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Martinelli on lance & johan

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Dr. Maserati

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Great White said:
Are you are an Armstrong fan? I tend to admire Armstrong too, but I will admit he tries every trick in the book to win. From running his team with an iron fist and putting the heat on anyone that leaves his circle to make an example of them, to making comments and statements in the press to unnerve opponents, or even sending all the team cars to the airport. Hell, he might even give a donation to the UCI if it helps. It doesn't necessarily make him a bad person - some athletes are just blinded by the desire to win at all costs. I don't think Contador is that type of athlete - he just does his talking on the road, and very impressive that is.

Just because we're fans of Armstrong doesn't mean we have to deny this, bud.

Since you admit you admire people who have to resort to bad mouthing, bullying and bribery to be a success as a cyclist- its easy to see why you prefer HWWNBN over AC.
 
Great White said:
Remember Armstrong on the podium....

contador_228742s.jpg


This guy really wants to win. He is as competitive as they come.

I'm sure he is, but he's not demonstrated that he has the skills to compete with the new generation. Time waits for no man. No, not even HWWNBN.
 
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Thoughtforfood said:
Contador knows he can beat Lance in any situation. I think to someone like Lance, that is an affront because he is the one who gets to think that way. Unfortunately for him, Contador isn't really being an *** about it. He just knows Armstrong cannot beat him, and no matter how much The Uniballer butts his head against Alberto, he will never win the contest. It obviously drives Armstrong crazy, and he feigns acceptance, but in reality, his ego is to fragile for him to cope with something like that. So he twitters and makes snide comments, and tries to beat his better in the only way he can. Contador's response is the same as it was before he was subjected to the adolescent psychological onslaught, "I will beat you." There is nothing Armstrong can do to change that. It is the beginning and end of the subject.

good one , i couldnt agree more....
 
Thoughtforfood said:
Contador knows he can beat Lance in any situation. I think to someone like Lance, that is an affront because he is the one who gets to think that way. Unfortunately for him, Contador isn't really being an *** about it. He just knows Armstrong cannot beat him, and no matter how much The Uniballer butts his head against Alberto, he will never win the contest. It obviously drives Armstrong crazy, and he feigns acceptance, but in reality, his ego is to fragile for him to cope with something like that. So he twitters and makes snide comments, and tries to beat his better in the only way he can. Contador's response is the same as it was before he was subjected to the adolescent psychological onslaught, "I will beat you." There is nothing Armstrong can do to change that. It is the beginning and end of the subject.

That pretty much says it all. Contador grabbed the reins of leadership from Armstrong on Arcalis and the whole world watched. It was a pivotal moment, since from that point on, Lance was left to whine incessantly while Contador went about the business of solidifying his lead. It was somewhat disappointing to see a seven-time TdF champion resort to such immature behavior, but it's a testament to the damage Contador did to Armstrong psyche.
 
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Agreed on all of the above except perhaps for the 'disappointment' at his childish behaviour - let's face it, Armstrong has a history of childish behaviour: 'the Look', 'Ullrich didn't wait for me!', the Simeoni incident - the list is probably endless. As for Bruyneel - wheelsucker. Nuff said.
 
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Publicus said:
I make that judgment based on the opening salvo of the HWWNBN/JB build up for the TdF (epic battle). AC continues to demonstrate that HWWNBN and JB are grasping at straws. I would suggest you check the archives here at cyclingnews. I think they have most of HWWNBN's press conference and I posted AC's comments in this thread as well.

Maybe your dislike for Armstrong is leading you to see things that are not there. It's been pretty tame stuff. Not much to report.

If HWWNBN wasn't in best form and 38, then perhaps he should have just kept his mouth shut and ridden in support of AC. Instead he made sure everyone knew he was there to win, though everyone knew (including Bruyneel) that AC was the strongest. He wrote a check his @ss couldn't cash. Pointing that out doesn't make me a hater.

I don't think I've called you a hater, but you are quite open about completely despising Armstrong aren't you? You call him "HWWNBN". If you don't like the hater term then maybe you should work on your style a bit. It's not coming across very well - it's completely one-sided and mean-spirited. You couldn't say that about me in relation to Contador.

It was clear that he had been crying before the interview at Verbier.

Um, why was that clear? Armstrong is very competitive and will of course not liked to have been out of the GC top spot for this year's tour after all the work he put in, but I saw no evidence of any crying. When a rider struggles you always see every bit of pain and fatigue in their face after the stage. If they do well then it washes away like magic. I thought he couldn't have handled, what he knew would likely be on the cards, any better. Like many others, it raised my opinion of him.

And after that stage he did nothing to support AC, refused to attend the celebratory dinner and announced his new team on the eve of the Annecy TT.

But he did domestique for him on several stages, so he did support him on the road. Though admittedly he's not the type who was ever going to suck up to the youngster for beating him. Not in his DNA.

Then he spent the summer stripping Astana bare. I don't know what that's called in the country you are from, but it is called taking your ball and going home here in the states.

But Armstrong didn't have a contract for another year with Astana, and the team was full of his old team mates, DS and management crew. I don't see what would have been the point of not working with these people, or how he knew Contador was going to stay at Astana. It's actually very brave of him to stay on for another year - you can't accuse the older fighter of ducking out. Good on him.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Since you admit you admire people who have to resort to bad mouthing, bullying and bribery to be a success as a cyclist- its easy to see why you prefer HWWNBN over AC.

Well I do respect and like Contador - he could be the most naturally talented Tour rider in the history of the sport - but it's just unfortunate that he is being used by people to spread propaganda against LA. I admire lots of different types of riders for different reasons.

It's only sport at the end of the day. I think some of the guys here get a little carried away with the demonisation and character assassination. To me that is dishonourable. There are many different ways of looking at it.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Great White said:
Well I do respect and like Contador - he could be the most naturally talented Tour rider in the history of the sport - but it's just unfortunate that he is being used by people to spread propaganda against LA. I admire lots of different types of riders for different reasons.

It's only sport at the end of the day. I think some of the guys here get a little carried away with the demonisation and character assassination. To me that is dishonourable. There are many different ways of looking at it.
What 'propaganda' did Contador use against LA?

And you think it is 'dishonourable' to merely highlight LA's character.......... honour amongst thieves, eh.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
What 'propaganda' did Contador use against LA?

Not what I meant. People on here use AC.

And you think it is 'dishonourable' to merely highlight LA's character.......... honour amongst thieves, eh.

To put a relentlessly negative spin on it, yes. Top people in sport are often very determined characters who have an ability to get everybody around them working to support them. Not always be any means, but it's not unusual. We shouldn't *** our pants about it. Armstrong has achieved a great deal in the sport, and for people outside it, and does deserve a little more respect than he often gets.
 
Great White said:
Not what I meant. People on here use AC.



To put a relentlessly negative spin on it, yes. Top people in sport are often very determined characters who have an ability to get everybody around them working to support them. Not always be any means, but it's not unusual. We shouldn't *** our pants about it. Armstrong has achieved a great deal in the sport, and for people outside it, and does deserve a little more respect than he often gets.

Use AC? Why? People seeking to present the facts about Armstrong have nothing to gain. In fact, it's the remoras surrounding Armstrong that stand to gain.

Armstrong gets plenty of respect and money. There is no doubt that his 7 Tour wins constitute an epic achievement, but the manner if which he accomplished them leaves much to be desired.
 
Great White said:
Maybe your dislike for Armstrong is leading you to see things that are not there. It's been pretty tame stuff. Not much to report.



I don't think I've called you a hater, but you are quite open about completely despising Armstrong aren't you? You call him "HWWNBN". If you don't like the hater term then maybe you should work on your style a bit. It's not coming across very well - it's completely one-sided and mean-spirited. You couldn't say that about me in relation to Contador.



Um, why was that clear? Armstrong is very competitive and will of course not liked to have been out of the GC top spot for this year's tour after all the work he put in, but I saw no evidence of any crying. When a rider struggles you always see every bit of pain and fatigue in their face after the stage. If they do well then it washes away like magic. I thought he couldn't have handled, what he knew would likely be on the cards, any better. Like many others, it raised my opinion of him.



But he did domestique for him on several stages, so he did support him on the road. Though admittedly he's not the type who was ever going to suck up to the youngster for beating him. Not in his DNA.



But Armstrong didn't have a contract for another year with Astana, and the team was full of his old team mates, DS and management crew. I don't see what would have been the point of not working with these people, or how he knew Contador was going to stay at Astana. It's actually very brave of him to stay on for another year - you can't accuse the older fighter of ducking out. Good on him.

(1) Whether or not I like a person does not alter my reading comprehension skills.

(2) You've attempted in your previous responses to me and in this post to suggest that my comments/analysis is driven by my dislike of HWWNBN. That I hate him. That's not the case. No longer a fan, but I don't know the man beyond his public persona. I think he's a bit of a pr1ck but that's not hate. And HWWNBN is just my personal fun. It seems to get your knickers in a bit of a bunch.

(3) Red eyes and dour look on his face. It looked very much like he had been crying.

(4) He didn't. Perhaps you watched a different TdF than I.

(5) Again, took his team and went home. You can try and pretty it up, but that's what it amounts to.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Great White said:
Not what I meant. People on here use AC.



To put a relentlessly negative spin on it, yes. Top people in sport are often very determined characters who have an ability to get everybody around them working to support them. Not always be any means, but it's not unusual. We shouldn't *** our pants about it. Armstrong has achieved a great deal in the sport, and for people outside it, and does deserve a little more respect than he often gets.

O, I am sorry if you filled your pants because you viewed my honest observations as negatives - as you say its only sport.
 
Great White said:
Not what I meant. People on here use AC.



To put a relentlessly negative spin on it, yes. Top people in sport are often very determined characters who have an ability to get everybody around them working to support them. Not always be any means, but it's not unusual. We shouldn't *** our pants about it. Armstrong has achieved a great deal in the sport, and for people outside it, and does deserve a little more respect than he often gets.

Trouble is it doesn't require any "spin" for Lance's behavior to come across as pretty negative. People here just comment on it, they don't invent it.
 
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Great White said:
Armstrong has achieved a great deal in the sport, and for people outside it, and does deserve a little more respect than he often gets.

+100

People seem to hate winner, and want to toss out all the good with the little bits of bad. I'm not sure why people get so bent out of shape about certain sports personalities ... most pro athletes are just trying to make money for themselves and their sponsors, etc. Lance happens to also focus attention to cancer awareness and brings a lot of $$ to cycling.
 

Polish

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Martineli as a Tactical Genius

Mr Martinelli has won 4 Grand Tours. I remember watching/following them all.
They were exciting, close, and packed with Mr Martinelli's Tactical Geniusness.
Seriously!

Do you think, during Astana Training Camp, Mr Martineli will have
the riders practice the "Hotel Window Jump" drill? Just kidding just kidding.

Next year's GT Battles between Martinelli & Bruyneel Should be EPIC!

Martinelli 4 GT wins...

1998 Tour de France:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Tour_de_France

2000 Giro d'Italia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Giro_d'Italia

2003 Giro d'Italia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Giro_d'Italia

2004 Giro d'Italia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Giro_d'Italia
 
Hombre El Asso said:
+100

People seem to hate winner, and want to toss out all the good with the little bits of bad. I'm not sure why people get so bent out of shape about certain sports personalities ... most pro athletes are just trying to make money for themselves and their sponsors, etc. Lance happens to also focus attention to cancer awareness and brings a lot of $$ to cycling.

Do you see anyone here denying that Lance has significant accomplishments?
No. That's not the point of this discussion. So, focus, grasshopper.
 
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To try to say Lance worked as a domestique for Contador is stretching the bounds of reality and puts a big ? in regards to your credibility.
Yes he's won 7 TDF's and is a great bike racer. That does not the change the fact that he acted like an asshat last year.
 

Polish

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dolophonic said:
To try to say Lance worked as a domestique for Contador is stretching the bounds of reality and puts a big ? in regards to your credibility.
Yes he's won 7 TDF's and is a great bike racer. That does not the change the fact that he acted like an asshat last year.

dolo, that was not "an act". It was the real thing.
Lance is acting when he tries to be nice guy:)
 
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Johan's gonna ...

... Kick Martinelli's butt right across France.

Shack attack :cool:
 
Great White said:
Well I do respect and like Contador - he could be the most naturally talented Tour rider in the history of the sport - but it's just unfortunate that he is being used by people to spread propaganda against LA. I admire lots of different types of riders for different reasons.

I don't think it's so much that AC is being used to badmouth LA, more to the point the 2009 Tour threw the two racers together and the world was able to see clearly how both handled the situation. It appears that once the tour started and ended we cycling fans had just a little to discuss about LA in relation to AC in relation to the Tour and beyond. Before 09 there was not much for anyone to say about either of them in connection with each other.
 
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Polish said:
.
Do you think, during Astana Training Camp, Mr Martineli will have
the riders practice the "Hotel Window Jump" drill? Just kidding just kidding.

Yeah it's always good to practice window drills, when you're in unfamiliar surroundings, that way no one gets hurt should you actually need to do it. :D

I'm guessing the Shack dreamteam are already practicing their "pouring liquid down the toilet" drills, just incase any rider is not giving 100% for the "team" in July. :D
 
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BikeCentric said:
Well I thought it was funny too except for the "long road back" part. Astana has a good team and Martinelli is a good DS. They should do well "for make benefit of glorious nation of Kazakhstan." :D

About 5 pages to late, but just to clarify, when I said "he has a long road back" I meant Martinelli has a long way to go before Astana becomes a strong unified team. I was not denying his ability as a DS, but as it stands, Astana have lost 10 or so riders, in an ugly way, and then are trying to rebuild.

They are essentially a new team assembling riders from all over, and after 3-4 days of training camp, surely they are not a strong mental team, yet. It takes a season of racing for that transition. So Martinelli has a long road back to getting Astana to be the strongest team in the world again.

I was just kidding around with the photos. I looked at Vino, and he clearly looked like he could of passed the rider his sunglasses ;)