Motor doping thread

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I could go crazy. All these ridiculous things going on, and nobody says a thing in the media, but now these stupid motor doping claims come up and they even talk about it during the broadcast. o_O:mad: Start to use your brains guys, please.
I don't think any media can say 'X Y Z looks dirty or ridiculous' because they will just get sued out of business by billionaire Ineos owner or the states that fund UAE and Bahrain.

If some riders talk about motors or doping suspicions then they can report it. What else can they do lol
 
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The whole Kers thing sounds like total bs to me. That and the fixation on Ketone drinks makes me think that the accusations come from the French teams.
Menwhile O'Conner has taken it to the nexet level once he joined Ag2R (Bardet was pushing his best numbers ever before crashimg out of the 2020 Tour and hasn't been the same since he joined DSM. G. Martin has also taken it to the next level once he joined Cofidis and on his day Gaudu is a world class climber.
 
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Of course motor doping is in use, it was even in use back in 2010 with cancellara and breschel, breschel who was fuming after flanders since he got the wrong spare bike, the same race where cancellara litteraly motored away from boonen (go figure). Also Sky was notorius for motor usage, just watch Poels here motoring away up the Angliru lol.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEsH8F1Hvns


Also 2013, especially with Froome up ventoux with the leaked watt files, its clear as day he is using a motor, you can also see it from the spectators view its so stupid.


Foliforovs famous tt in the giro, also ebike.


Roglic had motor in the bike at Strade Bianche a few years back as the infrared spectator cam found out.

Now many top teams have it, you have to adapt or die out, as such sky/ineos dominance is more or less over as other teams have leveled the playing field.

Lets face it UCI has no interest in catching any of these guys, as with the useless ipad scam app. Spectators should set up ir cams during mountain stages on the roadside, i would guarante the bikes would glow. You would have to be emotionaly invested to belive otherwise.
 
Reactions: wirral and DrSahl
The whole Kers thing sounds like total bs to me. That and the fixation on Ketone drinks makes me think that the accusations come from the French teams.
Menwhile O'Conner has taken it to the nexet level once he joined Ag2R (Bardet was pushing his best numbers ever before crashimg out of the 2020 Tour and hasn't been the same since he joined DSM. G. Martin has also taken it to the next level once he joined Cofidis and on his day Gaudu is a world class climber.
Hey, Ag2R is super clean! ;)
 
The whole Kers thing sounds like total bs to me. That and the fixation on Ketone drinks makes me think that the accusations come from the French teams.
Menwhile O'Conner has taken it to the nexet level once he joined Ag2R (Bardet was pushing his best numbers ever before crashimg out of the 2020 Tour and hasn't been the same since he joined DSM. G. Martin has also taken it to the next level once he joined Cofidis and on his day Gaudu is a world class climber.
UAE dropping Merida and going to Bridgestone next season. Here's tadejs newest KERS bike.

 
The whole Kers thing sounds like total bs to me. That and the fixation on Ketone drinks makes me think that the accusations come from the French teams.
Menwhile O'Conner has taken it to the nexet level once he joined Ag2R (Bardet was pushing his best numbers ever before crashimg out of the 2020 Tour and hasn't been the same since he joined DSM. G. Martin has also taken it to the next level once he joined Cofidis and on his day Gaudu is a world class climber.
Give a sign if you are being held hostage as usually your posts are more nuanced than the random 1 country accusations.
 
The whole Kers thing sounds like total bs to me. That and the fixation on Ketone drinks makes me think that the accusations come from the French teams.
Menwhile O'Conner has taken it to the nexet level once he joined Ag2R (Bardet was pushing his best numbers ever before crashimg out of the 2020 Tour and hasn't been the same since he joined DSM. G. Martin has also taken it to the next level once he joined Cofidis and on his day Gaudu is a world class climber.
O'Connor got a free 6:30 from everyone after winning from the break on Tignes and then finished with Kelderman in the Pyrenees which isn't really crazy.

Gaudu doesn't look abnormal for a talented 24 year getting to lead a team for the first time this year. He is another guy who will win now and then and just be somewhere in the middle/lower end of top 10 in GC.
 
Of course motor doping is in use, it was even in use back in 2010 with cancellara and breschel, breschel who was fuming after flanders since he got the wrong spare bike, the same race where cancellara litteraly motored away from boonen (go figure). Also Sky was notorius for motor usage, just watch Poels here motoring away up the Angliru lol.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEsH8F1Hvns


Also 2013, especially with Froome up ventoux with the leaked watt files, its clear as day he is using a motor, you can also see it from the spectators view its so stupid.


Foliforovs famous tt in the giro, also ebike.


Roglic had motor in the bike at Strade Bianche a few years back as the infrared spectator cam found out.

Now many top teams have it, you have to adapt or die out, as such sky/ineos dominance is more or less over as other teams have leveled the playing field.

Lets face it UCI has no interest in catching any of these guys, as with the useless ipad scam app. Spectators should set up ir cams during mountain stages on the roadside, i would guarante the bikes would glow. You would have to be emotionaly invested to belive otherwise.
The Roglic story was always the far fetched one. It wasn't a spectator cam, it was a thermal camera used by Stade 2, i.e. a French TV crew working for France Television. The rear wheel in question was from the neutral car, not Jumbo's own. And that Roglic story came at a time when they were pretty desperate to find incriminating evidence about anyone (there's even an unintentionally hilarious clip of Contador's mechanic fiddling with his watch in the Giro which they used as "evidence" of remote controlled battery use). So people need to be careful not to make actual real investigative journalism/pertinent questions look like crackpot theories with vague random insinuations based on nothing but guesswork (which is what someone like Antoine Vayer specializes at).

But notwithstanding that fact, I do agree the Froome & Sky stuff is definitely weird. Even with regards to the wild sudden accelerations/decelerations on the climbs. Froome would suddenly take off (apparently without his heartrate rising, according to data) in a seated position, blow everyone away with huge speed & then slow down again.

And I have no doubt someone, somewhere, used motors in the Tour & pro-peloton (considering everything else has been done in the history of the sport, i.e. including jumping on a train during a stage in the first edition). I only question how widespread motor usage is because as we know with doping, when one rider saw what another guy was on, he wanted it. We'd get "trickle-down" motorized doping, as happened in the 1990's with EPO doping. And then someone would get popped because let's face facts: hiding a motorized bike is probably way harder & riskier than cheating the dope controls.

For example at the Col de la Loze last year in the Tour de France, the commissaires actually destroyed Roglic' bike (which he'd finished the stage second on) in search of a motor (& the DS Merijn Zeeman got into a verbal altercation with them & was expelled). That made headlines, whilst the small matter regarding the fact there was nothing wrong with the bike at all was barely mentioned.
 
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The most obvious examples of motor use I have seen is Froome on Ventoux 2013, Contador on Mortirolo 2015 and Pogacar in 2020 on the flat part of the TT.
They are not using hub motors, it's crank motors perhaps with waterbottle as battery, but even that is not necessary to get a huge advantage. There is room for a smaller battery in the downtube above the motor.
 
Of course motor doping is in use, it was even in use back in 2010 with cancellara and breschel, breschel who was fuming after flanders since he got the wrong spare bike, the same race where cancellara litteraly motored away from boonen (go figure). Also Sky was notorius for motor usage, just watch Poels here motoring away up the Angliru lol.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEsH8F1Hvns


Also 2013, especially with Froome up ventoux with the leaked watt files, its clear as day he is using a motor, you can also see it from the spectators view its so stupid.


Foliforovs famous tt in the giro, also ebike.


Roglic had motor in the bike at Strade Bianche a few years back as the infrared spectator cam found out.

Now many top teams have it, you have to adapt or die out, as such sky/ineos dominance is more or less over as other teams have leveled the playing field.

Lets face it UCI has no interest in catching any of these guys, as with the useless ipad scam app. Spectators should set up ir cams during mountain stages on the roadside, i would guarante the bikes would glow. You would have to be emotionaly invested to belive otherwise.
As is obvious by my posts I definitely think that motors have been used and there are people working on better motors (smaller, more powerful, quieter, not metal, not detectable...). I do think that the iPad app can detect motors and I think that the mobile xray trailer can also detect things that shouldn't be in a bike. That being said, the streamable video was clearly manipulated. So far none of the thermal imaging convinces me of anything (so what are the chances of it convincing some who doesn't think that motors are even a possibility?). Spectators with ir cams (likely apps on their phone) are going to be better than the ipad apps? "A doesn't work/is fake, but everyone should use A to prove...".
 
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My contention has always been that the best place to use a motor is in the platoon before the race gets 'serious'. Imagine saving 20 w (continuous) for an hour during the race, now you have more of your own watts to use on the big climb. Plus there is so much noise in the group that no one will notice. If its just five guys on the final climb not only will people likely hear it, it becomes more obvious on video that you have a different speed. As someone above noted, a TT is a great place to use a motor: no one around you to hear it, no one around you for a speed reference, more internal space in the aero tubes...

Flip side of that, the TT example was from the final TT last year, and if I remember correctly there were images of TP's bike being slid into the xray trailer. For me that ends the argument. I do however understand that if you think that the UCI is in on it, the xray trailer is just a cotton candy machine.

One other point, while I understand secrecy/silence codes/pacts (omerta etc...), it seems that we would have had someone who either lost a job (maybe not even a rider), retired, or just slowed down with a new team start singing. Maybe the article from yesterday will blow things open?
 
streamable video was clearly manipulated
no its not, also by using thermal imaging you could detect engines that are in use during a race, just like they did in strade in 2016. ucis phony little show is doing nothing, no one will be caught unless someone does it independently, a police raid or some spectator steals someone bike live on tv and the motor is active. to much money is lost otherwise

 
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But notwithstanding that fact, I do agree the Froome & Sky stuff is definitely weird. Even with regards to the wild sudden accelerations/decelerations on the climbs. Froome would suddenly take off (apparently without his heartrate rising, according to data) in a seated position, blow everyone away with huge speed & then slow down again.
It really clear, just watch his riding style during the vuelta breakthrough with no motor and compare it to the tours he won, he actually looks and rides like a bike rider during the vuelta, in the other years he just looks like a spinning donkey on a ebike, combined with the power data as you say, no increasing heartrate, its clear as day he was using a motor.
 
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Incredible that this is still being discussed seriously. More chance of aliens landing.
Wait, is there a thread for that? The USA gov recently admitted that they have been hiding UFO stuff for years. Sorry off topic! :p

There is some relevance though because I do think that there is more life out there than there is on earth, but will it land on earth? I do think that motors have been 'tested' in the pro platoon, I do think that people are always developing ways to cheat, but...

I'm not a conspiracy theorist (although...neverminded) so the entire UCI being in on it isn't ringing for me yet. Plus, like I said above, no one has come forward yet (unless the three riders from the article are starting it).

One other point: there isn't a lot of money to be had in cycling so spending too much to develop something probably isn't in the cards.
 
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Of course motor doping is in use, it was even in use back in 2010 with cancellara and breschel, breschel who was fuming after flanders since he got the wrong spare bike, the same race where cancellara litteraly motored away from boonen (go figure). Also Sky was notorius for motor usage, just watch Poels here motoring away up the Angliru lol.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEsH8F1Hvns
...
I dont have a strong opinion on the topic in general, but I find it a bit funny to post videos of riders accelerating. Pouls probably putting in 250 more watts for 3 seconds to take the inner curve does in no way show that he is motor doping.
 
Reactions: markene2
-froome. various performances
-contador. 2011 and 2015.
-roglic. various perfromances
-cancellara. we all know when. some time trials as well.
-kruijsvijk. 2016 giro
-pogacar. 2020-21 grand tours
-wout van aert. various performances
-lance? sestriere?
-robolanda?
 
The other thing about these videos that leaves me very skeptical is that they don't zoom out. OK, there's the hub, show us the rest of the system. Ride it around to show us that it actually works.

Is Hungary Hub spinning backwards or is that an optional delusion (wagon wheel effect?)?

EDIT: They also have to have disc brake tabs on the hub which is easy enough, but they have to be the standard BCD or go with center lock (Campy doesn't have center lock) (neither look like they would work the Hungary Hub).

Here is the Hungary Hub out of the wheel (non drive side too obvious to sneak into a race):
View: https://twitter.com/thierryvildary/status/1416356474155065350
 
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I mean, I can see individuals using motors to win. But it mainly fails to explain why the whole peloton is going faster
A combination of equipment improvements, computers & their data improving training & also some performance enhancing techniques which aren't detectable in dope tests. That would be my guess. It's also likely some newer pharma stuff can be masked & all the top teams are on it.

But I take a step back when I read articles we've seen in recent days (& the ensuing conversation about motordoping/doping in the peloton): Ineos have a budget of 50 million. UAE have a massive budget, Bahrain has a large budget etc. (Jumbo are actually mid-range, according to Richard Plugge), i.e. of course their riders are faster than no-name random continental pro teams who get invites to the Tour de France (a fact which guys like Antoine Vayer refuse to acknowledge when assessing performances).

I mention this because I actually think a large part of the issue here is a bunch of riders arrive at the Tour de France & experience shock when guys like Wout van Aert or Tadej Pogacar do stuff on their bike & ride at speeds others can only dream of.

There is a sporting "meritocracy" which means some teams & riders will invariable trounce the others considering the teams they ride for & the environment they exert their profession in. For example, I read before the Tour about David Gaudu going to his "first" altitude training camp... when his rivals have lost count of the number of their own altitude camps by now.

I guess it's hard for some people to understand "how" some riders can be so superior to others when the bottom line (one guy on a bike versus another) seems so simple to compare even when the underlying skill, training & approach is vastly different depending on what level they're at.
 

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