Look at me, I am a Vegan! Can I persuade you to become one too?

[Tapeworm]

I concur Martin. Though if we use something like an IQ test then I would fall into the 98th centile of population. Now it is entirely possible that I could be in the 99th centile if I ate meat or maybe the 97th, it is only one data point, however its one who's place I am content with

However, as I said, should you wish to gain a larger sample size it IS there should researchers wish.

Whilst Michiel may have their mum as a GP my other half is a paedeatrician specializing in early-childhood development. There are aspects of diet which can affect development (iodine an omega-3 two name a couple). But these are not limited to people of a vegetarian diet.

Once again, I am always happy to be proven wrong.

 

[craig1985]

Harley, what is you're highest power output? Mine's somewhere between 450-500.

 

[Martin318is]

Once again, I am always happy to be proven wrong.

yep, as I hoped to make clear - I have no problem with what you are saying. Just poking a stick at one piece of your post.

There have been a few people on this thread - on all 5 sides of the conversation - who have fallen into the trap of the low data based generalisation. So I thought it worthwhile to highlight it. Wasn't trying to assume that you weren't aware of it yourself.

 

[Martin318is]

Harley, what is you're highest power output? Mine's somewhere between 450-500.

at what interval? Peak instantaneous? 5 second? 1minute? 5 minute? 20+?

 

[Rip:30]

Myth: ONLY vegans have b12 deficiencies. If you eat animal products you can NEVER have a problem with b12 EVER!


FACT: 39% of the US has borderline b12 levels. http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htm

WE'VE ALREADY GONE OVER THIS. Read the freaking study. You are twisting the narrative to suit your own sales pitch.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/71/2/514.short

This was the major finding according to the author.

"In contrast with previous reports, plasma vitamin B-12 concentrations were associated with vitamin B-12 intake. Use of supplements, fortified cereal, and milk appears to protect against lower concentrations. Further research is needed to investigate possible differences in bioavailability."

 

[Rip:30]

Pathetic and sad attempt to be a cult leader

How come the strongest animals on the planet, they never eat meat or suck breasts of other animal species? How come?

Elephant
Giraffe
Gorilla
Oxen
Hippo
Rhino

How come nobody else has any wattage data to boast about? I mean me being a vegan for 10 years SURELY means Im protein deficient and on the edge of collapse? How can I race and train with some of the fittest cyclists on the planet and without even a cup of coffee since 99?

But yeah, Im a crackpot eh?

My cheetah out sprints all of your veggie animals, my wolf has better endurance, and my spotted hyena has the strongest bite of any mammal at 800 kg/cm2 to crush the bones of its prey.

And boasting about wattage data? Give me break. Save it for the race. Do you make enough money to pay a monthly mortgage on a house from your racing? No, I didn't think so. Not a pro cyclist.

I'm glad you're healthy and fit, it's truly one of the most important aspects of living well. But it's like ya, we get the point already, you can be vegan and healthy (at least physically). It's also great you got your first girlfriend via your lifestyle. Ok nice abs, she's an 8, good job.

Your approach is so over the top because you suggest that we, the non-vegans, are all fat, about to die, nonathletic, 'scared', and don't have adventure in our lives.

I mean really? That's your position? You think that will persuade someone to try going vegan?

 

[Rip:30]

Harley, what is you're highest power output? Mine's somewhere between 450-500.

Craig must be a real sprintah.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Havin no meat dint hurt me none in tha head as a yung un.

You'll have quantify which aspect of being vegetarian effects brain development. There are quite a few million children raised on a vegetarian diet, I think if significant proportion of those were delayed it would have been well documented by now. I am happy to be corrected but I am at the very least an n=1 study that it has no such delay.

Hopefully in "medecin" you spell better when writing prescriptions.

pretty lame you've got to attack me on that as English isn't my native language, and I'll be happy to ask what substance in meat helps brain development

 

[craig1985]

at what interval? Peak instantaneous? 5 second? 1minute? 5 minute? 20+?

Craig must be a real sprintah.

Every 2 and a half minutes my power outputs were increased by 50 watts, the same with my vo2max.

 

[Rip:30]

Every 2 and a half minutes my power outputs were increased by 50 watts, the same with my vo2max.

ah the step test.

well how much do you weigh? gotta normalize for size.

 

[Tapeworm]

pretty lame you've got to attack me on that as English isn't my native language, and I'll be happy to ask what substance in meat helps brain development

Fair enough, as many native English speakers can't get it right either.

I don't question whether there are beneficial elements for brain development in meat, rather that they can be sourced elsewhere without issues.

 

[flyor64]

I think we can agree that literature can be found for both sides of the argument. For example I´ve just read an article about a famous MMA fighter who went vegan (or vegetarian hard to tell from his comments) and he lost a lot of weight, but he had no energy and was actually softer around his core (his words). He gave it a real go, but ended up going with a Med Diet and hasn´t felt as strong in years.

Frank Mir Vegan Diet experiment

My point is, to each his own. I think all diets, within reason, have merits. It´s the evangelical posts with unsubstantiated claims that chap my hide a bit

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Fair enough, as many native English speakers can't get it right either.

I don't question whether there are beneficial elements for brain development in meat, rather that they can be sourced elsewhere without issues.

it's cholesterol, important during adolescense...

 

[craig1985]

ah the step test.

well how much do you weigh? gotta normalize for size.

I'm 81kg now, but at the time of the test I was weighted 76kg (I'm also 188cm/6ft 2'').

 

[Captain Serious]

Have the balls to put down your artery clogging 'food' .

I thought everyone now knew that 'cholesterol theory' was b0llocks
http://healthyfixx.com/1/busting-the-myths-of-saturated-fat

" the African Masai, North American Eskimos, Japanese, Greeks, French, and nomads of Tibet, all consume diets extremely high in saturated fats from animal sources yet experience low rates of high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and heart disease. So let's take a look at the evidence to find out the truth"

It was even on Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184409,00.html

 

[lancaster]

how did i miss this thread?


i love a good argument.

(particularly if it involves people deliberately misinterpreting academic papers)


*ducks for cover*

although being serious for a moment academic, peer reviewed papers are a (possibly the most) important part of scientific study.

deliberately misinterpreting them (or worse falsifying the data when writing) is a crime against all that is good in the world.


now to read 45 pages of this thread.

 

[Martin318is]

Wow - you made that statement BEFORE reading the bulk of this thread?

Be prepared to walk away from the experience of reading this thing, feeling sad for humantiy and a little bit ill.

 

[Rip:30]

Harley, what is you're highest power output? Mine's somewhere between 450-500.

I'm 81kg now, but at the time of the test I was weighted 76kg (I'm also 188cm/6ft 2'').

Every 2 and a half minutes my power outputs were increased by 50 watts, the same with my vo2max.

Craig your "highest power output", even for 2.5 mins is way higher than 450 watts because you did that when you were already near your max. Do a 2.5 min max effort starting from a low hr after a good warm up--you'll be way higher.

Not sure what exactly that protocol is designed to identity... Were they monitoring blood lactate levels? O2 consumption?

You have to be careful when interpreting power test data.

 

[Tapeworm]

it's cholesterol, important during adolescense...

Found in eggs and dairy products, so usually not an issue for vegetarians.

 

[lancaster]

hey man, i think this is one of the best vids you've ever done, it's got everything in it, YOU!

I've been a raw vegan for three months now and I got to say its the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I used to be really unhappy and I thought that I had to listen to people and respect them, I was a regular guy and thought nothing of it. Now after changing my diet I've become a sanctimonious, condescending ***, my girlfriend is now really hot and regularly fellates me (she says I now taste of kiwifruit). I'm devastatingly attractive, more so than brad pit cos that ugly mother eats road kill, and I get to ride with pro cyclists who come to see me for training advice and to get my autograph.

lol, that gave me a giggle

 

[lancaster]

Only Dave Zabriskie is a full time vegan.

Cadel, Lance, Basso, Contador, Hamilton eat vegan when they want to cut weight. You know when guys like this are doing it and dont give an f about the animals/planet that there is something in it.

But that question is like someone having a bling madone 10 years ago and saying 'this is the bomb!' and someone saying 'how many pro riders ride a madone with carbon wheels and 11 speed mate? Your crazy!'

Does that make sense?

Einstein (vegetarian) said that the thinking that got us here today isnt the same thinking that will carry us to the future.

30 years ago people ate steak before a race. I was talking with Allan Pieper and Perry from HTC today and they said 'last night the guys ate steaks and fcuk knows how they can ride properly..'

Contador eats steak, he's got the receipt to prove it!

 

[lancaster]

#Rip Esselstyn is a vegan these days. Like Mike Tyson he used to not be. (Yep Mike Tyson is a vegan.)

Mike has been a joke for a while, and (although difficult) is possibly more mental than in the good old days (when he was one of the finest athletes in the world)

TBMOTP is no advert for veganism

is Audrey Harrison a vegan? that might explain some things

 

[craig1985]

I've worked it out. If Andy Schleck stopped visiting McDonald's in Paris as soon as the Tour ends, stopped treating the ATOC (with Scott Socal as the guide) and the Vuelta as a pub crawl, and ate vegan then he would win the Tour. Right?

 

[craig1985]

Queensland couple's banana diet a $20,000 bender

 

[flyor64]

Queensland couple's banana diet a $20,000 bender

Interesting close to the article.

I like Harley´s response about the million dollar home...it´s in keeping with the theme of this thread nicely.

Harley - your GF has a very creative name.