Martinelli on lance & johan

[Moose McKnuckles]

Good summary. Spot on. He's got a long road back.



Liquigas Rider: Can someone pass me my glasses?
Vino: Say please.
Liquigas Rider: How bout you give it too me before I transfuse your *** back to KazyLand... Idiots.. (reaches to get glasses)
Alberto: (flinches) ahh. watch my latte.. idiota

Yeh Martinelli needs to motivate that lot, ASAP!

Uh...ok.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Uh...ok.

i thought it was funny but does that say more about me or the actual joke itself?

 

[BikeCentric]

i thought it was funny but does that say more about me or the actual joke itself?

Well I thought it was funny too except for the "long road back" part. Astana has a good team and Martinelli is a good DS. They should do well "for make benefit of glorious nation of Kazakhstan."

 

[Anonymous]

Contador may be stronger mentally than Armstrong was in his heyday. That's frickin' scary. There is no question that Armstrong used to be the master of psychological warfare - he dominated Ulrich, Heras, and Belokki with it among others. But Contador is like an Aikido Master or something, blocking Armstrong's jabs and redirecting them right back at him.

Difficult to say. Contador had the luxury of knowing he was significantly better than Armstrong - last year at least - and had more recent experience at the top end of GTs, so it was not a level playing field. It would be interesting to see how Contador would cope if they were more evenly matched. The last time that happened in a grand tour was with Rasmussen in 2007 and Contador was the first to crack. In early season 09, whilst not at full form and thus more evenly matched with his rivals, he cracked at the Paris Nice - a race he was aiming to win. So whilst he was very impressive physically and mentally at the Tour this year, in order to show he is up with Armstrong in those terms he will have to repeat that a few more times. It's not certain as of yet.

 

[Zen Master]

Martinelli............ shut up your big mouth please. You only speak trash and to speak about Lance and Bruynell you have to ask permission.
I hope to "El pistoletero" wins the tour again, Alberto has all the class for do it again, before that....
KEEP YOUR DAMN BIG MOUTH CLOSE .
warm regards to Italia form México.

Sorry amigo but what exactly mental disorder do you have ?
For your information the same KEEP YOUR DAMN BIG MOUTH CLOSE Giuseppe Martinelli won the Giro d'Italia and Tour De France in the same year ( 1998 ) with Marco Pantani !

 

[Anonymous]

Contador knows he can beat Lance in any situation. I think to someone like Lance, that is an affront because he is the one who gets to think that way. Unfortunately for him, Contador isn't really being an *** about it. He just knows Armstrong cannot beat him, and no matter how much The Uniballer butts his head against Alberto, he will never win the contest. It obviously drives Armstrong crazy, and he feigns acceptance, but in reality, his ego is to fragile for him to cope with something like that. So he twitters and makes snide comments, and tries to beat his better in the only way he can. Contador's response is the same as it was before he was subjected to the adolescent psychological onslaught, "I will beat you." There is nothing Armstrong can do to change that. It is the beginning and end of the subject.

Yeah Armstrong really wants to win. He will try to grind out a win anyway he can, and has always looked at every detail of cycling - the team, the tactics, the psychological games. Contador, however, is a more natural bike rider and seems to just use his talent. He doesn't seem to have the same level of hunger as Armstrong. Though who has?

 

[Race Radio]

Yeah Armstrong really wants to win. He will try to grind out a win anyway he can, and has always looked at every detail of cycling - the team, the tactics, the psychological games. Contador, however, is a more natural bike rider and seems to just use his talent. He doesn't seem to have the same level of hunger as Armstrong. Though who has?

Dude, you need to find a new act. Repeating the same discredited Armstrong myth BS in the vain hope that somebody takes the bait will only result in your getting banned again for trolling.

You need to find a new schtick and the full *** one is getting boring.

 

[Anonymous]

Dude, you need to find a new act. Repeating the same discredited Armstrong myth BS in the vain hope that somebody takes the bait will only result in your getting banned again for trolling.

You need to find a new schtick and the full *** one is getting boring.

Eh?

What particular remark touched a nerve with you? Is there something you disagree with or are you just trolling?

 

[Publicus]

Difficult to say. Contador had the luxury of knowing he was significantly better than Armstrong - last year at least - and had more recent experience at the top end of GTs, so it was not a level playing field. It would be interesting to see how Contador would cope if they were more evenly matched. The last time that happened in a grand tour was with Rasmussen in 2007 and Contador was the first to crack. In early season 09, whilst not at full form and thus more evenly matched with his rivals, he cracked at the Paris Nice - a race he was aiming to win. So whilst he was very impressive physically and mentally at the Tour this year, in order to show he is up with Armstrong in those terms he will have to repeat that a few more times. It's not certain as of yet.

Very good points here Great White. Contador, along with Bruyneel and everyone else, had the luxury of knowing that Alberto was stronger than HWWNBN. The having more GT "recent" GT experience is a novel comment. HWWNBN has more GT experience. He is 38 and won the TdF 7 times. Not even AC can say that.

As for level playing field, there won't ever be one. HWWNBN tried to destabilize Alberto from within the team this year and failed. Now he's stripped him of all the talent around him and hope that is the answer. In either case, he's tacitly acknowledging that he is not Alberto's level either physically or mentally.

The problem with the tactic, at least from my perspective, the source of Alberto's mental strength is he is a realist at heart. He sees the situation for what it is (and not what he wants it to be) and adapts his training and preparation (both mentally and physically) accordingly. So I expect him to remind himself (as he has already started) that 2009 is meaningless as it comes to 2010. That he's going to have to be stronger in both departments to come out on top. That he's going to have to make his team stronger to succeed. So in essence, he sees it coming--a boxing analogy (if you can see the punch coming, you can roll with it and take the steam off of it; it's the ones you don't see that knock you out). I don't know if he can accomplish it--the deck is pretty well stacked against him with EVERYONE gunning for him and a weaker team. But I sure as hell am going to enjoy watching him try.

 

[Anonymous]

RR, still trying to work out what you meant. Are you saying you disagree with me that Armstrong puts more effort into psychological games and making sure his team work for him alone? Didn't think that was controversial. Indeed, it's what his critics say every day.

If you're going to disrupt a thread and throw around insults then you really should have a point to make. Otherwise it just looks like you're trying to bait people.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, here we go again. You guys are allowing Great White to get all amped up. Have fun doing the same thing that always happens with him for the next 10 pages. I am out.

 

[Anonymous]

Very good points here Great White. Contador, along with Bruyneel and everyone else, had the luxury of knowing that Alberto was stronger than HWWNBN. The having more GT "recent" GT experience is a novel comment. HWWNBN has more GT experience. He is 38 and won the TdF 7 times. Not even AC can say that.

Of course, but not recently. Armstrong was quite nervous this year from the beginning of the season, which I suppose is natural. You can't just throw yourself back into the top level of the GC after a four year break and expect to be as mentally prepared as someone who won two grand tours the previous season. So Contador will have known he had an advantage there.

As for level playing field, there won't ever be one. HWWNBN tried to destabilize Alberto from within the team this year and failed. Now he's stripped him of all the talent around him and hope that is the answer. In either case, he's tacitly acknowledging that he is not Alberto's level either physically or mentally.

As I say Alberto is yet to prove he is as mentally strong as Armstrong if they were more evenly matched. The current history doesn't support this - he has yet to prove he can psychologically face down anyone who is almost on his own level. As a rider he seems to like to use his natural talent on the road to do the talking, which of course has earnt him a lot of praise. That's the way many fans like to see it be done.

As for Armstrong stripping him of his team, I don't think that was the main motive for getting those guys to radio shack. Most of them were already associated with him so it was more a question of putting his old team back together. He would not have known that Contador would stay at Astana. But you're right that Armstrong does tend to think about these things, so I'm sure he will have seen that as an added bonus - the guy is just off the charts when it comes to competitiveness and will try to make any advantage he can on any level. He has a pretty obsessive personality, as ThoughtforFood has said.

 

[Publicus]

Of course, but not recently. Armstrong was quite nervous this year from the beginning of the season, which I suppose is natural. You can't just throw yourself back into the top level of the GC after a four year break and expect to be as mentally prepared as someone who won two grand tours the previous season. So Contador will have known he had an advantage there.



As I say Alberto is yet to prove he is as mentally strong as Armstrong if they were more evenly matched. The current history doesn't support this - he has yet to prove he can psychologically face down anyone who is almost on his own level. As a rider he seems to like to use his natural talent on the road to do the talking, which of course has earnt him a lot of praise. That's the way many fans like to see it be done.

As for Armstrong stripping him of his team, I don't think that was the main motive for getting those guys to radio shack. Most of them were already associated with him so it was more a question of putting his old team back together. He would not have known that Contador would stay at Astana. But you're right that Armstrong does tend to think about these things, so I'm sure he will have seen that as an added bonus - the guy is just off the charts when it comes to competitiveness and will try to make any advantage he can on any level. He has a pretty obsessive personality, as ThoughtforFood has said.

He has already proven that he is mentally and physically stronger than HWWNBN--there is nothing left to prove. And continues to do so as demonstrated in his comments that I posted above. HWWNBN doesn't have it in the legs or the head to beat him, and if Martinelli can marshall his team around AC (and barring injuries), RadioShack won't have enough to beat him (AC). I think Martinelli is off to a good start by coming to AC's defense here.

 

[Anonymous]

He has already proven that he is mentally and physically stronger than HWWNBN--there is nothing left to prove. And continues to do so as demonstrated in his comments that I posted above. HWWNBN doesn't have it in the legs or the head to beat him, and if Martinelli can marshall his team around AC (and barring injuries), RadioShack won't have enough to beat him (AC). I think Martinelli is off to a good start by coming to AC's defense here.

Thanks for the response.

I'm not sure who "HWWNBN" is? Probably some clever insult against Armstrong? Anyhow...I'm not saying Contador is not extremely mentally tough. He showed this year that he was very tough. But he did so from a very strong position performance wise - nobody was good enough to get close to him - and it's the first time he has shown this in the TdF. He did not show that in the Paris Nice - a race he was trying to win - nor against Rasmussen in the 07 TdF. If he wants to show he is as mentally tough as Armstrong was during his peak years, then he has to repeat that for several more years to come, and show he can do it when a rider gets closer to him. He very well may do this - the odds are that he will in my view - but he has to show it first. You can't just be branded the mentally toughest rider of all time on the basis of one dominant TdF victory.

 

[Publicus]

Thanks for the response.

I'm not sure who "HWWNBN" is? Probably some clever insult against Armstrong? Anyhow...I'm not saying Contador is not extremely mentally tough. He showed this year that he was very tough. But he did so from a very strong position, and it's the first time he has shown this in the TdF. He did not show that in the Paris Nice - a race he was trying to win - nor against Rasmussen in the 07 TdF. If he wants to show he is as mentally tough as Armstrong was during his years, then he he to repeat that for several more years to come, and show he can do it when a rider gets closer to him. He very well may do this - the odds are that he will in my view - but he has to show it first. You can't just be branded the mentally toughest rider of all time on the basis of one TdF victory.

Paris-Nice was a food bonk, not a mental issue. He proved his mental toughness by not quitting and attacking the peloton to regain some time. No quit in the guy.

As for 2007 TdF. Again not a lack of mental toughness. He tried to break Rasmussen. And in the process broke himself. It happens. Again nothing about mental toughness there.

He's bested HWWNBN on the same course, in the same team. He's besting him now in the offseason. I'm not sure who has declared him the greatest of all time (BikeCentric said he may be tougher mentally than Armstrong in his heyday, which is entirely possible). HWWNBN no longer can convince himself that he is the strongest mentally. He not only met his match, but has been bested. His face (eyes) during the interview after Verbier tells the story. His answer was to pick up his team and take it with him. Like a petulant child.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yeah Armstrong really wants to win. He will try to grind out a win anyway he can, and has always looked at every detail of cycling - the team, the tactics, the psychological games. Contador, however, is a more natural bike rider and seems to just use his talent. He doesn't seem to have the same level of hunger as Armstrong. Though who has?

 

[BYOP88]

He did not show that in the Paris Nice - a race he was trying to win .

But that also shows the difference between them, in his prime Armstrong only tried for 1 race a year just say with a little less luck in 03 Armstrong could've ended with nothing, Contador tries to win every race he rides.

You can't just be branded the mentally toughest rider of all time on the basis of one dominant TdF victory.

I doubt that Armstrong in his prime was the "mentally toughest" rider of all time not even close to the top 10.

 

[Anonymous]

He's bested HWWNBN on the same course, in the same team.

Still not going to explain what that means? Is it some special code?

He's besting him now in the offseason.

I don't see how you can make that judgement. You obviously dislike Armstrong (extremely!) so naturally will say that, but personally I don't think anyone is besting anyone at this stage.

My original point was, if Armstrong was physically closer to Contador - or anyone else was - then it would be interesting to see how Contador would handle the type of pressure that Armstrong uses. Alas we cannot know. I suspect it might be different.

I'm not sure who has declared him the greatest of all time (BikeCentric said he may be tougher mentally than Armstrong in his heyday, which is entirely possible). HWWNBN no longer can convince himself that he is the strongest mentally. He not only met his match, but has been bested. His face (eyes) during the interview after Verbier tells the story. His answer was to pick up his team and take it with him. Like a petulant child.

You really don't like the guy, do you. You forget that Armstrong is 38 and has spent four years out - he is likely past his best. For Contador, who was head and shoulders above everyone on pure form this year, it's not a great feet to allow Armstrong's tactics to bounce off him. Would he be able to do that if Armstrong were at his peak? Again, we don't know. The boy has to prove he won't be put off his game if someone can get close to him and starts the trash talk. He is yet to do this.

I don't think setting up your own team and staying in the sport shows a sign of petulance. I wasn't really looking deeply into Armstrong's eyes on the verbier, as many seem to have, but he'd obviously just blown up so obviously wasn't in the best shape. I thought he was quite graceful really. No bad mouthing or excuses, just a pledge to support AC. I don't know what more you could have wanted from the guy. He gave it his best shot.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you are an Armstrong fan? I tend to admire Armstrong too, but I will admit he tries every trick in the book to win. From running his team with an iron fist and putting the heat on anyone that leaves his circle to make an example of them, to making comments and statements in the press to unnerve opponents, or even sending all the team cars to the airport. Hell, he might even give a donation to the UCI if it helps. It doesn't necessarily make him a bad person - some athletes are just blinded by the desire to win at all costs. I don't think Contador is that type of athlete - he just does his talking on the road, and very impressive that is.

Just because we're fans of Armstrong doesn't mean we have to deny this, bud.

 

[Anonymous]

But that also shows the difference between them, in his prime Armstrong only tried for 1 race a year just say with a little less luck in 03 Armstrong could've ended with nothing, Contador tries to win every race he rides.

More to do with different preperation. AC does not try to win every race he is in. He did aim to win the Paris Nice, however.

I doubt that Armstrong in his prime was the "mentally toughest" rider of all time not even close to the top 10.

In the Tour, certainly he was.

 

[BYOP88]

More to do with different preperation. AC does not try to win every race he is in. He did aim to win the Paris Nice, however.

No I'll think you'll find after some research that Contador races to win.

In the Tour, certainly he was.

Maybe in 99-05 he was but all time in the TdF not even close bud, as for other races that take place, yeah there are more races than just the Tour, HWWNBN isn't in the top 100.

 

[Anonymous]

Valverde

No I'll think you'll find after some research that Contador races to win.

Yes, please do some research. There are plenty of races he enters that he doesn't try to win. Even at the Dauphiné Libéré before the Tour, he didn't try to attack and basically allowed Valverde to win it. It was all about building up to full form for the Tour.

It will be interesting to see how many races a year he takes part in or tries to win as he gets older.

Maybe in 99-05 he was but all time in the TdF not even close bud, as for other races that take place, yeah there are more races than just the Tour, HWWNBN isn't in the top 100.

That settles it then.

 

[Publicus]

Still not going to explain what that means? Is it some special code?



I don't see how you can make that judgement. You obviously dislike Armstrong (extremely!) so naturally will say that, but personally I don't think anyone is besting anyone at this stage.

My original point was, if Armstrong was physically closer to Contador - or anyone else was - then it would be interesting to see how Contador would handle the type of pressure that Armstrong uses. Alas we cannot know. I suspect it might be different.



You really don't like the guy, do you. You forget that Armstrong is 38 and has spent four years out - he is likely past his best. For Contador, who was head and shoulders above everyone on pure form this year, it's not a great feet to allow Armstrong's tactics to bounce off him. Would he be able to do that if Armstrong were at his peak? Again, we don't know. The boy has to prove he won't be put off his game if someone can get close to him and starts the trash talk. He is yet to do this.

I don't think setting up your own team and staying in the sport shows a sign of petulance. I wasn't really looking deeply into Armstrong's eyes on the verbier, as many seem to have, but he'd obviously just blown up so obviously wasn't in the best shape. I thought he was quite graceful really. No bad mouthing or excuses, just a pledge to support AC. I don't know what more you could have wanted from the guy. He gave it his best shot.

I make that judgment based on the opening salvo of the HWWNBN/JB build up for the TdF (epic battle). AC continues to demonstrate that HWWNBN and JB are grasping at straws. I would suggest you check the archives here at cyclingnews. I think they have most of HWWNBN's press conference and I posted AC's comments in this thread as well.

If HWWNBN wasn't in best form and 38, then perhaps he should have just kept his mouth shut and ridden in support of AC. Instead he made sure everyone knew he was there to win, though everyone knew (including Bruyneel) that AC was the strongest. He wrote a check his @ss couldn't cash. Pointing that out doesn't make me a hater.

It was clear that he had been crying before the interview at Verbier. And he wore the realization that he was no longer the man. And after that stage he did nothing to support AC, refused to attend the celebratory dinner and announced his new team on the eve of the Annecy TT. Then he spent the summer stripping Astana bare. I don't know what that's called in the country you are from, but it is called taking your ball and going home here in the states.

 

[Anonymous]

Remember Armstrong on the podium....

This guy really wants to win. He is as competitive as they come.

 

[BYOP88]

Remember Armstrong on the podium....

This guy really wants to win. He is as competitive as they come.

Yeah and there are others who really want to win the Tour, but wont cos they don't have the legs to do it. BTW does HWWNBN have a lazy eye?