Think in the Ghost Podcast he contacted all the Race Organisers to see how many tests were done and the results were significantly less than the UCI claimed - including not 1 bike being tested in either of the 2023 Giro ITTs.
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There's a man going around checking for motors at the Vuelta - on Facebook at UCI checking for motors.
After watching the Netflix docu and seeing Grischa Niermann answer the doping questions and seeing Jonas' reaction of his TTT (like "I was crazy quick on the flat"), I am really intrigued by the motor doping theory. What if Jumbo preps like the TTT bikes with some fancy new mega next level motor, that is undetectable, just for a few watts, and doesn't even tells it to the riders. That would be insane. But watch Grischa wenn he says "I would have to kill you" for the what's your secret ... I mean, he is no actor, his whole expression just looked super akward.
Just dropping it. It's a theory,,,
Just dropping it. It's a theory,,,
is Visma the USAF or USSF where it only lets the public know about 40 year old crap, while keeping their actual abilities secret or something?
Nicholas Raudenski gets his snitch program - is there talk in the peloton?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uc...owers-pro-riders-banned-from-under-23-worlds/
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uc...owers-pro-riders-banned-from-under-23-worlds/
They do and often (see https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...ests-for-technological-fraud-and-anti-doping/ for example), but have n't found even a AA battery yet.
Maybe this is turning into one of those great "bogey men" scares that keep a few people in well paid jobs and always the threat of a possibility that someone stupid enough to try racing with a motor, will keep the UCI busy and "fighting the good fight" - "never found a motor!"
if they're looking for informants and offering a reward then they must know something is out there
That is my take. Like, if testing the bikes works so well, then what is the issue? Or is it the scourge of local masters racing cheats they are trying to nail? Because that group just takes good old fashion drugs
Either that or it's one big distraction from guys and gals using the latest "rocket fuel" and WADA have no test for it. I can think of a few wealthy teams who might be willing to donate to the UCI's anti-motor doping crusade.
Cue some low level Belgian rider gets busted, and somebody gets $5000 US.
I don't follow the UCI's diligence on All Things about Cheating...but I don't recall them offering anyone incentives to bust drug programs. Maybe because the drugs land them in jail and the motors don't run afoul of any current legal violations?
You could sue a rider and team for fraud with moto doping but that's a stretch for financial recovery.
How about offering promoters a reward for no crashes on their courses involving road furniture or heinously unmarked, off-camber corners?
WADA and the NDOs are the people involved with "incentives" for drug infringements. This becomes quickly something for law enforcement.
OK; but drugs used within national laws that aren't prescribed or legally distributed becomes the basis for prosecution. Sporting fraud requires a like violation of accepted laws, usually confirmed by accepted testing.
E bikes are legal. Motors are legal. They already pretend to test bikes for the presence in competition and ban riders that are "caught". The follow up for meaningful punishment is sporting fraud and fines related to competitive licensing charters for pros. This would suggest, under current governing practices that an informant would be rewarded for advance or solid evidence of use in competition. They'd still have to test the bikes.
I guess it seems complicated to "sting" a competitor with a situational enforcement unless an informant knows in advance or testing is improved. The ripest area for cheating would seem to be where we see many caught: amateur racing, particularly masters racing. You'd probably find many in gran fondos as well.
The reality seems to be mostly window dressing.
Does anyone here know (and forgive me if it has been covered), but how many countries have a sporting fraud law that would cover mechanical doping? My understanding was that quite a few countries could only prosecute pharmacological doping on public health grounds - which was really chasing the team doctor and or manager more so than the athlete.
Some of the performances this year point towards motors, and I don't see the UCI wanting to find or bring that to light. I'm just wondering at what point police will get involved and what evidence they would such as real time heat sensitive camera footage. Maybe the lack of health risk to individual makes it less important to them, or there is not enough direct evidence to pursue it.
Some of the performances this year point towards motors, and I don't see the UCI wanting to find or bring that to light. I'm just wondering at what point police will get involved and what evidence they would such as real time heat sensitive camera footage. Maybe the lack of health risk to individual makes it less important to them, or there is not enough direct evidence to pursue it.
As a bike with a motor is not illegal, outside of competitions, there's no problem riding one. In competitions riders and teams agree to abide by the UCI rules and so the UCI act as police, judge and jury. In theory an appeal to CAS is possible but what sort of defence could be plausible - "I didn't know I had a motor in the bike, I just thought I was on a good day"?
UCI came up with rules and fines for "technological fraud" back in 2015 - see https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-introduces-new-sanctions-against-motorised-doping/
UCI came up with rules and fines for "technological fraud" back in 2015 - see https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-introduces-new-sanctions-against-motorised-doping/
Avoiding a check also occurs fines - https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7g...guide-of-the-uci-technical-regulation-eng.pdf
Doesn’t that necessarily vary by country? PED use itself can be prosecuted in France, Germany, and I forget which other countries. It’s not a criminal offense in other countries like the U.S., since most doping products are not controlled substances. Prosecution for fraud is possible but it would have to be in a grand scale, not just individual use.
I guess what I'm wondering in is whether or not the police in any country would take an interest in motor doping. The UCI can sanction a rider but the likelihood of being caught and or punishment may not act as a realistic deterrent (as we know from pharmacological doping). However, we do know that police involvement can lead to riders being sanctioned for doping even in the absence of a positive test, for example. The threat of prison is probably far more effective than a ban that may get reduced or even quashed on appeal.
I also feel that drug and motor testing catches one at a time, lending itself to an ethos of scapegoating. Law enforcement will often look wider and therefore uncover more systematic team-wide actions, with a better chance of team managers being made accountable. Like pharmacological doping, the use of motors requires several people in the team structure to be complicit and all face sanction.
I also feel that drug and motor testing catches one at a time, lending itself to an ethos of scapegoating. Law enforcement will often look wider and therefore uncover more systematic team-wide actions, with a better chance of team managers being made accountable. Like pharmacological doping, the use of motors requires several people in the team structure to be complicit and all face sanction.
Yet...
How Olympics Officials Try to Catch "Motor Doping"
At the Paris games, cyclists will have their bikes tested for hidden motors
spectrum.ieee.org
'Getting away with it is shockingly easy': Five reasons why motor doping suspicions won't go away
Having spent over a year investigating motor doping, Chris Marshall-Bell examines the rumours and unanswered questions that remain
www.cyclingweekly.com
Armchair Cyclist
Moderator
People interested in this thread who have not been looking at the Pogacar-Giannetti thread for the last couple of days might find that interesting. The link is to page 288 which is about where it starts.
That is somewhat the reason why I asked about the possibility of police involvement. Other than Armstrong, I've never heard of a rider actively "whistleblowing" on others. But if Pogacar continues with these miraculous performances, wouldn't somebody eventually get annoyed enough to try and provoke action and investigation?
Was going to post this as a reply in the Pogacar thread:
X-ray machines are not the best weapon against motor doping - physical inspections are.
Doesn't the UCI visually inspect the bike of the stage winner and yellow jersey holder after each stage? I still don't see how even a small motor could be hidden from a trained eye? Pretty sure the UCI has the right to dismantle bottom brackets, the most likely place to install a concealed motor - even 20 watts?
But I am beginning to wonder if all the UCI measures to clamp down on any possibility of motor doping (including X-ray machines and heat detectors) is really a smoke screen to avoid physical bike checks? If a trained mechanic pulls apart bottom brackets or even inspects wheels for evidence of magnetic boost I don't believe that could be concealed from a trained eye - impossible. And remember they don't have to inspect every bike, only the stage winner and yellow jersey holder. So it should not be an onerous task for the UCI to police.
X-ray machines are not the best weapon against motor doping - physical inspections are.
Doesn't the UCI visually inspect the bike of the stage winner and yellow jersey holder after each stage? I still don't see how even a small motor could be hidden from a trained eye? Pretty sure the UCI has the right to dismantle bottom brackets, the most likely place to install a concealed motor - even 20 watts?
But I am beginning to wonder if all the UCI measures to clamp down on any possibility of motor doping (including X-ray machines and heat detectors) is really a smoke screen to avoid physical bike checks? If a trained mechanic pulls apart bottom brackets or even inspects wheels for evidence of magnetic boost I don't believe that could be concealed from a trained eye - impossible. And remember they don't have to inspect every bike, only the stage winner and yellow jersey holder. So it should not be an onerous task for the UCI to police.
If the UCI rely on X-Ray machines and heat detectors then yes of course its shockingly easy. But if they physically inspect stage winner's bikes and dismantle bottom brackets I say its impossible to conceal even a 20W motor.'Getting away with it is shockingly easy': Five reasons why motor doping suspicions won't go away
Having spent over a year investigating motor doping, Chris Marshall-Bell examines the rumours and unanswered questions that remain
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