More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky)

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Interesting to see Dawg creeping into the 500w range which is the red zone. For a clean rider who once couldn't ride straight he certainly is a model marvel to mankind.

No one else is going to beat him with the ability to punch out those types of watts. Not even Lance. Pantani would perhaps hold him and nip him at the line.

Pantani would have clobbered Froome, but he was about the only one. Even the likes of Armstrong, pre-'98 Virenque and Jimenez would have struggled.

So, which endurance sports have times today the same or faster than 10/20/30 years ago. It's all of them isn't it ?

How many of those sports *also* argue that they went from massive doping abuse to cleans over the past 20 years?

 

[Craigee]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Interesting to see Dawg creeping into the 500w range which is the red zone. For a clean rider who once couldn't ride straight he certainly is a model marvel to mankind.

No one else is going to beat him with the ability to punch out those types of watts. Not even Lance. Pantani would perhaps hold him and nip him at the line.

Pantani would have clobbered Froome, but he was about the only one. Even the likes of Armstrong, pre-'98 Virenque and Jimenez would have struggled.

So, which endurance sports have times today the same or faster than 10/20/30 years ago. It's all of them isn't it ?

Well No!!!!!

Athletics running is slower sprinting and endurance. Even Semenya can't get anywhere near the world record with the 8th fastest time for 800meters. Interesting that 6 of the 7 fastest times were in the 80s. Just one event but they did go on about the slower times at the recent Athletics world champs.

 

[Craigee]

I find the Tour of Britain better to watch than the Vuelta. Well I stopped watching the Vuelta once it became clear it was going to be another Froome Sky borefest.

What about the reason for riders like Quintana not performing in the Tour because they rode the Giro D'
Italia? Sky and Froome thrive on the racing. Their power of recovery is incredible. Kwiatkowski rode like a man possessed in the Tour for Froome then recovers to win the San Sebastian 6 days after the Tour. It's a big joke.

 

[thehog]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Appears riders are not the only ones upset, even journalists who are formally Brailsford cheerleaders...

Jeremy Whittle (@jeremycwhittle) Covered GTs since 1993. Never seen a collective performance to compare with Sky in @lavuelta - that includes Banesto, Telekom, Mapei, USP.

 

[heart_attack_man]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Appears riders are not the only ones upset, even journalists who are formally Brailsford cheerleaders...

Jeremy Whittle (@jeremycwhittle) Covered GTs since 1993. Never seen a collective performance to compare with Sky in @lavuelta - that includes Banesto, Telekom, Mapei, USP.

LOL. Says it all. Good company to keep...

 

[thehog]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Fairly much standard issue with Sky even when the UCI drop one rider from each team. We should look forward to a non-attacking Tour!

 

[aphronesis]

I was remembering the quote from Basso about attacking for a “laugh”.

 

[simoni]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Fairly much standard issue with Sky even when the UCI drop one rider from each team. We should look forward to a non-attacking Tour!

They've dominated in the past after losing a rider early on so it's hardly a surprise.

But ill wait a bit before drawing any conclusions on attacking, it's only one day - too soon for any chancers to risk much.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I was remembering the quote from Basso about attacking for a “laugh”.

We at Team Sky not like laughing

 

[thehog]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Dumoulin again: "With a strong team as Sky there, they can make a pace that everyone is on their limit. You can accelerate a bit, but then you will get caught and next you will get dropped. That is what everybody is so afraid of. It makes racing really difficulty".

 

[thehog]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Nibali states it as it is:

"The last two climbs were ridden at a very high pace, so it was impossible to attack," Nibali said on crossing the finish line at Le Grand Bornand. "On the first climb, there was a headwind and on the second, there was a very sustained, high pace from Sky, so there wasn't space to make attacks."

At last year's Tour, Sky gave the disquieting impression of being able to hold their rivals at arm's length in the high mountains. Despite the depth of this year's field of overall contenders, the scenario seemed to repeat itself all over again in the Alps on Tuesday. Their searing pace at the front discouraged dissent.

"Eh, they're strong, they're strong," Nibali said. "The tempo they set with Kwiatkowski and Castroviejo on the climbs…"

 

[Nighttrain99]

Re: Re:

I was remembering the quote from Basso about attacking for a “laugh”.

l

We at Team Sky not like laughing

Haha, someone with photoshop skills should change the faces to Armstrong, Landis, Hincapie, Pena, Heras, Ekimov, Rubiera, Joachim. US Postal Service, circa 2002....the song remains the same. Watching the stage today made me feel like Bill Murray in “Groundhog Day”.

 

[pastronef]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

this is the 7th year Sky is setting a high speed train on the climbs.
seventh year in a row
the other teams, if the UCI I-pads suck, should have long got the same super wheels or the same microdosing Sky allegedly use . they are a bit late

 

[Huapango]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

this is the 7th year Sky is setting a high speed train on the climbs.
seventh year in a row
the other teams, if the UCI I-pads suck, should have long got the same super wheels or the same microdosing Sky allegedly use . they are a bit late

I watched Kwiatkowski self-drop himself from the remainder of the peleton today after finishing off with his work at the front. His heart rate must have been in the double digits and looked almost bored.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Every big contender reporting the same insane pace making it impossible to attack since you're already at your limit. Only the boss himself ® (Froome) can probably still sprint after that.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

Every big contender reporting the same insane pace making it impossible to attack since you're already at your limit. Only the boss himself ® (Froome) can probably still sprint after that.

The only way to stop this is to put a cap on team budgets.
If Sky had less cash some of their doms would become available to other teams
to attack and enliven the game or be dom's for other teams.
It's just money and greed
not realy a sporting ethos
to treasure and protect.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

If Sky had less cash some of their doms would become available to other teams

People are hung up on salary. Like most teams, Sky spends 70-80% of its budget on wages (riders and staff). Yes, by virtue of having a higher budget, they are obviously spending more money on wages than most other teams. But they are also spending more money on other areas. One of which came up in Ochowicz's recent interview about the future of BMCCC:

Losing Porte – and Ochowicz must have known that the Australian would have been chased by rivals – cut the budget in more ways than just salaries. With Porte leaving, the new team could also cut resources in other ways, with altitude camps, reconnaissance trips and several members of staff no longer required.

When Porte’s coach David Bailey decided to leave for Marc Biver’s short-lived plans for a squad, Ochowicz was unlikely to have been too upset.

"Moving away from Grand Tours with Richie changes your dynamic because your schedule changes. We don't need to do altitude camps or recons for Grand Tours anymore. That frees things up," Ochowicz told Cyclingnews.

Other teams aren't even trying to compete with Sky's spending in these areas.

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

If Sky had less cash some of their doms would become available to other teams

People are hung up on salary. Like most teams, Sky spends 70-80% of its budget on wages (riders and staff). Yes, by virtue of having a higher budget, they are obviously spending more money on wages than most other teams. But they are also spending more money on other areas. One of which came up in Ochowicz's recent interview about the future of BMCCC:

Losing Porte – and Ochowicz must have known that the Australian would have been chased by rivals – cut the budget in more ways than just salaries. With Porte leaving, the new team could also cut resources in other ways, with altitude camps, reconnaissance trips and several members of staff no longer required.

When Porte’s coach David Bailey decided to leave for Marc Biver’s short-lived plans for a squad, Ochowicz was unlikely to have been too upset.

"Moving away from Grand Tours with Richie changes your dynamic because your schedule changes. We don't need to do altitude camps or recons for Grand Tours anymore. That frees things up," Ochowicz told Cyclingnews.

Other teams aren't even trying to compete with Sky's spending in these areas.

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/can-success-be-bought-in-pro-cycling-a-look-at-team-budgets-and-the-value-equation/

2016 budget estimates. Not sure what will have changed since then but I was of the understanding that Bahrain-Merida are very very well resourced now. Based on that, there's surely no reason why some of the other big budget teams shouldn't at least put up a better fight?

What sky do seem to do very well is get riders who'd probably be leaders at other teams to ride as domestiques for them (Poels nowadays, riders such as Porte, Konig previously).

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Based on that, there's surely no reason why some of the other big budget teams shouldn't at least put up a better fight?

Clearly, looking at other well financed teams, other teams clearly do find a reason not to put up a better fight.

 

[samhocking]

Budget is a red herring imo. The ROI for non-winning teams is about 10:1. Sky UK claims a return of around 100:1 for winning Tour de France. One would therefore argue, any team simply has to find a sponsor willing to pay just £10-20M a year more to match Team Sky and that £40M could end up a £400M ROI for them. Clearly there's a lot more to winning Tour de France than only money and affording riders, otherwise we would have seen teams beat Sky at their own game in last 7 years surely imo.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Every big contender reporting the same insane pace making it impossible to attack since you're already at your limit. Only the boss himself ® (Froome) can probably still sprint after that.

The only way to stop this is to put a cap on team budgets.
If Sky had less cash some of their doms would become available to other teams
to attack and enliven the game or be dom's for other teams.
It's just money and greed
not realy a sporting ethos
to treasure and protect.

They are so tour centric they would probably have the same team, just weaker Giro/Vuelta/Classics/Stage race squads.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tour-de-france/nibali-it-may-seem-boring-but-thats-modern-cycling_472562

 

[pastronef]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

Sky's tempo is too slow today. Pellizzotti-Nibali up the pace, and Valverde gained 1:30 for now

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Budget is a red herring imo. The ROI for non-winning teams is about 10:1. Sky UK claims a return of around 100:1 for winning Tour de France. One would therefore argue, any team simply has to find a sponsor willing to pay just £10-20M a year more to match Team Sky and that £40M could end up a £400M ROI for them. Clearly there's a lot more to winning Tour de France than only money and affording riders, otherwise we would have seen teams beat Sky at their own game in last 7 years surely imo.

Since when has finding sponsorship dollars for professional cycling teams been a simple task?

 

[samhocking]

Re: More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky

I don't see anything unique about Sky's sponsorship or pool of riders? The increased sponsorship has come with increased success not the other way after all. When Wiggins won, it was said Sky had 3rd to 4th biggest budget in peloton, not the biggest. Hard to be sure as several teams don't disclose their accounts.