Mens Journal article

[CycloErgoSum]

SSDD SSDD SSDD SSDD
Yawn. Nothing new here for the cycling fan. Same old stuff.

Not that the stuff is not true. It is true.
But the general non-cycling public does not care terribly.

That public will NOT grab torches and join the haters in the Witch Hunt.

Mens Journal, WSJ, NYTimes, USA Today.
Lots and lots of articles. Every week a new one.
But never any traction.
The truth is out there - but who cares?
Where is the outrage?

And if there is an indictment - watch out for the Back Lash.
"Who cares if he doped" will be the rallying call.
Will knock the anti-doping gang off their feet.
Will disappoint and anger the haters to no end.

Why?
Because "The Fight for Clean Sports" is nowhere near as important as the Fight Against Cancer.

No Telethons or Fundraisers or Foundations for "Clean Sports"

Really, some of you guys need to spend some quiet time in the Total Perspective Vortex. Have some sense of proportion.

Yes, I think someone has been spending time in a vortex. What's it like on the event horizon this time of year?

You are given to splitting the world into Manichaen opposites: witch hunters vs defenders of the faith. Joe Public is just gonna think "oh, that big cheater guy" when they hear Lance Armstrong in the future. It's that kind of casual perspective that will kill off his legacy. No big emotions, just dominant perspectives.

 

[thehog]

I don't think that's the way it went down. My understanding was that there was nothing in the contract with regards to doping or cheating. The only thing that mattered was if he was awarded the win by ASO, which he was.

Will they revoke the win now, if it is proven that he doped? Doubtful. Although not as bad as the late '90s when the entire peloton was doping, I think at least the top twenty were doping. So who in the heck would they give the win to? I don't think they have any choice but to give it to Lance, but just put an asterisk by his name.

What do you think they should do? Who do you think was riding clean when Lance won?

Actually now that I think about it, if ASO had any balls, they would nullify the results for every single year when a doper won. But they already had a precedent when Riis admitted doping. First they retracted his win, and then they gave it back. Not a good precedent.

What are you talking about? Yes the case was settled with point that there was nothing in regards to doping. But there was a hell lot of clauses in the contract about deception and misleading the insurance company. Once the Feds conclude their findings SCA will be looking to get back their 7.5million and some. You can't and mislead at arbitration. Its law. SCA decision to settle and the way their case was handled was based on the testimonies presented. If its found those statements were false then SCA have the right for compensation. They were mislead in open court. You cannot do that. Its breaking the law. I'm sorry but its not acceptable to lie.

 

[ricara]

What are you talking about? Yes the case was settled with point that there was nothing in regards to doping. But there was a hell lot of clauses in the contract about deception and misleading the insurance company. Once the Feds conclude their findings SCA will be looking to get back their 7.5million and some. You can't and mislead at arbitration. Its law. SCA decision to settle and the way their case was handled was based on the testimonies presented. If its found those statements were false then SCA have the right for compensation. They were mislead in open court. You cannot do that. Its breaking the law. I'm sorry but its not acceptable to lie.

Maybe. But it's also possible that nothing will change with regards to SCA. I still think that ASO will probably let Lance's victories stand. Therefore he still will have won the prize from SCA. I can't see that changing unless ASO pulls the victories from Lance. Do you think they will do that? I don't.

I think Lance may end up in jail for lying to the Grand Jury. I think he will lose millions in endorsements. I think his foundation will be worthless. But I can't see him giving that money back to SCA. But I'm not a lawyer and could certainly be wrong.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

What are you talking about? Yes the case was settled with point that there was nothing in regards to doping. But there was a hell lot of clauses in the contract about deception and misleading the insurance company. Once the Feds conclude their findings SCA will be looking to get back their 7.5million and some. You can't and mislead at arbitration. Its law. SCA decision to settle and the way their case was handled was based on the testimonies presented. If its found those statements were false then SCA have the right for compensation. They were mislead in open court. You cannot do that. Its breaking the law. I'm sorry but its not acceptable to lie.

You're right, SCA and others will come after him. His testimony at that arbitration will also have a bearing on the perjury charges that will probably come, so it will be more than just losing money he'll be looking at.

Ricara does have a point with the asterisk next to his name on the Tour roll if they decide not to award the races to others.

 

[ricara]

But there was a hell lot of clauses in the contract about deception and misleading the insurance company.

A follow-up on your post.

My understanding was that the judge didn't care at all about Andreu's testimony about doping. The key point was whether he won the TdF 7 times. Lance did not deceive nor mislead the insurance company about that. He did win the TdF 7 times. That's all the judge cared about.

That was another case where Lance deceived the public. Lance was glad that they brought the whole doping thing into it, because he knew that it wasn't relevant to the case. But then after he won, he could tell the world, "Hey it was proven that I was clean in a court of law!" but all that was proven was that he won the TdF 7 times.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

I imagine your point being that money is the root of all evils?

No, I don't think he was looking for the root of all evil, just presenting a litany of evils that he surmises have been perpetrated all of which are grossly unethical if not outright illegal.

 

[thehog]

A follow-up on your post.

My understanding was that the judge didn't care at all about Andreu's testimony about doping. The key point was whether he won the TdF 7 times. Lance did not deceive nor mislead the insurance company about that. He did win the TdF 7 times. That's all the judge cared about.

That was another case where Lance deceived the public. Lance was glad that they brought the whole doping thing into it, because he knew that it wasn't relevant to the case. But then after he won, he could tell the world, "Hey it was proven that I was clean in a court of law!" but all that was proven was that he won the TdF 7 times.

No that's not what happened. The judge did not rule on the case. A deal was struck mid trial with SCA agreeing to pay the 7.5m. They made this settlement decision based on the information presented. The contract had no clauses in regards to doping and if those victories were obtained by doping it wouldn't have mattered all Lance had to do is win the Tour. However the contract was signed in good faith with clauses that Armstrong would open and honest on all aspects of his victories with the insurer. They wouldn't have taken him on if they knew he was taking risks with doping products. They also wouldn't have signed the contract knowing that he bribed sports officials do he wasn't banned and could win his 3rd Tour. Lastly the SCA were mislead. Their decision to payout was based on false information. They may well not have settled if they knew the witnesses called had been pressured by Armstrong and Armstrong himself was lying. Again. You can't lie in open court. Its law. And you cannot mislead at arbitration. That's much worse than doping.

 

[Berzin]

A follow-up on your post.

My understanding was that the judge didn't care at all about Andreu's testimony about doping. The key point was whether he won the TdF 7 times. Lance did not deceive nor mislead the insurance company about that. He did win the TdF 7 times. That's all the judge cared about.

That was another case where Lance deceived the public. Lance was glad that they brought the whole doping thing into it, because he knew that it wasn't relevant to the case. But then after he won, he could tell the world, "Hey it was proven that I was clean in a court of law!" but all that was proven was that he won the TdF 7 times.

No, you're wrong. The very reason CSA went to trial was they didn't want to pay because of the doping allegations. That was the crux of their complaint.

If it was a matter of him either simply winning or losing, if that was the only question in question, they would not have fought it in court.

The manner in which he won had everything to do with the case. You bet that CSA is closely monitoring the turn of events, because they are going to want their money back for having to pay out for a Tour won by fraudulent means and all the lying that went on when the matter went to court.

 

[flicker]

Fred's new job title: Mitigation and revisionism consultant. Area of speciality: Apologisms.

Move on? Real Hallmark sentiment, that. Lance will get his groove back after he does some time and loses massive face.

Martha Stewart is still doing her thing on TV. Everyday, she moved on.
Her daughter and her girlfriend has a show and makes fun of her Mom's old shows. I think they are all sweet. I have no issue with Martha or Lance.

 

[Polish]

I wish I could sing this song for the forum while you read this story.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sentjens-confesses-epo-use-and-retires

Tradition; From Fiddler on the Roof. One of my favorite musicals.

Or how about "If I were a rich man"?
One of my favorite musicals too. Especially with Zero singing!

And West Side Story.
"When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way.
From your first cigarette till your last dying day"
Big time omerta.

Were you lucky enough to catch "Wicked" at the Curran Theatre up in the city before it closed its run? Wow, entertaining show! Spoiler Alert - Turned out the Wicked Witch was not so evil after all....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpmcVEvvZFM
.
.
,

 

[Señor_Contador]

Methinks Lance is toast.

Once Da Law sinks their teeth in you... it's like a white shark, it ain't lettin' go!

And it's not like the prosecutor can just say "ok Lance, we're sorry. We made a mistake." The problem is that these lawmen have to come up with some dirt or else. They will spend hundreds of millions to get you to confess. Look at Kenneth Starr: Dude spent half a billion dollars to get Billy-C to say "Yes, that is my semen stain on that shirt. I just don't know how it got there".

Although I do not know much about all things law... I do know that if Da Law wants to go after you, by the time the make it public... they probably had you under surveillance for a few weeks/months.

So if Lance used a phone, any phone other than public pay phones (and I use the plural because nowadays you can't just stick to one pay phone, you have to use different pay phones every time you call), to convince people to not tell the truth... he's toast. They got him grilled.

 

[flicker]

No, I don't think he was looking for the root of all evil, just presenting a litany of evils that he surmises have been perpetrated all of which are grossly unethical if not outright illegal.

Please do not speak of my past 3 presidents (USA)that way. That my friend is un-patriotic!

 

[flicker]

Methinks Lance is toast.

Once Da Law sinks their teeth in you... it's like a white shark, it ain't lettin' go!

And it's not like the prosecutor can just say "ok Lance, we're sorry. We made a mistake." The problem is that these lawmen have to come up with some dirt or else. They will spend hundreds of millions to get you to confess. Look at Kenneth Starr: Dude spent half a billion dollars to get Billy-C to say "Yes, that is my semen stain on that shirt. I just don't know how it got there".

Although I do not know much about all things law... I do know that if Da Law wants to go after you, by the time the make it public... they probably had you under surveillance for a few weeks/months.

So if Lance used a phone, any phone other than public pay phones (and I use the plural because nowadays you can't just stick to one pay phone, you have to use different pay phones every time you call), to convince people to not tell the truth... he's toast. They got him grilled.

Wait, Lance has a scrambler on his phone like Tony Montana in scarface. He has a double walk out of his house so the copters hovering over lances' crib like in the good fellas follow the double....

 

[Señor_Contador]

Wait, Lance has a scrambler on his phone like Tony Montana in scarface. He has a double walk out of his house so the copters hovering over lances' crib like in the good fellas follow the double....

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:n-wR_Rhc9i5hYM:http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n269/arron_06/***-please.jpg&t=1

 

[Señor_Contador]

Wait, Lance has a scrambler on his phone like Tony Montana in scarface. He has a double walk out of his house so the copters hovering over lances' crib like in the good fellas follow the double....

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Please do not speak of my past 3 presidents (USA)that way. That my friend is un-patriotic!

And now the ignore button again.

 

[flicker]

Yes, I know, you are a troll. I should ignore you, but I'm thinking you are like not out of high school yet, totally unsociable, at pains to find a girl friend who will put up with you for more than one date AND you will somehow get through college and then go back and read all of these posts you have been trolling with and go, 'Man, I was weird'. And you will be right. That is my sympathetic and generous analysis. If you are already an adult, you are beyond hope. And now the ignore button again.

Wrong on all counts Shawn. I am letting the people who are so infatuated with Armstrong know what time it is. It is an illness that is incurable. Lance is a cartoon fellow forumites like Schwatz******, Stalone, Chuck Norris, the Teletubbies. Also that cartoon; the idiot savant :some refer to as W. Except W wasn't so stupid, he played the world as a fool.
I am sorry to waste mine/your time. Any ignoramous can see what Lance was doing. I liked and still like Lance as the cartoon he is.

 

[TexPat]

Wrong on all counts Shawn. I am letting the people who are so infatuated with Armstrong know what time it is. It is an illness that is incurable. Lance is a cartoon fellow forumites like Schwatz******, Stalone, Chuck Norris, the Teletubbies. Also that cartoon; the idiot savant :some refer to as W. Except W wasn't so stupid, he played the world as a fool.
I am sorry to waste mine/your time. Any ignoramous can see what Lance was doing. I liked and still like Lance as the cartoon he is.

Man, the drugs in Pacific Grove must be reeeaaalllllly good.

 

[Benotti69]

wow Flicky and UniballPolisher are sure giving Pubic Stratalies their money's worth on this one.....the shifts are getting longer at the pile of shít grows higher.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Wrong on all counts Shawn. I am letting the people who are so infatuated with Armstrong know what time it is. It is an illness that is incurable. Lance is a cartoon fellow forumites like Schwatz******, Stalone, Chuck Norris, the Teletubbies. Also that cartoon; the idiot savant :some refer to as W. Except W wasn't so stupid, he played the world as a fool.
I am sorry to waste mine/your time. Any ignoramous can see what Lance was doing. I liked and still like Lance as the cartoon he is.

Of course the Teletubbies - now we know who Laa Laa was based on.....

I presume Tipsy Winky, Dipsy & Po is the name of his legal team

 

[Neworld]

I think the reason that many here are POed are because they/we bought into a lie. Mistakes happen: like life, ,.

Flicker,

Just stop. You use words like "mistake" to explain how a menace like Lance Lied, cheated, doped...its all been said before.

As for Cancer awareness, yes we should all be aware of Cancer. Who isn't, its so tacit. Non-LA citizens are upset because undoubtedly they would have rather given their time, money and support to a 'worthy' foundation.

PS: I never bought into Lance. When he was beating riders superior to him, and acted like an A$$hole, I would cheer on every rider but him.

NW

 

[Polish]

Joe Public is just gonna think "oh, that big cheater guy" when they hear Lance Armstrong in the future. It's that kind of casual perspective that will kill off his legacy. No big emotions, just dominant perspectives.

So, some Joe Public dudes are going to think of Lance as "that big cheater guy".

Ouch. Thats going to hurt. Ouch again.

Well, at least it will be easy to spot the mis-informed and un-informed cycling "fans" in the future lol. They will know about as much as a hater.

PS: I never bought into Lance. When he was beating riders superior to him, and acted like an A$$hole, I would cheer on every rider but him.

NW

Seriously?

C'mon, which riders were the ones that were superior to Lance?
Superior and Clean?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm back. The article is great. Suck it!

 

[Neworld]

Seriously?

C'mon, which riders were the ones that were superior to Lance?
Superior and Clean?

Well we know of Lance's VO2Max, his average physique...you know the data, don't ask. And yes they all doped, but Lance brought a gun to a knife fight.

Take away Lance's gun and I will provide you with a long, long list Polish.

NW

 

[bobs nob]

I'm back. The article is great. Suck it!

Welcome back. I never knew you were so fundamentally important until a 500 post thread about you blew up.

Sometimes I can't stand you. Sometimes you're right on the money. Sometimes you are very funny. Sometimes you just try and fail.

But the forum seems to love you, so you can add another name to the list of those who love you. Your Mom now has company.