Motor doping thread

[sniper]

^that's fair enough and hereby acknowledged (by me at least).
Still, the stairs go up pretty steeply (10%-ish?) and he seemed to have little speed coming out of the curve.
So the guy definitely gets top marks for making this look effortless.

 

[Tom the Engine]

Re:

Still, the stairs go up pretty steeply (10%-ish?) and he seemed to have little speed coming out of the curve.

As said before, this is not relevant at all in assessing such a performance. It's only about geometry of the stairs (combination of step size and spacing) and bunny-hop skills. A bit of speed to start with helps, but too much speed is highly disadvanteous as it would require an infeasibly high hop-frequency.

 

[sniper]

Yeah thats a fair point too, conceded.

 

[adamfo]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

This seems appropriate...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4JwGwwclsXGvxl2LfQPqk58/why-do-our-brains-love-conspiracy-theories

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

This seems appropriate...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4JwGwwclsXGvxl2LfQPqk58/why-do-our-brains-love-conspiracy-theories

I will try to find an article that I read last year about how our brains prefer chaos over calm...

 

[sniper]

Spartacus taking gold sounds about right.
A true pioneer and innovator crowning his career.

 

[carton]

Re:

Spartacus taking gold sounds about right.
A true pioneer and innovator crowning his career.

Well, it puts paid to any suggestions that the swiss clasicomano needed any mechanical assistance.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re: Re:

Spartacus taking gold sounds about right.
A true pioneer and innovator crowning his career.

Well, it puts paid to any suggestions that the swiss clasicomano needed any mechanical assistance.

How do you conclude that ? has done nothing all year and then goes out on Olympic Gold - nothing would stop him going out with that medal - mechanical assistance for sure. Do you really thing they are checking for motors in the Olympics ?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Spartacus taking gold sounds about right.
A true pioneer and innovator crowning his career.

Well, it puts paid to any suggestions that the swiss clasicomano needed any mechanical assistance.

How do you conclude that ? has done nothing all year and then goes out on Olympic Gold - nothing would stop him going out with that medal - mechanical assistance for sure. Do you really thing they are checking for motors in the Olympics ?

You could just take a look at photos of his Trek and consider how you would fit a motor in it. Yeah, very likely.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
You could just take a look at photos of his Trek and consider how you would fit a motor in it. Yeah, very likely.

lol, sounds like a brilliant summary of how UCI go about checking for motors.

 

[Tienus]

His split times are interesting if they are correct.
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=171358
Compared to Dumoulin:
-15s 10k
+23s 10k
-34 15k
-7 10k
-14 10k

 

[sniper]

Re:

His split times are interesting if they are correct.
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=171358

So he starts about 15 secs quicker than Dumoulin.
Then at 19km he's suddenly down 8 secs to Dumoulin.
And then at 34km he's suddenly beating Dumoulin by 28 secs.

Seems somewhere between 19km and 34km he turns on the engine.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

...
You could just take a look at photos of his Trek and consider how you would fit a motor in it. Yeah, very likely.

lol, sounds like a brilliant summary of how UCI go about checking for motors.

I can't speak for them. I know this is a dig, so well done.

However, have you ever contemplated the question of how you would instal a motor in a downtube that has an oval or elipse-shaped hole in the downtube, rather than a neat round hole? Would you cut a hole somewhere else and have it refinished by a carbon specialist? Or get Trek to build a motor in? Or mess about with wheel magnets etc? It's clearly not an easy matter and I just don't see how it is practicable. It's not enough to say that is naive to think it's impossible. Those who propound the practicality should say how it was done.

If they can't do this against Cancellara (or anyone else who may be in question) they should shut up. The Belgian girl's outfit was a piece of cake to understand compared with this problem.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...

However, have you ever contemplated the question of how you would instal a motor in a downtube that has an oval or elipse-shaped hole in the downtube, rather than a neat round hole? Would you cut a hole somewhere else and have it refinished by a carbon specialist? Or get Trek to build a motor in? Or mess about with wheel magnets etc? It's clearly not an easy matter and I just don't see how it is practicable. It's not enough to say that is naive to think it's impossible. Those who propound the practicality should say how it was done.

If they can't do this against Cancellara (or anyone else who may be in question) they should shut up. The Belgian girl's outfit was a piece of cake to understand compared with this problem.

Yikes, 1999 all over again. Those who say Lance dopes should say how he is doping or shut up.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

...

However, have you ever contemplated the question of how you would instal a motor in a downtube that has an oval or elipse-shaped hole in the downtube, rather than a neat round hole? Would you cut a hole somewhere else and have it refinished by a carbon specialist? Or get Trek to build a motor in? Or mess about with wheel magnets etc? It's clearly not an easy matter and I just don't see how it is practicable. It's not enough to say that is naive to think it's impossible. Those who propound the practicality should say how it was done.

If they can't do this against Cancellara (or anyone else who may be in question) they should shut up. The Belgian girl's outfit was a piece of cake to understand compared with this problem.

Yikes, 1999 all over again. Those who say Lance dopes should say how he is doping or shut up.

Let me help you as to how this works.

If we were talking about a road bike with a conventional frame I have no problems in seeing how it is possible.

You (and prior to that someone else) says Cancellara was using a motor.

I ask how that could be - how would you fit one in his particular bike?

You can't say but still believe you are right despite having no knowledge on this so you invoke the USPS meme.

You can't answer or you would do so. Therefore I don't believe you know and you are the naive one, not me.

Best to live in the world of practicalities rather than dogma.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

...

However, have you ever contemplated the question of how you would instal a motor in a downtube that has an oval or elipse-shaped hole in the downtube, rather than a neat round hole? Would you cut a hole somewhere else and have it refinished by a carbon specialist? Or get Trek to build a motor in? Or mess about with wheel magnets etc? It's clearly not an easy matter and I just don't see how it is practicable. It's not enough to say that is naive to think it's impossible. Those who propound the practicality should say how it was done.

If they can't do this against Cancellara (or anyone else who may be in question) they should shut up. The Belgian girl's outfit was a piece of cake to understand compared with this problem.

Yikes, 1999 all over again. Those who say Lance dopes should say how he is doping or shut up.

Let me help you as to how this works.

If we were talking about a road bike with a conventional frame I have no problems in seeing how it is possible.

You (and prior to that someone else) says Cancellara was using a motor.

I ask how that could be - how would you fit one in his particular bike?

You can't say but still believe you are right despite having no knowledge on this so you invoke the USPS meme.

You can't answer or you would do so. Therefore I don't believe you know and you are the naive one, not me.

Best to live in the world of practicalities rather than dogma.

If you are arguing that Cancellara couldn't possibly have used a motor, I think that ship has,sailed.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

...

However, have you ever contemplated the question of how you would instal a motor in a downtube that has an oval or elipse-shaped hole in the downtube, rather than a neat round hole? Would you cut a hole somewhere else and have it refinished by a carbon specialist? Or get Trek to build a motor in? Or mess about with wheel magnets etc? It's clearly not an easy matter and I just don't see how it is practicable. It's not enough to say that is naive to think it's impossible. Those who propound the practicality should say how it was done.

If they can't do this against Cancellara (or anyone else who may be in question) they should shut up. The Belgian girl's outfit was a piece of cake to understand compared with this problem.

Yikes, 1999 all over again. Those who say Lance dopes should say how he is doping or shut up.

Let me help you as to how this works.

If we were talking about a road bike with a conventional frame I have no problems in seeing how it is possible.

You (and prior to that someone else) says Cancellara was using a motor.

I ask how that could be - how would you fit one in his particular bike?

You can't say but still believe you are right despite having no knowledge on this so you invoke the USPS meme.

You can't answer or you would do so. Therefore I don't believe you know and you are the naive one, not me.

Best to live in the world of practicalities rather than dogma.

If you are arguing that Cancellara couldn't possibly have used a motor, I think that ship has,sailed.

I take it you don't know how to get one in this frame either, or what method he may have used?

 

[sniper]

you don't know how he does it, and therefore you dismiss it.

so youre using your own knowledge of motorization as standard for the propeloton.

sounds legit.

that's been Pats and Verbruggens argument for years. "There's no way for Lance to beat the tests. It just cannot be done".

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

you don't know how he does it, and therefore you dismiss it.

so youre using your own knowledge of motorization as standard for the propeloton.

sounds legit.

that's been Pats and Verbruggens argument for years. "There's no way for Lance to beat the tests. It just cannot be done".

I don't dismiss it if anyone can explain it - have you looked at the photos of this event? You imagine it is possible. Fair enough - we will have to agree to differ until someone does come up with an explanation of how to adapt such a frame. This just illustrates our different viewpoints - you don't care whether what you allege is likely from the viewpoint of practicality. You elevate professional cyclists and their teams to the realms of motor-doping gods who can do magic.

 

[sniper]

I wouldn't say he used a motor for this particular race. I honestly have no idea.
But in case you missed it, insinuations about Cance using a motor are totally justified.
He pretty definitely used one in 2010 and got away with it.
That doesn't mean he used one yesterday, I know.
I liked Tienus' point about the split times. It's an interesting data point and since this a discussion forum, who knows others might chime in and provide additional data points. If not, the insinuation will die a peaceful death.
Thanks to the UCI we can't be sure about anything. Maybe it's time you start addressing that, rather than hide behind some huge wall of gullibility.

 

[sniper]

and as for the feasibility question, see MarkVW's post and discussions throughout this thread and other motorization threads.

 

[King Of Molehill]

Re: Re:

His split times are interesting if they are correct.
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=171358

So he starts about 15 secs quicker than Dumoulin.
Then at 19km he's suddenly down 8 secs to Dumoulin.
And then at 34km he's suddenly beating Dumoulin by 28 secs.

Seems somewhere between 19km and 34km he turns on the engine.

I didn't watch but looking at the profile, the segment in question was up and over the first real lump in the course. They all started relatively close to each other so must have all faced similar conditions. I heard it was wet and windy so is it possible that he made up a load of time with a killer decent and Dumoulin was taking it a bit easier for fear of busting himself up again?. Whatever happened to cause that much of a swing between those two guys should be fairly obvious. Stopping for a bike change wouldn't have caused that much of a difference if done well enough.

 

[carton]

Look, if he used a motor yesterday, then he has balls the size of grapefruits, and he doesn't need a motor, because of all of the excess testosterone those would produce. QED.

 

[DanielSong39]

If Cancellara used a motor yesterday, it was still a lot less epic than his performances in the 2010 Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix.

 

[sniper]

all fair points, for sure.