Motor doping thread

[Benotti69]

Re:

If Cancellara used a motor yesterday, it was still a lot less epic than his performances in the 2010 Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix.

That could be because others now have motors.

 

[Benotti69]

I would guess that motors have evolved and sizes reduced.

Also the wheels are purported to have a motor system.

 

[sniper]

I think Pat is happy he could pass this hot potato on to Crookson.
In fairness to Crookson, the problem started with Pat who did nothing in 2009 when Boardman warned the UCI about it, nor did Pat do much in 2010 when Cassani broke the Varjas story on Italian TV and when rumors about Cance using a motor were pretty loud within the peloton.
When Crookson took over, he just continued doing absolutely nothing and hoping this would all go away like a bad dream.

 

[Tienus]

I heard it was wet and windy so is it possible that he made up a load of time with a killer decent and Dumoulin was taking it a bit easier for fear of busting himself up again?.

Dumoulin was keeping similar pace to the other top riders. Cancellara is the odd one.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Chris Boardman stated that over 10k he had made up 24 seconds.... and that was remarkable...said it was a pity we didnt see that section of the course

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re:

Chris Boardman stated that over 10k he had made up 24 seconds.... and that was remarkable...said it was a pity we didnt see that section of the course

The section where he makes up the most time (the 3rd section) is the section where you'd expect him to make up the most time. It has the wet descent, the longest flat section (that x-wind paved bit over the cobbles on the front) and the shortest climb.

The question is why he was so slow (9th fastest) in the second section. This section is exactly the same as the fourth section. Everybody else did similar times (within 10 seconds) on the first and second laps but Cancellara did that section 34 seconds slower on the first lap. On the second lap he does it about as fast as you'd expect compared to the rest. Normally you'd just say it was a crash or mechanical but we didn't see that

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Chris Boardman stated that over 10k he had made up 24 seconds.... and that was remarkable...said it was a pity we didnt see that section of the course

The section where he makes up the most time (the 3rd section) is the section where you'd expect him to make up the most time. It has the wet descent, the longest flat section (that x-wind paved bit over the cobbles on the front) and the shortest climb.

The question is why he was so slow (9th fastest) in the second section. This section is exactly the same as the fourth section. Everybody else did similar times (within 10 seconds) on the first and second laps but Cancellara did that section 34 seconds slower on the first lap. On the second lap he does it about as fast as you'd expect compared to the rest. Normally you'd just say it was a crash or mechanical but we didn't see that

On this downhill section, if I could ride like him, I would go cautiously the first time and, with the roads drying a little, do a reconnaissance for the second lap. Then on the second lap I would, if I could, descend more freely, as I'll bet Cancellara did, but only where he had previously found it to be safe enough. He did seem to be riding with great assurance and panache on the technical parts of the course. What would you do? Might it not mean a big difference between the two lap times?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

Chris Boardman stated that over 10k he had made up 24 seconds.... and that was remarkable...said it was a pity we didnt see that section of the course

The section where he makes up the most time (the 3rd section) is the section where you'd expect him to make up the most time. It has the wet descent, the longest flat section (that x-wind paved bit over the cobbles on the front) and the shortest climb.

The question is why he was so slow (9th fastest) in the second section. This section is exactly the same as the fourth section. Everybody else did similar times (within 10 seconds) on the first and second laps but Cancellara did that section 34 seconds slower on the first lap. On the second lap he does it about as fast as you'd expect compared to the rest. Normally you'd just say it was a crash or mechanical but we didn't see that

On this downhill section, if I could ride like him, I would go cautiously the first time and, with the roads drying a little, do a reconnaissance for the second lap. Then on the second lap I would, if I could, descend more freely, as I'll bet Cancellara did, but only where he had previously found it to be safe enough. He did seem to be riding with great assurance and panache on the technical parts of the course. What would you do? Might it not mean a big difference between the two lap times?

That could maybe explain a few seconds and indeed Froome and Dumoulin were 7-8 seconds on faster on that section on the 2nd lap. Most of the others were same or slower though. Note that the descent in this section looked fairly dry on both laps for the favourites. It was the other descent which was very wet and I would think a lot more selective

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

...

However, have you ever contemplated the question of how you would instal a motor in a downtube that has an oval or elipse-shaped hole in the downtube, rather than a neat round hole? Would you cut a hole somewhere else and have it refinished by a carbon specialist? Or get Trek to build a motor in? Or mess about with wheel magnets etc? It's clearly not an easy matter and I just don't see how it is practicable. It's not enough to say that is naive to think it's impossible. Those who propound the practicality should say how it was done.

If they can't do this against Cancellara (or anyone else who may be in question) they should shut up. The Belgian girl's outfit was a piece of cake to understand compared with this problem.

Yikes, 1999 all over again. Those who say Lance dopes should say how he is doping or shut up.

Let me help you as to how this works.

If we were talking about a road bike with a conventional frame I have no problems in seeing how it is possible.

You (and prior to that someone else) says Cancellara was using a motor.

I ask how that could be - how would you fit one in his particular bike?

You can't say but still believe you are right despite having no knowledge on this so you invoke the USPS meme.

You can't answer or you would do so. Therefore I don't believe you know and you are the naive one, not me.

Best to live in the world of practicalities rather than dogma.

My wild speculation is that hub motors are the new hotness. From everything I've looked at it would be very feasible for someone with a bit of extra cash to develop and build a hub/freehub motor that would give you an extra 40-50 Watts. Battery and electronics stuffed in the frame and ring contacts at the dropout. Swap the wheel in and out with no visible differences.

John Swanson

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
My wild speculation is that hub motors are the new hotness. From everything I've looked at it would be very feasible for someone with a bit of extra cash to develop and build a hub/freehub motor that would give you an extra 40-50 Watts. Battery and electronics stuffed in the frame and ring contacts at the dropout. Swap the wheel in and out with no visible differences.

John Swanson

I love it when you talk like this.

 

[Tienus]

http://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes/ciclismo/2016-07-30/dopaje-mecanico-ciclismo-bicicletas-con-motor_1240466/

Unfortunately my Spanish is not good enough to fully understand the article. Anyone care to translate, I'm espescially interested in this bit:

El ingeniero húngaro advierte de que este tipo de conexiones son habituales. “El problema es que lo quieren esconder, la UCI manipula a la opinión pública a través de los medios y tiene influencias con las autoridades. Ellos deciden hasta donde se puede llegar y a quién señalar, te volverías loco si supieras la cantidad de ciclistas que están utilizando motores mucho más rudimentales que los míos”, sentencia Varjas.

 

[sniper]

Re:

http://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes/ciclismo/2016-07-30/dopaje-mecanico-ciclismo-bicicletas-con-motor_1240466/

Unfortunately my Spanish is not good enough to fully understand the article. Anyone care to translate, I'm espescially interested in this bit:

El ingeniero húngaro advierte de que este tipo de conexiones son habituales. “El problema es que lo quieren esconder, la UCI manipula a la opinión pública a través de los medios y tiene influencias con las autoridades. Ellos deciden hasta donde se puede llegar y a quién señalar, te volverías loco si supieras la cantidad de ciclistas que están utilizando motores mucho más rudimentales que los míos”, sentencia Varjas.

Good read.. It's not all new information (some of the stuff Varjas says we've heard a few times before), but it's a good summary.
Several photos in there of UCI staff scanning bikes with their magic tablet.

There is also more in there on the electromagnetic wheel that Varjas claims is already in use. Among other things he says military equipment is being used to fabricate them. (Was that in the Gazetta article? Dunno)

The bit you selected is Varjas saying that
"the UCI want to hide it [motors], they manipulate public opinion through the media and they influence the authorities. They decide until where one can go [with motors] and whom to single out. You'd go crazy if you knew the number of cyclists that are using motors of a much more rudimentary type than mine".

Of course it all hinges a bit on how much cred one is willing to give Varjas. However, his claim that the UCI are enabling and covering up motorfraud seems indisputable by now.

 

[Tienus]

I was searching for info on bike inspection during the olympics. According to this article there where only two i pads, no thermal heat or x-ray.

http://www.n-tv.de/sport/olympia/Stuerze-Drama-Motor-Doping-article18373411.html

I like that Mark Barfield is called UCI-Motorexperte instead of UCI technical manager.

 

[Tienus]

Thanks Sniper.

I do not remember Varjas being this outspoken about the UCI before.
He also mentions a conflict whit Typhoon while he worked for them.

 

[sniper]

indeed.

Typhoon boss Gibbins of course in denial:

"The UCI has nothing to do with this, they work hard against fraud with our collaboration. I believe KAthy and her husband Greg were in negotioations with Varjas and were hoping that their bike would appear on TV".

 

[sniper]

Agreed.
The fraud and uci involvement is pretty tough to deny here.
Btw Vargas seems a talkative bloke.
If he's lying and thus falsely smearing the reputation of cycling why aren't UCI suing his ass?

Something else: as oufeh noted on Twitter, Froom e seems to making use of unbranded wheels in key mountain stages.
Like Primos Roglic.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Re:

Agreed.
The fraud and uci involvement is pretty tough to deny here.
Btw Vargas seems a talkative bloke.
If he's lying and thus falsely smearing the reputation of cycling why aren't UCI suing his ***?

Something else: as oufeh noted on Twitter, Froom e seems to making use of unbranded wheels in key mountain stages.
Like Primos Roglic.

Unbranded wheels some days branded wheels the next. If anything the mechanic groupies have a big thing for making sure any branding is polished, clear to see and in good shape. I have never come across a mechanic disposed in the other direction. So that requires one hell of a stretch to lay it at the door of the people preparing the bike.

Will it stop happening ? Now that would be very interesting.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

...
My wild speculation is that hub motors are the new hotness. From everything I've looked at it would be very feasible for someone with a bit of extra cash to develop and build a hub/freehub motor that would give you an extra 40-50 Watts. Battery and electronics stuffed in the frame and ring contacts at the dropout. Swap the wheel in and out with no visible differences.

John Swanson

I love it when you talk like this.

How much heat would a system like that generate just out of interest?

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

...
My wild speculation is that hub motors are the new hotness. From everything I've looked at it would be very feasible for someone with a bit of extra cash to develop and build a hub/freehub motor that would give you an extra 40-50 Watts. Battery and electronics stuffed in the frame and ring contacts at the dropout. Swap the wheel in and out with no visible differences.

John Swanson

I love it when you talk like this.

How much heat would a system like that generate just out of interest?

After looking around the web, the efficiency of a geared dc motor is ~65% which means that a 40 Watt hub motor would generate ~20 Watts of heat. Not a huge amount of heat to dissipate, but would definitely be detectable via a FLIR camera.

John Swanson

 

[Beech Mtn]

The UCI are going to have to let someone other than just Froome ride with a motor. The racing (especially in July) needs to be more contested.

Preferably not Quintana to get the motor. He's too conservative. It needs to go to an attacking rider. Bring back Ricco and give him the free pass + motor. Then we'll have a race. Alternatively, they can let the prince buy a motor for Nibs. This also would work.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Contador was ambushed after yesterdays stage - officials checking like rabid dogs over his bike. Must have been the way he was right behind Froome when Froome motored up to Quintana with ridiculous ease.

 

[Amnes2015]

With the incoming Vuelta ITT coming, in which the GT will be won by Quintana or Froome depending on ITT performance, what are the chances that someone will risk a motor for the big gain ?

 

[sniper]

Re:

With the incoming Vuelta ITT coming, in which the GT will be won by Quintana or Froome depending on ITT performance, what are the chances that someone will risk a motor for the big gain ?

Cookson has Dave on speed dial.
UCI want Quintana to win this one, because another Froome win will cause too much negative press and uncomfortable questions.
So this one will go to Quintana imo.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re: Re:

So this one will go to Quintana imo.[/quote]

i,d bet you quite a bit of money you,re wrong - Froome wants this one and he,s gone full genius already...doesnt care what the rumours are as he knows he,ll not get caught.

 

[purcell]

How to get mechanical assistance the easy way.

Race bike, right from the factory.

http://www.mcipollini.com/en/bike_mobile#mcm2