Motor doping thread

[noddy69]

Re: Re:

That's why I thought if it was like an big rig or big rv that you can drive through with the scanners on each side and the roof to scan all the bikes at the same time and than drive to the next stage

The electronic tags are cool too.

You can’t drive through, you’d need fairly high energy x-rays so you can’t have people in it every time you do it. You’d need them to get out. Also, not every frame and wheel is carried on/in the cars so you’d need to make it big enough to drive the trucks through unless everything is going to get wheeled in and out. It would be a logistical nightmare.

What would be good is if they scanned the top 3 on the stage, the top 3 on GT and the teams of the top 3 on GT. Expand it out to the helpers. The top 3s can be done while they are in anti-doping control and the team makes as they come in. It’s a maximum of 27 bikes (24 for teams and GC top 3 and max 3 more for stage winners).

Interestingly, I just read about such a scanner in a completely unrelated subject. In the port of Boston they recently installed some of these devices to control the imported goods without actually having to access and test them diectly. They detect the secondary x-rays which are characteristic for every element with what it is possible to e.g. distinguish white powder from white powder..
To get back to topic, there are actually x-ray scanners which are big enough to accomodate whole trucks but they are of course stationary at port exit. I suspect it could be tricky to make those trasportable, however, if you managed to do that, the teams could just drive their cars and trucks through the scanner in the morning and head off to the race while some people analyze the data.
The story I read was in the current National Geographic magazine, by the way (April 2018, at least in Germany).

Could they not just tag the bikes (possibly with gps trrackers) so that if there is suspicion they can test individual bikes. If they had to have GPS tagging on the day of the race then would hinder any tampering as you could potentially track a bikes movements. Would have stopped the movistar fiasco.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Terpstra riding with Cancellara's bike? :lol:

 

[therealthing]

QSF deploying motors in droves this year after they worked wonders for Gilbert in last year's RVV.

 

[red_flanders]

So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.

 

[thehog]

Re:

So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.

Agreed. Gilbert from 55km out, yes, NT with under 20km, no.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.

Agreed. Gilbert from 55km out, yes, NT with under 20km, no.

Indeed. Seeing Gilbert do that was hilarious given how he normally wins races

NT's effort today is exactly how he normally wins races. Not saying he's clean. But it passes the sniff test

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.

Agreed. Gilbert from 55km out, yes, NT with under 20km, no.

Indeed. Seeing Gilbert do that was hilarious given how he normally wins races

NT's effort today is exactly how he normally wins races. Not saying he's clean. But it passes the sniff test

Gilbert was mental last year... just mental

 

[red_flanders]

Museeuw launched atacks from that far out with good old fashioned dope in much harder races. I don’t know that Gilbert had a motor. Maybe, it’s entirely possible, but I don’t see any evidence of it.

 

[Bardamu]

Not entirely moto doping related, but yesterday in the Flemish program De Kleedkamer Nick Nuyens, Scheirlinckx, Boonen and Leukemans all said how Cancellara was not well liked in the peloton and thought he was the patron while the rest didn't like it. Boonen said "ask any of his former teammates, almost nobody likes him. You rarely see this."

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

Not entirely moto doping related, but yesterday in the Flemish program De Kleedkamer Nick Nuyens, Scheirlinckx, Boonen and Leukemans all said how Cancellara was not well liked in the peloton and thought he was the patron while the rest didn't like it. Boonen said "ask any of his former teammates, almost nobody likes him. You rarely see this."

Interesting. Not surprised, as his antics on a particular rain-soaked descent, among other incidents where he was whining and purporting to speak for the entire peloton (and clearly wasn't) turned me off of him.

 

[Bardamu]

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.

He’d be an idiot not to. Interesting that he’s public with it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.

Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes. That's just a statement of the bleeding obvious: there is doubt, look at the amount of chatter here and elsewhere about it. He then says that, as the guy who finished second, it's not for him to comment. Could you perhaps be putting words into his mouth?

 

[proffate]

Re: Re:

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.

Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes.

I for one fail to understand the distinction youre making

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.

Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes. That's just a statement of the bleeding obvious: there is doubt, look at the amount of chatter here and elsewhere about it. He then says that, as the guy who finished second, it's not for him to comment. Could you perhaps be putting words into his mouth?

Oh I know he also said that as the guy who finished second it is not for him to comment and that he probably just answered some questions. But some years ago he always answered with "Cancellara was just stronger, I don't want to hear about these allegations" but apparently his doubts have increased.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.

Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes. That's just a statement of the bleeding obvious: there is doubt, look at the amount of chatter here and elsewhere about it. He then says that, as the guy who finished second, it's not for him to comment. Could you perhaps be putting words into his mouth?

Oh I know he also said that as the guy who finished second it is not for him to comment and that he probably just answered some questions. But some years ago he always answered with "Cancellara was just stronger, I don't want to hear about these allegations" but apparently his doubts have increased.

Again, you are putting words into the man's mouth and hearing what you want to hear. Nowhere does he say he has doubts. He acknowledges that other people have doubts: one more time for you, that's just a statement of the bleeding obvious, as anyone who reads any cycling media would have to admit.

 

[Bardamu]

Maybe you're right and I'm making too much of a relatively neutral comment.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Maybe you're right and I'm making too much of a relatively neutral answer.

Bingo...

 

[delgado]

Re: Re:

Nowhere does he say he has doubts. He acknowledges that other people have doubts: one more time for you, that's just a statement of the bleeding obvious, as anyone who reads any cycling media would have to admit.

Do you speak french? Here's the verbatim quote from the article:
"Cancellara m’a-t-il volé le Ronde 2010 grâce à un moteur ? Ai-je un doute ? Oui… mais ce n’est pas à moi de le dire. C’est très difficile à prouver parce qu’on n’a plus le vélo pour vérifier…"

 

[Tonton]

So Netserk was right...overrated.

Tough to prove, but when a competitor calls you out...it's serious.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

RTBF: Are there motors in bikes, in professional cycling ?
Boonen: Now? No.
RTBF: Were there ever before?
Boonen: It's possible. It's possible.
RTBF: There is this incredible image we all have, from 2013 [sic]*, when Fabian Cancellara dropped you on the Muur - on that day, did you say to yourself "Someone has stolen my Ronde van Vlaanderen from me"? Do you have some doubts?
Boonen: Yes, but it's not for me to say. When you come in second place, it's not for the second-place person to say whether something is not normal. But, it's something very difficult to say, because it's not possible... uh, the bike is gone. So it's not as if...
RTBF: We can't test it, because it's too late.
Boonen: Yes.

Thanx for the clarification. My response was based purely on the article Bardamu had linked to and claimed said something I don't feel it did.

 

[ClassicomanoLuigi]

All of the Belgian cyclists interviewed in these recent videos have something unfavorable to say about Cancellara: that he was vain, pompous, thought he was a bit better than anyone else, expected special treatments, etc. And Boonen himself said "[Cancellara's] teammates don't speak well of him"

So one could read between the lines to try to figure why these guys trash Cancellara in retirement, after the facts. Maybe just that they always resented Cancellara somewhat, and now that they're retired and don't have to deal with him directly, speak their minds

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

All of the Belgian cyclists interviewed in these recent videos have something unfavorable to say about Cancellara: that he was vain, pompous, thought he was a bit better than anyone else, expected special treatments, etc. And Boonen himself said "[Cancellara's] teammates don't speak well of him"

So one could read between the lines to try to figure why these guys trash Cancellara in retirement, after the facts. Maybe just that they always resented Cancellara somewhat, and now that they're retired and don't have to deal with him directly, speak their minds

But doesn't everybody say he was vain now? Wasn't it one of the Schlecks made the comment about how he'd moan about towels?

Edit: it was Andy Schleck

"He is a special character. He is very loud. He needs a lot of attention. He is a drama queen. He is a diva. He needs his special things. How is he like a diva? He would be covered in dirt and mud and *** after winning Roubaix, and he would be in the shower, and yell out that the towels were not soft enough."

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

But doesn't everybody say he was vain now?

The Schleck comments were a while ago, and he was sort of half-joking
In this interview the Belgian cyclists kind of dissed Cancellara
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.3173127

"Everybody would like to think that Cancellara is super-nice - but in the peloton he was arrogant"

And they told a story about refusing to give Cancellara a bidon when he was "desperately" thirsty and looking for a source of water. In other words he was annoying enough that there was no love lost between them

Boonen was happy to allow the "motor doping" rumors to persist by saying that he's not sure himself whether Cancellara used a motor in the 2010 Ronde. Then the media have repeatedly misquoted Boonen and blown that up into more than what he literally said. Maybe later Boonen will 'clarify' in order to downplay the subject or maybe he will just let it stand at that

Love the bit about PhilGil getting a bidon of Holy water from the chapel on the Muur...

 

[LeakyBoat]

Re: Re:

The worst thing is I only know the name as I was looking for the shortest discovery to prize time frame I could find. Turns out that earlier prizes had a quicker turn around but I think the fastest was the Physics prize in 1957 won by Lee and Yang. Lee has a few other records for youngest post-war science prize, youngest American (naturalised after winning) and first Chinese (along with Yang). Complete science nerd.

This is about as off-topic as a mod should be going I think!

I will admit that I couldn't remember what it was killed Curie and Googled and saw Röntgen's name but went with Curie as she was more famous. And I think I may actually have been thinking of the English DNA scientist, Rosalind Franklin, when I thought x-ray poisoning killed Curie.

A BBC documentary of a few years ago said that when Marie Curie's body was exhumed prior to re-interment in the Panthéon in 2015 it was tested for radiation. The conclusion was that there was insufficient residual radiation for it to have killed her and it was more likely that X-Rays were the cause of her death.