It should be easy enough to design a gadget that picks up the electromagnetic noise from the motor. The noise will be in a specific frequency range. This sort of project is what the Raspberry Pi was invented for....
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Re:
However, my idea was for an infrared detector. A small, low voltage motor would draw a high amperage to produce any useful power and that would create substantial heat, particularly in the enclosed, unventilated space of a bike frame. There are of course other infrared sources around (a hot rider!) but there should be no reason for any signature from a bike frame. Portable infrared detectors are also readily available.
I thought about this a bit when we saw the photos last season of commisaires pearing down seat tubes. With frequent bike changing, even in road races, it's tricky for the commisaires to know which bike was used where in a race so there is a need for a non-evasive mobile checking technique during the race, preferably carried by a moto-commisaire.Chipist said:
However, my idea was for an infrared detector. A small, low voltage motor would draw a high amperage to produce any useful power and that would create substantial heat, particularly in the enclosed, unventilated space of a bike frame. There are of course other infrared sources around (a hot rider!) but there should be no reason for any signature from a bike frame. Portable infrared detectors are also readily available.
Re:
that's VERY reminiscent of Cancellara 2010 just drifting away from Boonen on the Muur without any sort of visible accelleration of the legs.Brian Butterfield said:
Re: Re:
Yeah, astonishing irony, Cance winning yesterday.
starting at 2:35
somebody with some basic cut&paste skills could maybe put the two side by side to show the similarities.
Yeah, astonishing irony, Cance winning yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6z7uUe0tVAsniper said:
starting at 2:35
somebody with some basic cut&paste skills could maybe put the two side by side to show the similarities.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
Sad for cycling more cheating and a young rider destroying their future career. I'd see a lifetime ban for caught teams, riders and anyone involved. It's completely mocking the sport.
On another note that clip... Why does Alberto need to swap bikes on back to back days?! Funny commentary though.
Anyone remember Froome's bike change in the hilly ITT at the Tour 13? I only heard through a friend he'd swapped as I was there that day and no accsess to a tv. It's the bikes that don't make it to the end of the race that could potentially be dodgy.
Once you get away with it it must be quite toxic too, like tweaking your bloods with game changing substances. The murky world of cycling. Hey ho....
As for the young lady this is not her brain that's implemented this but a small network. Scary.
LaFlorecita said:Oh my ghosh a rider changing his bike and was that Uncle Bjarne pushing him off?oldcrank said:It's becoming harder to ignore Cipo's comments during the 2015 Giro,
and/or this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cDbNJMwxWY
Sad for cycling more cheating and a young rider destroying their future career. I'd see a lifetime ban for caught teams, riders and anyone involved. It's completely mocking the sport.
On another note that clip... Why does Alberto need to swap bikes on back to back days?! Funny commentary though.
Anyone remember Froome's bike change in the hilly ITT at the Tour 13? I only heard through a friend he'd swapped as I was there that day and no accsess to a tv. It's the bikes that don't make it to the end of the race that could potentially be dodgy.
Once you get away with it it must be quite toxic too, like tweaking your bloods with game changing substances. The murky world of cycling. Hey ho....
As for the young lady this is not her brain that's implemented this but a small network. Scary.
I've been searching in vain, so can someone please point me to an official or witness statement (preferably translated into english) that says a motor has actually been found?
Re: Re:
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/01/cookson-message-to-all-cheaters-we-will-catch-up-with-you-sooner-or-later/
great vision, sniper.sniper said:
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/01/cookson-message-to-all-cheaters-we-will-catch-up-with-you-sooner-or-later/
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Re:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci...uncovered-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/
Cookson has confirmed.
Farcanal said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci...uncovered-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/
Cookson has confirmed.
I'm certain motor-assist has been tested -- and probably used in training, and perhaps in a race (speaking of the pro road peloton). As others have said, probably in the first 150k of a classics-type race, then a switch for the last 50k, fresh legs for the late-race surge would be a huge benefit, even a 5% savings would make a difference.
TBH because it would be a black and white situation (motor or no motor) I'd START with a 2-year rider and DS ban and suspend team for a year. THAT would discourage it.
TBH because it would be a black and white situation (motor or no motor) I'd START with a 2-year rider and DS ban and suspend team for a year. THAT would discourage it.
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we have been talking/joking about this for years now, and they finally found one! i am amazed, have never seen one in person that im aware of, only the videos, this is going to make for some good conversations this spring! looked really interesting, if the unit was cheaper maybe i would have installed one in my personal bike at home!
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Re: Re:
Well done sniper - it is like night follows day - and now this is a great quote
“If these are in widespread use remains to be seen,” said Cookson.
I put that into Google translate. I selected bul**** to English and it came out with "we have thrown a small fry under the bus, but don't worry we are leaving all the big fish alone - keep buying all your Sky kit and £6k bikes - continue to believe folks, we are not tainting the fairy story - I love my salary and perks - this gravy train has to continue rolling."
Brian is after all cheaters - we will catch you sooner or later! That is great news.
Quick somebody tell him, the guy on the right of him in this selfie got away with it.
So Bajrne, Canc JV and Hejersdal can get away with it, the Dawg has to put the brakes on going into bends on climbs - 6 years after the first video evidence of Spartacus pressing a button on a Sram gearshifter set that has no button in that location and the first "little fish" is caught - greased lightning, on it like a flash. No way is this girl doing it on her own, got be to quite some network behind her. Who did she see doing it first? When did she, her father and brother hear about it all. When did they witness one of the big stars getting away with it and say "we can have a bit of that !" Got to be some officials also involved, turning a blind eye.
sniper said:great vision, sniper.sniper said:
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/01/cookson-message-to-all-cheaters-we-will-catch-up-with-you-sooner-or-later/
Well done sniper - it is like night follows day - and now this is a great quote
“If these are in widespread use remains to be seen,” said Cookson.
I put that into Google translate. I selected bul**** to English and it came out with "we have thrown a small fry under the bus, but don't worry we are leaving all the big fish alone - keep buying all your Sky kit and £6k bikes - continue to believe folks, we are not tainting the fairy story - I love my salary and perks - this gravy train has to continue rolling."
Brian is after all cheaters - we will catch you sooner or later! That is great news.
Quick somebody tell him, the guy on the right of him in this selfie got away with it.
So Bajrne, Canc JV and Hejersdal can get away with it, the Dawg has to put the brakes on going into bends on climbs - 6 years after the first video evidence of Spartacus pressing a button on a Sram gearshifter set that has no button in that location and the first "little fish" is caught - greased lightning, on it like a flash. No way is this girl doing it on her own, got be to quite some network behind her. Who did she see doing it first? When did she, her father and brother hear about it all. When did they witness one of the big stars getting away with it and say "we can have a bit of that !" Got to be some officials also involved, turning a blind eye.
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Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
Even when he changed wheels with Basso on Mortirolo and could have lost the Giro it was seen as suspicious. "Oh Basso didn't immediately within 3 seconds switch to a new wheel so obviously nothing was wrong with the wheel so obviously it was a doped wheel so obviously Contador is a bike doping fraud". It's farcical.
Different tires different gears different bike weight perhaps even an entirely different set up which is better for climbing out of the saddle. There can be a billion different reasons but the anti-doping trolls prefer to believe the most far-fetched. It is just stupid and tiresome. His bike has been checked many times and never has something been found.sniper said:LaFlorecita said:Oh my ghosh a rider changing his bike and was that Uncle Bjarne pushing him off?oldcrank said:It's becoming harder to ignore Cipo's comments during the 2015 Giro,
and/or this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cDbNJMwxWY
you heard the commentary? they can't figure out why alberto changed bike every day before an MTF finale.
Commentary at the end of that clip is hilarious btw.
And that l'Equipe article on motorization also focused on Contador's bike changes, remember? L'Equipe are usually good at seeing the smoke.
interestingly, Bjarne was there when Cance introduced motorized bikes in the peloton in '10.
So in short, yes, it seems warranted to be suspicious of contador + motorization.
Even when he changed wheels with Basso on Mortirolo and could have lost the Giro it was seen as suspicious. "Oh Basso didn't immediately within 3 seconds switch to a new wheel so obviously nothing was wrong with the wheel so obviously it was a doped wheel so obviously Contador is a bike doping fraud". It's farcical.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
If it's so obvious then why were those commentators in the dark about Berto's switches?
And ss they also noted, you can leave the bike weight out of the equation. The bikes are already as light possibly allowed, there's no scope for going any lighter.
Don't know what your view on Cance 2010 is, but if you suspect he was motorized, well Bjarne was in on it.
So yes, every team that Bjarne managed subsequently will be under reasonable suspicion.
I agree that there could be several non-motor-related reasons. But that obviously doesn't mean we should discard motorization.LaFlorecita said:Different tires different gears different bike weight perhaps even an entirely different set up which is better for climbing out of the saddle. There can be a billion different reasons but the anti-doping trolls prefer to believe the most far-fetched. It is just stupid and tiresome. His bike has been checked many times and never has something been found.sniper said:LaFlorecita said:Oh my ghosh a rider changing his bike and was that Uncle Bjarne pushing him off?oldcrank said:It's becoming harder to ignore Cipo's comments during the 2015 Giro,
and/or this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cDbNJMwxWY
you heard the commentary? they can't figure out why alberto changed bike every day before an MTF finale.
Commentary at the end of that clip is hilarious btw.
And that l'Equipe article on motorization also focused on Contador's bike changes, remember? L'Equipe are usually good at seeing the smoke.
interestingly, Bjarne was there when Cance introduced motorized bikes in the peloton in '10.
So in short, yes, it seems warranted to be suspicious of contador + motorization.
If it's so obvious then why were those commentators in the dark about Berto's switches?
And ss they also noted, you can leave the bike weight out of the equation. The bikes are already as light possibly allowed, there's no scope for going any lighter.
you're overstating it a bit.
Don't know what your view on Cance 2010 is, but if you suspect he was motorized, well Bjarne was in on it.
So yes, every team that Bjarne managed subsequently will be under reasonable suspicion.
Re:
Oh sure....my impression of cx is that riders are fanatical about how their spare bikes are prepared in terms of position, air pressure (on that given day there must have been hand-wringing about the mud, etc.). Are we to believe that a member of the entourage put a motor in one of her spare bikes JUST so she could get caught !!!
It would have been more believable to say it was her dogs bike........
GenericBoonenFan said:
Oh sure....my impression of cx is that riders are fanatical about how their spare bikes are prepared in terms of position, air pressure (on that given day there must have been hand-wringing about the mud, etc.). Are we to believe that a member of the entourage put a motor in one of her spare bikes JUST so she could get caught !!!
It would have been more believable to say it was her dogs bike........
Re: Re:
One could not have deliberately come up with a more ironic caption for that pic!!!
sniper said:
One could not have deliberately come up with a more ironic caption for that pic!!!
Re:
Reminds me of the drug dealers who get caught holding a bag of dope. The very first thing they say is: "It's not my dope. I was holding for some dude who forced me to hold it...."
Tienus said:
Reminds me of the drug dealers who get caught holding a bag of dope. The very first thing they say is: "It's not my dope. I was holding for some dude who forced me to hold it...."
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It's not farcical to ask questions about Alberto's bike changes, especially not in the light of this 'news'. If she is the first one to be caught publicly it means it's been going on for a while already. The question is how widespread has the use been? And what methods have been used to avoid getting caught and sanctioned? Bribery is of course one method but is there a quick way to remove a motor from a bike?
Re: Re:
incredible what a sucker.
I think a key point is this: it seems highly unlikely that a doping innovation would start in the lower ranks. It suggests that mechanical doping has probably been going on for a while (edit: see Metabolol's post above), but for the UCI it is always better to pop a minor rider who no one will remember than to pop money makers like Cancellara, Dertie or, god forbid, Froome.
lol at that selfie.Freddythefrog said:Well done sniper - it is like night follows day - and now this is a great quote
“If these are in widespread use remains to be seen,” said Cookson.
I put that into Google translate. I selected bul**** to English and it came out with "we have thrown a small fry under the bus, but don't worry we are leaving all the big fish alone - keep buying all your Sky kit and £6k bikes - continue to believe folks, we are not tainting the fairy story - I love my salary and perks - this gravy train has to continue rolling."
Brian is after all cheaters - we will catch you sooner or later! That is great news.
Quick somebody tell him, the guy on the right of him in this selfie got away with it.
So Bajrne, Canc JV and Hejersdal can get away with it, the Dawg has to put the brakes on going into bends on climbs - 6 years after the first video evidence of Spartacus pressing a button on a Sram gearshifter set that has no button in that location and the first "little fish" is caught - greased lightning, on it like a flash. No way is this girl doing it on her own, got be to quite some network behind her. Who did she doing it first? When did she, her father and brother hear about it all. When did they witness one of the big stars getting away with it and say "we can have a bit of that !" Got to be some officials also involved turning a blind eye.
incredible what a sucker.
I think a key point is this: it seems highly unlikely that a doping innovation would start in the lower ranks. It suggests that mechanical doping has probably been going on for a while (edit: see Metabolol's post above), but for the UCI it is always better to pop a minor rider who no one will remember than to pop money makers like Cancellara, Dertie or, god forbid, Froome.
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What kind of organization is there around her? I don't know anything about the technological side of moto doping but I doubt it's something you do on your own. Is her father really involved in her career? Who is her mechanic?
In general, could moto doping be done by one person, if he/she is really good at cycle mechanics etc?
In general, could moto doping be done by one person, if he/she is really good at cycle mechanics etc?
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