More lame Russia bashing

[TMobile41]

More lame Russia bashing? Lilly King yesterday , with Washington Post, NY Times, as cheerleaders. "I know i won it clean" ...This girl is very Armstrong-esque herself. And looking at the medal count in swimming, for the US, obviously it is inconceivable that there is a state -sponsored doping programme in swimming right

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

More lame Russia bashing? Lilly King yesterday , with Washington Post, NY Times, as cheerleaders. "I know i won it clean" ...This girl is very Armstrong-esque herself. And looking at the medal count in swimming, for the US, obviously it is inconceivable that there is a state -sponsored doping programme in swimming right

Just wait until we get the "I was tested over 500 times, not one positive.."

 

[RedheadDane]

Dunno if this is the right thread, but I figured I'd better post it here than in the official race thread due to the clinicey stuff.

I'm pretty glad Armstrong claimed the win in the ITT. Normally I believe that if you've had your ban, then you should be able to ride again with no issue. However, this time around, with all the miss-mass around the Russians and Zabalinskaya (is that how it's spelled?) only being cleared to race so late her winning the Olympics would've been too much of a mess.

 

[jens_attacks]

she's figthing the good fight.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Dunno if this is the right thread, but I figured I'd better post it here than in the official race thread due to the clinicey stuff.

I'm pretty glad Armstrong claimed the win in the ITT. Normally I believe that if you've had your ban, then you should be able to ride again with no issue. However, this time around, with all the miss-mass around the Russians and Zabalinskaya (is that how it's spelled?) only being cleared to race so late her winning the Olympics would've been too much of a mess.

Why pick one doper over another?

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Dunno if this is the right thread, but I figured I'd better post it here than in the official race thread due to the clinicey stuff.

I'm pretty glad Armstrong claimed the win in the ITT. Normally I believe that if you've had your ban, then you should be able to ride again with no issue. However, this time around, with all the miss-mass around the Russians and Zabalinskaya (is that how it's spelled?) only being cleared to race so late her winning the Olympics would've been too much of a mess.

Why pick one doper over another?

If you're going to assume both are doping (not too much of a stretch, to be fair) an you think doping is bad, you would less obvious doper. Because, regardless of the ultimate morality of doping per se, the perception that you need to dope to win encourages more doping. And that's what you wouldn't want.

But if you think hypocrisy is the ultimate evil, then sure, I could see why you would go for the less obvious doper. Particularly if you think hypocrisy is easier to bring down (and therefore a more effective use of your time) than doping, that's where your efforts should lie.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Dunno if this is the right thread, but I figured I'd better post it here than in the official race thread due to the clinicey stuff.

I'm pretty glad Armstrong claimed the win in the ITT. Normally I believe that if you've had your ban, then you should be able to ride again with no issue. However, this time around, with all the miss-mass around the Russians and Zabalinskaya (is that how it's spelled?) only being cleared to race so late her winning the Olympics would've been too much of a mess.

Why pick one doper over another?

If you're going to assume both are doping (not too much of a stretch, to be fair) an you think doping is bad, you would less obvious doper. Because, regardless of the ultimate morality of doping per se, the perception that you need to dope to win encourages more doping. And that's what you wouldn't want.

But if you think hypocrisy is the ultimate evil, then sure, I could see why you would go for the less obvious doper. Particularly if you think hypocrisy is easier to bring down (and therefore a more effective use of your time) than doping, that's where your efforts should lie.

I don't see any difference between Zabalinskaya and Armstrong.

I am not trying to bring anyone down. I am posting in an echo chamber to 12 guys who can see the sport for what it is.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

I don't see any difference between Zabalinskaya and Armstrong.

I am not trying to bring anyone down. I am posting in an echo chamber to 12 guys who can see the sport for what it is.

I saw you as someone who was actively trying to argue against hypocrisy, not just an echo in a chamber. In any case, since you identify yourself as sitting in such a chamber, you must surely see how the athlete with the positive doping test is seen outside said chamber as the cleaner one, whatever your answer to the next question may be.

Which brings me too the following. I would think that the fact that Zabelinskaya has tested positive would point to a greater than 99% probability that she has doped, as far as it's defined by WADA. If you were forced to bet your life on one of those two having doped, would you not bet on Zabelinskaya?

 

[gooner]

RIO DE JANEIRO — Late in 1983, months before they announced a boycott of the Los Angeles Olympics, sports officials of the Soviet Union sent detailed instructions to the head of the nation’s track and field team.

Oral steroid tablets were not enough, they said, to ensure dominance at the Games. The team should also inject its top athletes with three other kinds of anabolic steroids.

Providing precise measurements and timetables for the doping regimens, the officials said they had a sufficient supply of the banned substances on hand at the Research Institute of Physical Culture and Sports in Moscow, a division of the government’s sports committee.

The potent drugs were critical to keeping up with the competition, they wrote in the instructions.

The document — obtained by The New York Times from a former chief medical doctor for Soviet track and field — was signed by Dr. Sergei Portugalov, a Soviet sports doctor who went on to capitalize on a growing interest in new methods of doping.

Now, more than 30 years later, Dr. Portugalov is a central figure in Russia’s current doping scandal. Last fall, the World Anti-Doping Agency named him as a key broker of performance-enhancing drugs in Russia, someone who in recent years injected athletes personally and made a business of covering up drug violations in exchange for money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/sports/olympics/soviet-doping-plan-russia-rio-games.html?_r=0

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I don't see any difference between Zabalinskaya and Armstrong.

I am not trying to bring anyone down. I am posting in an echo chamber to 12 guys who can see the sport for what it is.

I saw you as someone who was actively trying to argue against hypocrisy, not just an echo in a chamber. In any case, since you identify yourself as sitting in such a chamber, you must surely see how the athlete with the positive doping test is seen outside said chamber as the cleaner one, whatever your answer to the next question may be.

Which brings me too the following. I would think that the fact that Zabelinskaya has tested positive would point to a greater than 99% probability that she has doped, as far as it's defined by WADA. If you were forced to bet your life on one of those two having doped, would you not bet on Zabelinskaya?

Zabalinskaya tested positive. I am not doubting that she doped. I am neither doubting that Kristin Armstrong is a doper. I don't see any difference. They both dope to compete.

As for the echo chamber, that is what Vaughters referred to the clinic as.

But i dont believe what ADAs tell us. they have their agendas. That has been proven many times. As special ex WADA investigator Jack Robertson said "Sport is broken" and it is those that run the sport that rape it.

 

[luckyboy]

'Someone' hacked into Russian whistleblower Yulia Stepanova's ADAMS account - https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2016-08/wada-confirms-illegal-activity-on-yuliya-stepanovas-adams-account

And it's unclear exactly what is happening but now the only Russian allowed in track and field (long jumper Klishina) seems to have been banned from competing by the IAAF and is appealing to CAS. Seems to be new evidence related to McLaren Report..

 

[Cloxxki]

So...would this be another attempt to underline Russians having hacked the Democratic Clan in the US? Attack the acccount of a Russian said to be under threat of Russian secret service hitmen. BOOM, only Russians would have a motive, and since Russians hack, this means the DNC hack was just a hateful Russian ploy to get the stongest presidential candidate undermined....
I've not seen more than a few second of Rio. Not sure I'm missing out on anything good. Such a sour taste about the whole thing...

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

I don't see any difference between Zabalinskaya and Armstrong.

I am not trying to bring anyone down. I am posting in an echo chamber to 12 guys who can see the sport for what it is.

I saw you as someone who was actively trying to argue against hypocrisy, not just an echo in a chamber. In any case, since you identify yourself as sitting in such a chamber, you must surely see how the athlete with the positive doping test is seen outside said chamber as the cleaner one, whatever your answer to the next question may be.

Which brings me too the following. I would think that the fact that Zabelinskaya has tested positive would point to a greater than 99% probability that she has doped, as far as it's defined by WADA. If you were forced to bet your life on one of those two having doped, would you not bet on Zabelinskaya?

Zabalinskaya tested positive. I am not doubting that she doped. I am neither doubting that Kristin Armstrong is a doper. I don't see any difference. They both dope to compete.

As for the echo chamber, that is what Vaughters referred to the clinic as.

But i dont believe what ADAs tell us. they have their agendas. That has been proven many times. As special ex WADA investigator Jack Robertson said "Sport is broken" and it is those that run the sport that rape it.

Oh, I got the 12 reference but not the echo chamber one.

That was a non-answer to the Zabelinskaya vs. Armstrong question posed, unless you're saying you are somehow 100% certain that Armstrong doped, which isn't clear to me.
[edited for clarity, forum standards]

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

So...would this be another attempt to underline Russians having hacked the Democratic Clan in the US? Attack the acccount of a Russian said to be under threat of Russian secret service hitmen. BOOM, only Russians would have a motive, and since Russians hack, this means the DNC hack was just a hateful Russian ploy to get the stongest presidential candidate undermined....
I've not seen more than a few second of Rio. Not sure I'm missing out on anything good. Such a sour taste about the whole thing...

Was thinking the same thing. The DNC hack story hasn't really stuck, though it's funny how several DNC committee members have resigned and how that poor young guy mysteriously died (hey, speaking of mysterious deaths, isn't that what they do in Russia?). The more things like this happen, the more I'll be inclined to think it's all political. Not that the Olympics have EVER been 'political.....'

 

[Cloxxki]

Re: Re:

[quote="BullsFan22
Was thinking the same thing. The DNC hack story hasn't really stuck, though it's funny how several DNC committee members have resigned and how that poor young guy mysteriously died (hey, speaking of mysterious deaths, isn't that what they do in Russia?). The more things like this happen, the more I'll be inclined to think it's all political. Not that the Olympics have EVER been 'political.....' [/quote]
Short off-topic, but check out the Clinton body count video. 50 close coworkers since the 90's. "Suicides", plane crashes and murders. They are beating some well established statistics. Worse life expectancy than crab fishers. i think manic depression sufferers, fighter pilots and ghetto gang members have 10x better odds to make it through their careers alive.

On the Olympics, I can't bring myself to actively watch it. The more I know about doping and corruption, the less the top level competition can interest me. At least for me. I have recently started appreciating the lowest level of athletics much more. So mcuh to see in variety of motor skills, mental focus, entourage influence...

 

[The Carrot]

A gem of a quote from our Paula.

She told BBC Radio 5 live: "With everything that's come out, and the details of how ingrained it was within their system, I do wonder whether they actually know how to train and prepare for events properly without taking the cheating route.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/35375384

From January I know but I heard her say this again on the radio a few weeks ago.

 

[Cloxxki]

Some nerve on that one. Where to begin?

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

So...would this be another attempt to underline Russians having hacked the Democratic Clan in the US? Attack the acccount of a Russian said to be under threat of Russian secret service hitmen. BOOM, only Russians would have a motive, and since Russians hack, this means the DNC hack was just a hateful Russian ploy to get the stongest presidential candidate undermined....
I've not seen more than a few second of Rio. Not sure I'm missing out on anything good. Such a sour taste about the whole thing...

Was thinking the same thing. The DNC hack story hasn't really stuck, though it's funny how several DNC committee members have resigned and how that poor young guy mysteriously died (hey, speaking of mysterious deaths, isn't that what they do in Russia?). The more things like this happen, the more I'll be inclined to think it's all political. Not that the Olympics have EVER been 'political.....'

Wow, this is distasteful. Seth Rich (maybe name him?) was mugged. His bereaved family have explicitly asked people to stop speculating about this. Also, the DNC hack is...basically proven now.

 

[luckyboy]

Chermoshanskaya positive in 2008 for turbinol and stanzolol. Russian team disqualified from 4x100m gold medal.

https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-sanctions-yulia-chermoshanskaya-for-failing-anti-doping-test-at-beijing-2008

 

[jahn]

Well the good news is there's always olympic boxing. Don't even need to dope, just show up and act like a human punching bag for three rounds. Boom winner.

Levit vs. Tishchenko
Conlan vs. Nikita
etc.

Also do you guys think Russia pays their western shills the same as the ones in Saint Petersburg ?

 

[luckyboy]

Klishina full decision is out.. http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Award__FINAL__16-24.pdf

Basically CAS satisfied that she has been outside Russian system for an adequate period of time so original DRB decision to let her compete is upheld. Some shady stuff brought up from 2013/14 though - that T/E ratio..

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Well the good news is there's always olympic boxing. Don't even need to dope, just show up and act like a human punching bag for three rounds. Boom winner.

Levit vs. Tishchenko
Conlan vs. Nikita
etc.

Also do you guys think Russia pays their western shills the same as the ones in Saint Petersburg ?

I don't know about the others, but I get paid very handsomely. A few hundred bob for each post. Plus they gave me a nice penthouse in the center of Moscow.

 

[del1962]

Re:

Well the good news is there's always olympic boxing. Don't even need to dope, just show up and act like a human punching bag for three rounds. Boom winner.

Levit vs. Tishchenko
Conlan vs. Nikita
etc.

Also do you guys think Russia pays their western shills the same as the ones in Saint Petersburg ?

Corbyn or Trump :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[buckle]

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=k50FAAAAIBAJ&pg=4687,2789374&hl=en

Is this lame or what? Pirie was dead from stomach cancer at 60. One wonders if he was taking gear. Kuts was part of the mythology that the Olympics created for itself in the TV age although Melbourne was not televised in 1956 even if the Empire games of '54 were. A complete film of the 1500 exists from '56 and Ireland's Delaney actually looks like a human being! It comes curiously with a Russian commentary.

 

[Amnes2015]

anything anyone want to add after the million of 2012 positives regarding russian athletes?

so yes, if you are russian there is extra 10000% chance that you are doped. any amazing performance by Russian, deservingly, it's unbelievable.

this doesn't mean USA and GB athletes don't dope, they do. But state organized doping ? that's only in Russia and few more other countries with democracy problems.

you can close this thread now, the bash that Russia receives is entirely deserved, it's not lame.