More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky)

[ontheroad]

That was insane today. Classics rider Kwiatowski dropping mountain goats for fun and then Thomas sprinting away for victory. It was a frightening show of strength with 6 Skys still in the train on the last climb.

Only Bernal wasn't able to produce his bit on the train.

 

[hfer07]

What a FREAK SHOW!!
"G" has stepped it up, but the real disgusting/sickening performance came from the Magic Kenyan- fresh like a rose, pushing those watts with such fluency - like his Giro efforts were nothing
It is really odd how he "accelerates" on the saddle - I still believe there's got to be a mechanical aid involved- It is just NOT NORMAL!!

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

What sky do seem to do very well is get riders who'd probably be leaders at other teams to ride as domestiques for them (Poels nowadays, riders such as Porte, Konig previously).

With all respect to Poels, I'm convinced that at any other team he would be chopped liver.

In his first 8 years he was an absolute non-factor in the GC, which is a strong indication that his GC prowess are not that good (talents usually show themselves early). Besides 2016 he's not exactly a winner. He was an okay climber who clearly had a small engine for real contention in big races. Until he started warming down and have new pillows.

This is just one of those things that make those who know cycling end up disgusted. A decent rider breaking contender over his knees like dried reed (take note, by setting pace you run a higher wattage due to air resistance which is definitely a factor when climbing)... it's disconcerting. And that he's hardly the first rider who does amazingly good at Sky is not a secret. And which rider left Sky and shown similar strength?

Note that this is not winning due to tactics by belonging to a strong team, no this is due to being at this team you suddenly find enough watts to do amazing stuff. Yet when you leave the team suddenly your wattage drops again...

Sure, it happened before that mediocre riders punished other contenders. But it always turned out top be blood-fueled shenanigans.

 

[macbindle]

Funny how nobody noticed TTer Dumoulin dropping all the climbers...

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

Funny how nobody noticed TTer Dumoulin dropping all the climbers...

He attacked on a descent
But, yes Sunweb is on a whole other level (behind Sky tho) since last year which is very suspicious and I think TD is doping as well. But Sky is still crushing him.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

Funny how nobody noticed TTer Dumoulin dropping all the climbers...

He attacked on a descent

And stayed away

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Funny how nobody noticed TTer Dumoulin dropping all the climbers...

He attacked on a descent

And stayed away

See my edit to previous post.

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

What sky do seem to do very well is get riders who'd probably be leaders at other teams to ride as domestiques for them (Poels nowadays, riders such as Porte, Konig previously).

And which rider left Sky and shown similar strength?

Well, Uran and Porte for two.

+ at least a couple of others who haven't shown a hugely significant change in ability pre/during/post sky (Nieve, Landa).

 

[LargusMeans]

I think a way to bludgeon team Sky's financial superiority would be for the UCI to ban team radios and power meters. Sky has their tactics worked out down to the last watt. Take those tools away from them and the ability of the stem watcher to call tempo changes on the radio would hurt their advantage. It would also add a more chaotic element to the race as well and probably improve the spectacle.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I think a way to bludgeon team Sky's financial superiority would be for the UCI to ban team radios and power meters. Sky has their tactics worked out down to the last watt. Take those tools away from them and the ability of the stem watcher to call tempo changes on the radio would hurt their advantage. It would also add a more chaotic element to the race as well and probably improve the spectacle.

I think the UCI might need to actually ban them for things already outlawed

 

[King Boonen]

Power meters aren’t going anywhere.

 

[macbindle]

Power meters, radios, dope.

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Its like accusing Lewis Hamilton of cheating by speeding at a Grand Prix.

 

[ontheroad]

Re:

Power meters, radios, dope.

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Its like accusing Lewis Hamilton of cheating by speeding at a Grand Prix.

Probably because they have access to the best gear and because of the ridiculous transformation of their star riders. I don't think any reasonable person would claim that the other top riders aren't doping.

Riders with very limited pedigrees have been transformed into GT winners.

Then you have the condescending attitude and arrogance displayed in trying to convince people that they have re-invented the wheel.

Then you have the crushing, grinding style. Then you have Fancy Bears, TUEs, jiffy bags, Tramadol, Ketones, testosterone orders, stolen laptops, Kenacort, Salbutomol, Bilharzia, Asthma etc etc.

Come on. There are plenty of valid reasons why people find it very hard to warm to Sky.

 

[samhocking]

Exactly. There's nothing Sky have access to that others haven't discussed in the clinic. So that leaves everything not discussed yet. That's always a convenient exercise for Sky winning apart from that too is available to every team too at the end of they day.

 

[macbindle]

Power meters, radios, dope.

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Its like accusing Lewis Hamilton of cheating by speeding at a Grand Prix.

Probably because they have access to the best gear and because of the ridiculous transformation of their star riders. I don't think any reasonable person would claim that the other top riders aren't doping.

Riders with very limited pedigrees have been transformed into GT winners.

Then you have the condescending attitude and arrogance displayed in trying to convince people that they have re-invented the wheel.

Then you have the crushing, grinding style. Then you have Fancy Bears, TUEs, jiffy bags, Tramadol, Ketones, testosterone orders, stolen laptops, Kenacort, Salbutomol, Bilharzia, Asthma etc etc.

Come on. There are plenty of valid reasons why people find it very hard to warm to Sky.

Yeah...all of that. But at some point you have to get over it and enjoy the Tour for the utter sporting farce it has always been.

 

[Franklin]

Re:

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Which team got doping regulations adjusted due to financial muscle? And yes, we both know the answer that comes closest is USPS with dodgy tues and direct financial strongarming of a governing body.

Now you might be okay with fraud, most ethical people are not. This is not just about a jiffy bag.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Which team got doping regulations adjusted due to financial muscle? And yes, we both know the answer that comes closest is USPS with dodgy tues and direct financial strongarming of a governing body.

Now you might be okay with fraud, most ethical people are not. This is not just about a jiffy bag.

The scientist who devised the Salbutamol limit said he was wrong about it.

You really should make the effort to find out the details.

 

[Franklin]

We talk again in 5 years.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Which team got doping regulations adjusted due to financial muscle? And yes, we both know the answer that comes closest is USPS with dodgy tues and direct financial strongarming of a governing body.

Now you might be okay with fraud, most ethical people are not. This is not just about a jiffy bag.

The scientist who devised the Salbutamol limit said he was wrong about it.

You really should make the effort to find out the details.

Well no, he made some fuzzy statements what might at times be recorded incorrectly due to various reasons then said the limit should remain. That’s making the effort to find out about this things

 

[pastronef]

Re:

What a FREAK SHOW!!
"G" has stepped it up, but the real disgusting/sickening performance came from the Magic Kenyan- fresh like a rose, pushing those watts with such fluency - like his Giro efforts were nothing
It is really odd how he "accelerates" on the saddle - I still believe there's got to be a mechanical aid involved- It is just NOT NORMAL!!

Dumoulin beat him for second. Dumo got 2nd at the Giro 46 seconds behind him. are you mad at Dumo too?

 

[ontheroad]

Re:

Power meters, radios, dope.

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Its like accusing Lewis Hamilton of cheating by speeding at a Grand Prix.

Probably because they have access to the best gear and because of the ridiculous transformation of their star riders. I don't think any reasonable person would claim that the other top riders aren't doping.

Riders with very limited pedigrees have been transformed into GT winners.

Then you have the condescending attitude and arrogance displayed in trying to convince people that they have re-invented the wheel.

Then you have the crushing, grinding style. Then you have Fancy Bears, TUEs, jiffy bags, Tramadol, Ketones, testosterone orders, stolen laptops, Kenacort, Salbutomol, Bilharzia, Asthma etc etc.

Come on. There are plenty of valid reasons why people find it very hard to warm to Sky.

Yeah...all of that. But at some point you have to get over it and enjoy the Tour for the utter sporting farce it has always been.

If you can just accept it for what it is then that is fair enough.

However it is not a fair fight and when you see track riders, roleurs and TT specialists dropping waif like mountain goats over multiple climbs you just realise the absurdity of it all. Somebody has to win and the sport gets the champion it deserves.

 

[macbindle]

Dumoulin is one of those TT specialists remember. When you have a field of cheats it's a bit weird to blame the winner for cheating another cheat.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Dumoulin is one of those TT specialists remember. When you have a field of cheats it's a bit weird to blame the winner for cheating another cheat.

How many more times do you want to make the same argument?

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin is one of those TT specialists remember. When you have a field of cheats it's a bit weird to blame the winner for cheating another cheat.

How many more times do you want to make the same argument?

Is it an invalid argument?

At the root of this lies a deep hypocrisy.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

Accessible to all. Why the hysteria over one doping team beating other doping teams.

Which team got doping regulations adjusted due to financial muscle? And yes, we both know the answer that comes closest is USPS with dodgy tues and direct financial strongarming of a governing body.

Now you might be okay with fraud, most ethical people are not. This is not just about a jiffy bag.

The scientist who devised the Salbutamol limit said he was wrong about it.

You really should make the effort to find out the details.

Well no, he made some fuzzy statements what might at times be recorded incorrectly due to various reasons then said the limit should remain. That’s making the effort to find out about this things

You make it up as you go along, don't you

Nothing "fuzzy" about what Prof Ken Fitch says about his own test here (unless by "fuzzy" you just meant you didn't understand it)

"Professor Fitch now says that he made a “terrible blunder” and was “concerned” by cases such as Froome’s.

“If I had wanted to clarify the salbutamol levels of athletes in urine after taking the permitted dose, I would have done multiple studies, administering different doses and collecting urine over a period of time, not just once an hour later,” Fitch continued.

“A number have been carried out… but they have shown the problem that the metabolism and excretion of salbutamol is capricious.”

Responding to the questions raised about the current regulations surrounding salbutamol, WADA’s head of science Dr Oliver Rabin told the Guardian that the organisation had “no reason to question the rules [and] can see no reason that previous cases have not been handled fairly.”

However Professor Fitch says that there should be doubt over previous cases involving salbutamol, such as that of Italian sprinter Alessandro Petacchi who served a one-year ban following a test at the 2007 Giro d’Italia.

“Petacchi was innocent,” Fitch continued. “They [Wada] have to accept that the rules need changing,”

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/fundamental-flaw-wadas-salbutamol-regulations-revealed-scientist-came-385142