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Motor doping thread

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The statement that someone from the team's entourage smuggled the bike in may be true. To avoid regular checks, not expecting the pits mobile checks? :)

It seems the rider has now tasted the reality, that a mechanical fraud case receives much less support from the sport than a substance positive. Harder to refute. She may know her whole teams to be on motors, or blood doping, but is being thrown under the bus. What is she to do? She's probably already tried to die of shame (I would have), and it didn't work.
 
Re: Re:

GenericBoonenFan said:
MarkvW said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
So according to the riders dad, a person of the entourage had put the bike in the pits and it was accidentaally given to her. I'm having a hard time believing this

Well...that is about the only possible excuse that would fit in with the undeniable facts...

Apparently it was the bike of a friend who goes along with her while warming up, the bike was left in the pits and apparently she didn't even ride it.

That's a better excuse, but it had best be the truth because it can easily be cross-checked!

After reading the Guardian story, if that story is true her own father is plainly mis-stating the facts.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

wrinklyvet said:
Benotti69 said:
wrinklyvet said:
What you read referred to a "minimum" and there is a possible fine for the rider and the team. This is not the "bash Cookson" thread. It seems he was right to expect this.

No but Cookson has hardly been transparent either.

About penalties for motors?

Do we get to see he x-rays of the bikes checked? Why not?

It only took 6 years after the first rumours to find the 1st bike with a motor!!!
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
wrinklyvet said:
Benotti69 said:
wrinklyvet said:
What you read referred to a "minimum" and there is a possible fine for the rider and the team. This is not the "bash Cookson" thread. It seems he was right to expect this.

No but Cookson has hardly been transparent either.

About penalties for motors?

Do we get to see he x-rays of the bikes checked? Why not?

It only took 6 years after the first rumours to find the 1st bike with a motor!!!

No idea. if you think we are entitled, you had better suggest it to someone who can reply.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

wansteadimp said:
WillemS said:
When I see that Koppenberg result, I'm starting to think the test might not have been all that random. Weird and unusual results should warrant extra attention.

The Guardian is reporting a quote from a UCI bloke that they were testing a new detection system rather than target testing.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/30/hidden-motor-bike-world-cyclo-cross-championships

This will really help the sport when national papers report that rider have motors in their bikes. Gonna be hard to see the sport grow now. The sport only has itself to blame. The 'need to cheat culture' has never been dealt with. It has always been acceptable to do it in some form and authorities turned a blind eye to 99% of it.

Gonna be fun in July when the 'aliens' speeding up climbs not only have to fend off the chemical questions but now the motor questions!
 
Re:

GenericBoonenFan said:
I'm starting to question the entire mechanical doping thing, if she would've been riding that thing the entire year otjer mechanics in the pits should've noticed something already, shouldn't they?
Even seen a cross mechanic with an x-ray machine?
The whole point of the motors is that they are not detectable with the naked eye. Being conceiled and all.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

wrinklyvet said:
Benotti69 said:
wrinklyvet said:
Benotti69 said:
wrinklyvet said:
What you read referred to a "minimum" and there is a possible fine for the rider and the team. This is not the "bash Cookson" thread. It seems he was right to expect this.

No but Cookson has hardly been transparent either.

About penalties for motors?

Do we get to see he x-rays of the bikes checked? Why not?

It only took 6 years after the first rumours to find the 1st bike with a motor!!!

No idea. if you think we are entitled, you had better suggest it to someone who can reply.

Cookson talked about transparency and did little in that area. This would've helped if they published the x-rays. I think if the UCI is asking fans to believe in the sport it had better deliver. It doesn't.
 
Re: Re:

Cloxxki said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
I'm starting to question the entire mechanical doping thing, if she would've been riding that thing the entire year otjer mechanics in the pits should've noticed something already, shouldn't they?
Even seen a cross mechanic with an x-ray machine?
The whole point of the motors is that they are not detectable with the naked eye. Being conceiled and all.

Not what I meant, I mean that bikes like this have to be treated and cleaned very differently. Experienced mecanics should've notice that
 
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Re: Re:

MarkvW said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
MarkvW said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
So according to the riders dad, a person of the entourage had put the bike in the pits and it was accidentaally given to her. I'm having a hard time believing this

Well...that is about the only possible excuse that would fit in with the undeniable facts...

Apparently it was the bike of a friend who goes along with her while warming up, the bike was left in the pits and apparently she didn't even ride it.

That's a better excuse, but it had best be the truth because it can easily be cross-checked!

This is World's not a little local race. I assume staff needed credentials to get into the pits? Who is this friend and why did they treat the technical zone at a World Championship as their own personal bike parking area? Just does not seem at all credible that this bike is in the pit for any reason at all. Anyway is the bike frame size and position fitting the athlete in question? Will be easy to call BS on this story if the bike fits her. A la "if the glove don't fit you must acquit"...or not.
 
Re: Re:

GenericBoonenFan said:
Cloxxki said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
I'm starting to question the entire mechanical doping thing, if she would've been riding that thing the entire year otjer mechanics in the pits should've noticed something already, shouldn't they?
Even seen a cross mechanic with an x-ray machine?
The whole point of the motors is that they are not detectable with the naked eye. Being conceiled and all.

Not what I meant, I mean that bikes like this have to be treated and cleaned very differently. Experienced mecanics should've notice that

Excellent point. You can't motor bike without a cooperating mechanic. And a cooperating team structure. A key strategy in pro cycling is to offload all responsibility onto the rider who was caught and away from his or her team.
 
Re: Re:

Anaconda said:
MarkvW said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
MarkvW said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
So according to the riders dad, a person of the entourage had put the bike in the pits and it was accidentaally given to her. I'm having a hard time believing this

Well...that is about the only possible excuse that would fit in with the undeniable facts...

Apparently it was the bike of a friend who goes along with her while warming up, the bike was left in the pits and apparently she didn't even ride it.

That's a better excuse, but it had best be the truth because it can easily be cross-checked!

This is World's not a little local race. I assume staff needed credentials to get into the pits? Who is this friend and why did they treat the technical zone at a World Championship as their own personal bike parking area? Just does not seem at all credible that this bike is in the pit for any reason at all. Anyway is the bike frame size and position fitting the athlete in question? Will be easy to call BS on this story if the bike fits her. A la "if the glove don't fit you must acquit"...or not.
I'm trying to find some info on the brand of the bike but it's almost midnight here in Europe
 
National coach De Bie is blatantly throwing her under the bus, beyond what you would expect with a young rider in any circumstance. With an adverse analytical finding it would have been much more diplomatic. Yet, the reported bans for mechanical fraud seem to be lower than doping. A curious discrepancy.
If indeed her brother already got pipped for EPO, could it be her family is just being worked out of the sport? Like Landis got caught for testosterone while juggling blood bags, Hamilton for homologous blood doping when he was juggling his own? Someone prepares a bike in her size with motor, hoists it over a fance, and the UCI are right there to go "ahah". All a bit elaborate. And her climbing at the Koppenberg seems a bit über-dopet indeed. So how good is she really? We'll probably never know as she won't be available for an independent ergo test surely. Too heartbroken over it all.
 
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About time for Cookson to make a statement, Sebby style: "We have made tremendous progress in mechanical doping detection but clearly there is a great deal more to do. That is why I am the man for the job."
 
Re: Re:

MarkvW said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
Cloxxki said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
I'm starting to question the entire mechanical doping thing, if she would've been riding that thing the entire year otjer mechanics in the pits should've noticed something already, shouldn't they?
Even seen a cross mechanic with an x-ray machine?
The whole point of the motors is that they are not detectable with the naked eye. Being conceiled and all.

Not what I meant, I mean that bikes like this have to be treated and cleaned very differently. Experienced mecanics should've notice that

Excellent point. You can't motor bike without a cooperating mechanic. And a cooperating team structure. A key strategy in pro cycling is to offload all responsibility onto the rider who was caught and away from his or her team.
Indeed.
Makes you wonder. You can dope an athlete by making their breakfast for them. Or taint a "vitamin" shot.
To which extent could a bike be tuned and the rider just think they have killer race legs? Electronics could be designed better and better. Cut in very smoothly, only under huge load so it's a small percentage of total power output. Rider deposits a muddy bike in the pits, and the clean one always feels quicker. How much could a rider be fooled? I know that I, as a national MTB'er, could have my seat 1-2cm too low and I would not know that that was happening. More sensitive riders notice 2mm instantly. Everyone has had days of magical legs. I've flown up training climbs way beyong my normal capability with no other person in sight. Did someone trick my bike? No, I was my own mechanic. But could I build a spare cross bike that would trick its owner/designated rider into thinking to enjoy a magic legs day? I think I could...
In cross and road where a rider have multiple bikes, cared for by someone else, unknowlingly riding an illegal bike is somewhat plausible. People are being given EPO shots while told it's vitamines, so why not dope their bike? Especially some women I know just get on a bike and do their thing. May not even notice it's another color or heavier than usual. It's a bike.
 
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Interesting notion flying around on twitter: This might actually be a warning to men racing tomorrow. Watch out, we're here with our new detection system, so only bring your clean bikes. Currently I'm cynical up to the point of not even being surprised if that were actually the case.
 
Re:

WillemS said:
Interesting notion flying around on twitter: This might actually be a warning to men racing tomorrow. Watch out, we're here with our new detection system, so only bring your clean bikes. Currently I'm cynical up to the point of not even being surprised if that were actually the case.

That makes sense.
 
Re: Re:

Cloxxki said:
MarkvW said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
Cloxxki said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
I'm starting to question the entire mechanical doping thing, if she would've been riding that thing the entire year otjer mechanics in the pits should've noticed something already, shouldn't they?
Even seen a cross mechanic with an x-ray machine?
The whole point of the motors is that they are not detectable with the naked eye. Being conceiled and all.

Not what I meant, I mean that bikes like this have to be treated and cleaned very differently. Experienced mecanics should've notice that

Excellent point. You can't motor bike without a cooperating mechanic. And a cooperating team structure. A key strategy in pro cycling is to offload all responsibility onto the rider who was caught and away from his or her team.
Indeed.
Makes you wonder. You can dope an athlete by making their breakfast for them. Or taint a "vitamin" shot.
To which extent could a bike be tuned and the rider just think they have killer race legs? Electronics could be designed better and better. Cut in very smoothly, only under huge load so it's a small percentage of total power output. Rider deposits a muddy bike in the pits, and the clean one always feels quicker. How much could a rider be fooled? I know that I, as a national MTB'er, could have my seat 1-2cm too low and I would not know that that was happening. More sensitive riders notice 2mm instantly. Everyone has had days of magical legs. I've flown up training climbs way beyong my normal capability with no other person in sight. Did someone trick my bike? No, I was my own mechanic. But could I build a spare cross bike that would trick its owner/designated rider into thinking to enjoy a magic legs day? I think I could...
In cross and road where a rider have multiple bikes, cared for by someone else, unknowlingly riding an illegal bike is somewhat plausible. People are being given EPO shots while told it's vitamines, so why not dope their bike? Especially some women I know just get on a bike and do their thing. May not even notice it's another color or heavier than usual. It's a bike.

If this is the dad, suspend him not the rider
If this is the rider, then I'm wondering who cooperates with this.
 
The rider only needs to know to suspend her. IMO for 2-4 years.

Non-snitching in its own should be treated the same in terms of punishment to active doping. The silence is the driving force behind cheating. And we only saw the extortion by official side of things in Kenya and to a degree Russia. You betcha those are not isolated cases. Someone who wins a big race gets a nice amount of Swiss Francs,and a new contract. So easy to scoop those up as an official. Heck, as an official you can facilitate dealings with top sponsors.
 
Poor girl such mixed messages going to her. I think she was in the age group of Juniors that Cookson did the talk to at the Road Worlds - the one where he introduced Eddy as someone to look up to - look kids - cheating pays - and Cookson did his selfie with him. I wonder Cookson hasn't posted up a selfie from when Sepp gave him that nice award at a FIFA conference.

Now here she is just trying to do her bit for Belgium but using the latest gadgets and they go all fussy over a bike she wasn't even riding.

But back to the main event epo - ok I just don'e believe we are hearing the full story of just who is testing positive, some are still being kept quiet - a hamstring that is not getting better comes to mind. Where and how was it known that her brother was done for epo ? If he was how wasn't she being target tested morning noon and night and why couldn't they sort out tests to match her calendar for juicing up prior to the big ones. What I am saying is - is the testing regime in Belgium corrupt - leaked information of surprise tests ? If the conspiracy theorists are right and this was a shot to warn off some elite men for tomorrow, it is making the whole "we are all cleans now - the testing has never been better" story seem even thinner.

Got to be a few mechanics burning the midnight oil tonight. A few bins around Zolder might well have some valuable trash in them tomorrow morning.

Anyone asked JV for his opinion or Hejersdal or Spartacus ? We need an expert's opinion on this. Hmm braking into corners on mountain climbs - now just who does that ?