Motor doping thread

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Soooo: a Swiss rag is claiming that riders around Pogacar are hearing a motor in his rear hub. Has the UCI xrayed the rear hubs yet? They weigh the bikes to be sure that they are heavy enough so is TP's bike heavier than everyone else?

You are welcome to scroll up through this thread to see how many times I question rear hub motors that fit in standard size shells. Sure, in a dinner plate size hub, but in a Campy hub? So the gear from a watch are strong enough to add 50-100 w?!

I can't wait for the dude with the thermal cameras to pop up again!

I still don't like the title of this thread because its not 'doping', but whatever...
ha ha ha, now this is what I am talking about, oh man thank for this
 
The same article claims the system isn't electro-magnetic. ie not a motor but captures energy from the braking system and uses it in the hub like a motor. Hydraulic power assist could be something perhaps more mechanical than electric perhaps, seems very far-fetched to not use magnets and take energy from braking.
 
Has the UCI xrayed the rear hubs yet? They weigh the bikes to be sure that they are heavy enough so is TP's bike heavier than everyone else?
Oh come on, you know they they do more than weight the damn things, stop being silly.

UCI's latest release on the subject:
A total of 720 tests have been conducted before and after every stage. All tests have come back negative.

Of the tests carried out, 606 were conducted on bikes before the start of each stage using magnetic scanning tablets. Meanwhile X-ray technology was used to test another 114 bikes at the end of each stage.

The UCI underlines that the post-stage testing pool always includes the bike ridden by the winner of that day’s stage as well as the leader of the general classification. The remainder of the post-stage testing pool is decided on a two-pronged approach: bikes selected by the UCI based on its information and intelligence, and bikes ridden by athletes selected for targeted anti-doping controls by the International Testing Agency (ITA), the independent body in charge of the UCI’s anti-doping activities.
 
Oh come on, you know they they do more than weight the damn things, stop being silly.

UCI's latest release on the subject:
Uhm, I mention xray and weighing, I'm not sure why that is silly. They also use the ipad app, would that be silly to mention as well? The reason that many were sure that Sky was using motors is because there was a rumor that their bikes were heavier, hence why I posed that question (somewhat seriously and somewhat tongue in cheek).

EDIT Look at that, they xrayed 114 bikes. I'm silly, they're silly... :rolleyes:
 
Soooo: a Swiss rag is claiming that riders around Pogacar are hearing a motor in his rear hub. Has the UCI xrayed the rear hubs yet? They weigh the bikes to be sure that they are heavy enough so is TP's bike heavier than everyone else?

You are welcome to scroll up through this thread to see how many times I question rear hub motors that fit in standard size shells. Sure, in a dinner plate size hub, but in a Campy hub? So the gear from a watch are strong enough to add 50-100 w?!

I can't wait for the dude with the thermal cameras to pop up again!

I still don't like the title of this thread because its not 'doping', but whatever...
He is only 5% better than the others. If the others are at 6.2 w/kg, then he is at 6.5 w/kg. That gives a power of ~ 20 w only. As of now people are suspecting the bike but what if it is something that he can carry with him. that way he cannot be caught. After all something was removed from evenepoel's pocket.
 
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Jul 11, 2015
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Sounds pretty ridiculous to me, the lengths at which some will go...imagine being super gifted and clean and having to deal with this crap!
Imagine all of the professionals you see at big races being doped to some extend.
It is abit like F1. The teams that "cheat" or "gets the better tech made" are often the teams that wins... well that and the fact some are "protected" more than others. Its how sports are, its nothing new and not just cycling.

There have been countless stories about young youth talents in cycling here (and other sports as well) that has been "persuaded" to agree to various types of doping to be accepted into the elite... its just how it is. Is motor cheating a thing, I don´t know tbh. But it would be a hell of an invention tbh and if they nailed it, then I would go as far as to applaud those that made it (for their creativity and skill) but from a cycling angle, it would put down the interest even more than it already is and hurt it beyond redemption.. Doping atleast can be manipulated by all (even those that are supposed to opposite ofc)

I dare say, that the only one that should fear anything is the Russians, they sure are the modern day scapegoat of the obvious doping and tech cheating, that everybody does.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
He is only 5% better than the others. If the others are at 6.2 w/kg, then he is at 6.5 w/kg. That gives a power of ~ 20 w only. As of now people are suspecting the bike but what if it is something that he can carry with him. that way he cannot be caught. After all something was removed from evenepoel's pocket.
OK, 20 W (plus the watts that the rider is pushing) still can't happen in the small space inside of a rear hub.

OK, its something on the rider (in their jersey pocket), how is it getting power to the drivetrain?
 
It's obvious that there is motor doping going on and some teams are better at it than others.

We watch the sport for entertainment and cheating is part of the sport (and the entertainment).

It's one thing if people wish to exercise a suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy the show but quite another when people make the "holier than thou" statements claiming that they couldn't possibly be cheating.

Let's enjoy cycling for what it is, a show. They use wires in theater too but no one throws a hissy fit when people claim that the actors can't really fly.
 
Reactions: TMJ and jmdirt
Imagine all of the professionals you see at big races being doped to some extend.
It is abit like F1. The teams that "cheat" or "gets the better tech made" are often the teams that wins... well that and the fact some are "protected" more than others. Its how sports are, its nothing new and not just cycling.

There have been countless stories about young youth talents in cycling here (and other sports as well) that has been "persuaded" to agree to various types of doping to be accepted into the elite... its just how it is. Is motor cheating a thing, I don´t know tbh. But it would be a hell of an invention tbh and if they nailed it, then I would go as far as to applaud those that made it (for their creativity and skill) but from a cycling angle, it would put down the interest even more than it already is and hurt it beyond redemption.. Doping atleast can be manipulated by all (even those that are supposed to opposite ofc)

I dare say, that the only one that should fear anything is the Russians, they sure are the modern day scapegoat of the obvious doping and tech cheating, that everybody does.
Its pretty certain that seat tube/BB motors saw some 'testing' in the pro platoon, and we can all buy one. Hub motors in a standard hub shell are an entirely different thing. Unless I missed it, no one has shown a concept let alone a working model yet (some sketches, yes...).
 
Jul 11, 2015
53
7
3,695
It's obvious that there is motor doping going on and some teams are better at it than others.

We watch the sport for entertainment and cheating is part of the sport (and the entertainment).

It's one thing if people wish to exercise a suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy the show but quite another when people make the "holier than thou" statements claiming that they couldn't possibly be cheating.

Let's enjoy cycling for what it is, a show. They use wires in theater too but no one throws a hissy fit when people claim that the actors can't really fly.
Some of us rather not have the cheats. Because then we might as well just take away some getting caugh and some protected, then just allow anything..
If we don´t play by atleast some simple rules, then what do we have but anarki ?

There are plenty of examples of more low key cycling without doping and such, that are actually a lot more tactical. But you are right about that entertainment has become keyword.. everything is turning into some Americanised version of sports (that is just entertainment and buy success)

Maybe that is what some want, but then I can find plenty of other stuff to do, like taking a lovely bikeride myself and watching sport that does not allow this. Again if people expect and are certain about both regular doping and motor cheat, then why hide it and protect some.. let it come out in the open then.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
Jul 11, 2015
53
7
3,695
Its pretty certain that seat tube/BB motors saw some 'testing' in the pro platoon, and we can all buy one. Hub motors in a standard hub shell are an entirely different thing. Unless I missed it, no one has shown a concept let alone a working model yet (some sketches, yes...).
That may be so, but my knowledge about that is not good enough, thus I refrain from making to many claims about it. Doping however, that I know is a vivid part of professional sport and that includes cycling.
Hub motors seems like it is something for the future.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
It's obvious that there is motor doping going on and some teams are better at it than others.

We watch the sport for entertainment and cheating is part of the sport (and the entertainment).

It's one thing if people wish to exercise a suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy the show but quite another when people make the "holier than thou" statements claiming that they couldn't possibly be cheating.

Let's enjoy cycling for what it is, a show. They use wires in theater too but no one throws a hissy fit when people claim that the actors can't really fly.
The theater comparison doesn't really work for me. Pro sports works this way: There are specific rules and the spectator wants to know who's best within these rules, that's the excitement. Theater is not about who's best.

And about the motor thing: How can you say it's obvious?? What, apart from these claims that don't sound coherent or logic at all, tells you there's motor doping?

  1. That would mean there is in-competition doping, not only during a rest day, but during the race! That's the highest risk you can take.
  2. One of the main reasons why it is so hard to catch dopers is that you do not need things to be suspicious, you need them to be water-proof. If the values are over what can be reasonably expected, but could, in complete theory, be for real, the anti-doping agencies can't do more than test and test again. If they catch a motor or something like that in a bike, they have a 100% sure proof.
  3. There are obviously many ways to dope and not get caught, limits within which you can work, why would you choose the one with such a high chance to get caught? The effect would have to be out of this world to make this worth it and although there is a big difference between some teams and riders, it is not that big.
(4. One of the few hints we have, in my eyes, is that there is doping at altitude camps, especially with Bahrain and Jumbo. What speaks for in-race doping?)
 
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That may be so, but my knowledge about that is not good enough, thus I refrain from making to many claims about it. Doping however, that I know is a vivid part of professional sport and that includes cycling.
Hub motors seems like it is something for the future.
If you are interested, Google Vivax (Gruber) hidden motors. Several USA riders, a Canadian rider, and several UKers have YouTube videos of situations that indicate something could be in there. If my memory serves me correctly, one of the USAers admitted to using one.

Hub motors in a standard hub seem very difficult due to the lack of space (and the tiny pieces required in that tiny space). There are small electric motors for skateboards, but you have to fit it (obviously something similar) in the hub, and also make it work with the freehub.
Skateboard Motor Link
Hub Motor Link
Vivax Link
 
Reactions: markene2 and DrSahl
i really dont see how a KERS system would work on a bicycle. how are they getting the energy from braking into the hub? not only that, it would be prohibitively expensive, to the point where i dont even think it would be worth it considering the measly amount of money involved in cycling, compared to say F1.

i think there's a good chance motors are in use, but in my opinion they're barking up the wrong tree with this theory.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
I'm willing to believe that someone somewhere has fitted a motor and battery in a WT bike and even tested it in training, but I have a hard time believing that anyone would use them in the Tour. But one way to make sure it doesn't happen is a death penalty for the entire team involved, ie lifetime ban.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
I don't know that publication hence why I asked about it. And in my verbiage 'rag' is not an insult. One of my favorite bike publications ever was Dirt Rag. EDIT: I'll change it...

Interesting videos! I need to see three more things to be convinced: someone actually using it (actually powering the wheel in a race like situation), and shifting gears, oh yah, and the actual motor/battery/system. This could very well be similar to the skateboard motor I posted below.

I've seen two spoofs like this: one was able to spin the wheel in a bike stand, but just the weight of the bike sitting on the ground was too much for the motor to move the bike, the other could actually assist the bike, but the battery and supporting system were too big and heavy to be used in racing.

EDIT: both of those example are too noisy to use in a race.
 
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