni of Copenhagen

 

[vedrafjord]

Apologies for misleading anyone, I was looking at sites like http://www.rxlist.com/terbutaline-sulfate-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Brand names Brethine, Bricanyl, Brethaire are no longer available in the U.S

and http://www.medicinenet.com/terbutaline/index.htm

Terbutaline (Brethine, Bricanyl, and Brethaire are no longer available in the U.S.)

which does leave it possible that it's available as a generic or off-label or whatever. After more searching I found this NIH (the American National Institute of Health, so I'd consider it quite authoritative) link https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682144.html

This branded product is no longer on the market. Generic alternatives may be available.

Interestingly from the same link:

Terbutaline comes as a tablet to take by mouth. The tablets are usually taken three times a day, once every six hours.

The reason inhalers were invented was to get the drug directly to where it's needed, in the lungs, so the minimum dose can be used, avoiding side effects in other parts of the body. Now according to this link http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/top-20-generic-molecules-worldwide salbutamol is the 15th highest selling generic drug of any kind in the world. It's available by inhaler, to minimise side effects, and doesn't need a TUE. So why take a banned pill?

 

[footfruit]

Some Terbutaline cases

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/scotland/2292794/Scotland-lock-Scott-MacLeod-escapes-drugs-ban.html
2008: Scott MacLeod, Rugby player. Had a TUE for Salbutamol, but not for Terbutaline. Escaped ban

http://www.lawinsport.com/sports-law-news/item/kayak-athlete-suspended-for-the-presence-of-terbutaline
2014: Austin Denman, Kayak athlete. Suspended for 2 months.

https://swimswam.com/danish-swimmer-suspended-positive-test-winning-danish-open/
2013: Swimmer Frans Johannessen suspended for 3 months

https://swimswam.com/french-teenager-ferreira-warned-positive-doping-test/
2013: Swimmer Lisa Ferreira given a warning

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=10714
2015: Cyclist Vegard Robinson BUGGE tested positive for the use of Terbutaline on 29 May 2015 in the 3rd stage of the Tour des Fjords. He was suspended by the UCI for 4 months, until 28 October 2015.

http://www.voxy.co.nz/sport/5/247257
2015: Cyclist Mark Spessot suspended the specified substances, prednisone and terbutaline, after the Twizel to Timaru cycling race in September 2015.