Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Galic Ho]

Re:

Quintana is being criticized because he had a below-par performance. A par performance would've put him 2-3 minutes ahead of the pack going into the final ITT and he would've held on.

I don't think he has much of a chance in the Tour but a top-3 finish is a reasonable expectation. If he somehow wins, I guarantee that most of the criticisms will disappear and he will be considered to be an all-time great.

Next couple of years is key though. It will determine whether he becomes a Contador/Froome/Nibali level superstar or closer to the Sastre/Evans/Andy Schleck level. But you can't fault him for banging his head against the Sky train - you never know; Froome may crash out or suffer an inexplicable loss of form, throwing the race wide open.

Then again it's also possible that someone like Dumoulin or Aru or someone else to emerge as a mega superstar. We shall see!

Andy was lazy at the other grand tours and outside of Liege, didn't really make much of a mark. But he was very consistent at the Tour. So that comparison, in light of only their Tour palmares stands.

Sastre was very consistent from 2008 into 2009. A win, and 2 successive podium places at the Vuelta and Giro was not bad. Plus he made some really great moves in the 2009 Giro when the Menchov vs The Killer Da Luca epic struggle was going gang busters.

Cadel had a few Tour second places, a Vuelta podium and a Giro podium along with solid stage race results and classic wins + a world championship.

But to date, Nairo Quintana has a better Palmares than all of them. And he is only 28. Cadel only managed an 8th place in the 2005 Tour when he was 28. By age 30 he finally had a grand tour podium.

Yeah, Nairo has this one in the bag.

He wins almost every stage race he enters and either wins or makes the podium in EVERY grand tour he races. He is the most consistent rider in the professional peloton to date, after Sagan and Valverde. Their end of season rankings proves it. He is SUPER consistent even when he is sick and not firing; he still performs.

 

[tristecsinamigos]

Re:

He is the marcel kittel of climbs. He isn't good at nothing apart from climbing. And he is only good because of his natural weight being around 55 kg, just like kittel that he is only good because of his 86 kg

x 100.

I already said this one time, I really beleive colombians tend to peak very early in their careers. Since 2013, I can't see real development on him (physical ability). Of course he is more experient, he is smarter but not really stronger.

Like who? and what would that make any sense? For one, Colombian riders are perhaps the most "ethnically" diverse in the peloton, and the ones coming from the most varied geographical environments and socioeconomic backgrounds (because of the country's inequality). Why would their nationality make them peak earlier?

 

[Escarabajo]

I hate that Quintana always tries to pull the sickness card. Not the first time.

Similar response as many other riders as well.

 

[Bardamu]

Re:

Yes, he said he was sick the day they climbed Piancavallo. He looked very bad that day and tried zip and nada despite Dumoulin being in huge problems, so it might be true, but I don't really buy it. As DFA said, its what Contador always says when he isn't performing up to expectations and thats annoying in the long run.

Surprised he didn't just say he was under par in the last week due to the crash, that would been have fair.

I liked what Dumoulin said during the Vuelta 2015 when he started to get sick. It is a result of having gone too deep in earlier days and thus is not bad luck and just a logical physical reaction.

 

[Escarabajo]

In the Colombian outlets they have him with the following:

"No sabemos si se podría haber hecho mejor o peor, pero estamos en el podio, que es lo importante. Dumoulin no era el rival principal y sin embargo nos acabó batiendo a todos. Fue muy fuerte en las cronos, supo resistir en montaña y merece este triunfo"

Basically accepting defeat to a great rival like Dumoulin. Depends on how you put words into context.

 

[staubsauger]

Maybe we should just stop with that “the new Pantani“ hail? He ain't and even if he was the copy is never better than the original. Pantani was unique in talent and raced during a very special era. Let's just accept that fact and suddenly Quintana is a very good rider with an excellent palmares. No need to expect pirate like things from him all the time. It's unrealistic.

 

[Escarabajo]

I never compare Pantani with anyone. Different times!

 

[Tonton]

Different times...

No, he' s no Pantani. But he's a great rider. Nairo Quintana maybe underestimated the Giro-Tour double, a bit cocky, thinking that he could soft-pedal and win the Giro. He was prepared for Nibali, but Nairito didn't see Dumoulin coming. Who did? Not even Dumoulin according to his reactions.

The problem is: Quintana spent a lot of energy, Froome will be fresh and have Thomas...yikes. Maybe the "second place is not good" thing will summarize Nairo's 2017 campaign.

I still believe in him. Hecan beat Froome at the Tour. one day. But forget the Pantani comparison...

 

[aarononymous]

I've lost a bit of sympathy for Nairo with all his excuses and also his speech after this race.

Nibali: "Dumoulin was the strongest and is a deserved winner". (even if he might think different, that's what he said).

Quintana: "Allies helped Dumoulin a lot and I was sick".

Meh. Not the first time. I liked him so much, now I have actually more respect for Nibali.

He was always gracious to Dumoulin at the end of the later stages. They asked him if he was sick and he said he had a fever towards the end. Whether that's true or not I'm not sure. To quote him as making that statement is a bit childish.

 

[hrotha]

I don't think it's childish. It's significant that Unzue implied pretty much the same thing (he said Dumoulin was "lucky", presumably referring to the fact that Jungels et al helped him rather than to his losing 2 minutes over a turd).

 

[hfer07]

I've lost a bit of sympathy for Nairo with all his excuses and also his speech after this race.

Nibali: "Dumoulin was the strongest and is a deserved winner". (even if he might think different, that's what he said).

Quintana: "Allies helped Dumoulin a lot and I was sick".

Meh. Not the first time. I liked him so much, now I have actually more respect for Nibali.

Link? source?

I can only assure for the fever part, which Nairo himself said various times in the final post-race interviews, BUT I still have to hear/read when he said Dumo won because of the help while Nairo being sick.

fact checking does not hurt

 

[dacooley]

what objectivity are we entitled to expect from a rider who gave it all for the victory? needless to say, nairo feels wounded by losing the giro so narrowly and tries to give it probable explanations (excuses). admitting that dimoulin won rightfully and there was no luck is like accepting movistar themselves got really lucky on formigal stage where tinkov-saxo did an immense amount of work. not going to happen. almost everyone's willing to attribute his own win to sheer power and one's to kind of luck. it's all about human nature.

 

[Climbing]

Different times...

No, he' s no Pantani. But he's a great rider. Nairo Quintana maybe underestimated the Giro-Tour double, a bit cocky, thinking that he could soft-pedal and win the Giro. He was prepared for Nibali, but Nairito didn't see Dumoulin coming. Who did? Not even Dumoulin according to his reactions.

The problem is: Quintana spent a lot of energy, Froome will be fresh and have Thomas...yikes. Maybe the "second place is not good" thing will summarize Nairo's 2017 campaign.

I still believe in him. Hecan beat Froome at the Tour. one day. But forget the Pantani comparison...

But if he was prepared "just for Nibali"... he kinda failed that as well no?
Anyway to be honest I don't believe the Giro Tour double is even remotely possible in this modern era... even Tour Vuelta seems quite hard (though feasible).

 

[hfer07]

Re:

what objectivity are we entitled to expect from a rider who gave it all for the victory? needless to say, nairo feels wounded by losing the giro so narrowly and tries to give it probable explanations (excuses). admitting that dimoulin won rightfully and there was no luck is like accepting movistar themselves got really lucky on formigal stage where tinkov-saxo did an immense amount of work. not going to happen. almost everyone's willing to attribute his own win to sheer power and one's to kind of luck. it's all about human nature.

agreed.

What bothers me the most is how people are underestimating Nairo's efforts to win Il Giro, because-despite all the criticism - Nairo did attack, Nairo did prepare for the race, Nairo did fight for pink - simply those efforts were not enough to get the title, neither they convinced the fans he deserved it because of the way he rode. What very few people here recognize is that Nairo was attempting to win the double- which means couldn't go full gas on Il Giro if he has serious aspirations in France, therefore he was not going to be 100% in Italy, perhaps 90% and then reach his best in July. I bet if Nairo wins Le Tour, all of the criticism rubbish will be forgotten..

 

[deValtos]

I don't doubt that Quintana put 100% into his race but why he gets so much criticism is he is fundamentally a boring climber in an era where we desperately need exciting riders. The aggressive exploits of climbers like Contador, Bardet, Landa are generally far more entertaining to watch. Only Majka makes Quintana look daring. :lol:

Gerrans was an effective rider that put 100% into his races and came away with some big results. Does it mean he got no criticism for that? Conservatism will always be criticized even if it can be effective at times.

 

[carton]

Re:

Gerrans was an effective rider that put 100% into his races and came away with some big results. Does it mean he got no criticism for that? Conservatism will always be criticized even if it can be effective at times.

Yeah, except that Quintana was by far the most aggressive GC rider of the Giro. He put in the most attacks, and had his team set up an attack in every single mountain stage, even the two stages he didn't end up putting in the attack: Etna, on a monstrous headwind where we saw mountain echelons; and Umbrailpass, just two days after his crash. But as ever, he had his team work itself to wear everyone out before then. You know, as all conservative riders ar wont to do: when in charge of the strongest team, they always finish tough stages without teammates, because, you know, playing it safe.

No current GT rider is anywhere near as aggressive. Not Contador, who equaled on time and lost time à la pédale in his last two GT wins; not by a country mile. Quintana took time on everyone in the mountains, just as he has done every Grand Tour he has started from 2014 on bar for the 2016 Tour when he just didn't have it. He went for it up Oropa even though the climb didn't suit him. He cracked. He then tried again at Gardena, from over 50km out. And down Sapada. And up Piancavallo. And up Foza. And, after he got reeled in, when everyone looked at each other at the end of the last climb, when everything looked hopeless, he was the one who took it up, put his nose to the wind, stage win be damned. You know, just like Simon freaking Gerrans.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Gerrans was an effective rider that put 100% into his races and came away with some big results. Does it mean he got no criticism for that? Conservatism will always be criticized even if it can be effective at times.

Yeah, except that Quintana was by far the most aggressive GC rider of the Giro. He put in the most attacks, and had his team set up an attack in every single mountain stage, even the two stages he didn't end up putting in the attack: Etna, on a monstrous headwind where we saw mountain echelons; and Umbrailpass, just two days after his crash. But as ever, he had his team work itself to wear everyone out before then. You know, as all conservative riders ar wont to do: when in charge of the strongest team, they always finish tough stages without teammates, because, you know, playing it safe.

No current GT rider is anywhere near as aggressive. Not Contador, who equaled on time and lost time à la pédale in his last two GT wins; not by a country mile. Quintana took time on everyone in the mountains, just as he has done every Grand Tour he has started from 2014 on bar for the 2016 Tour when he just didn't have it. He went for it up Oropa even though the climb didn't suit him. He cracked. He then tried again at Gardena, from over 50km out. And down Sapada. And up Piancavallo. And up Foza. And, after he got reeled in, when everyone looked at each other at the end of the last climb, when everything looked hopeless, he was the one who took it up, put his nose to the wind, stage win be damned. You know, just like Simon freaking Gerrans.

:lol:

Get real, please...

 

[Red Rick]

Probably Quintana's most aggressive GT he's ever done. He lost it, and the only way he could've won it with the legs he had was by being more agressive. That's also team tactics tho.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Gerrans was an effective rider that put 100% into his races and came away with some big results. Does it mean he got no criticism for that? Conservatism will always be criticized even if it can be effective at times.

Yeah, except that Quintana was by far the most aggressive GC rider of the Giro. He put in the most attacks, and had his team set up an attack in every single mountain stage, even the two stages he didn't end up putting in the attack: Etna, on a monstrous headwind where we saw mountain echelons; and Umbrailpass, just two days after his crash. But as ever, he had his team work itself to wear everyone out before then. You know, as all conservative riders ar wont to do: when in charge of the strongest team, they always finish tough stages without teammates, because, you know, playing it safe.

No current GT rider is anywhere near as aggressive. Not Contador, who equaled on time and lost time à la pédale in his last two GT wins; not by a country mile. Quintana took time on everyone in the mountains, just as he has done every Grand Tour he has started from 2014 on bar for the 2016 Tour when he just didn't have it. He went for it up Oropa even though the climb didn't suit him. He cracked. He then tried again at Gardena, from over 50km out. And down Sapada. And up Piancavallo. And up Foza. And, after he got reeled in, when everyone looked at each other at the end of the last climb, when everything looked hopeless, he was the one who took it up, put his nose to the wind, stage win be damned. You know, just like Simon freaking Gerrans.

Sounds like an exciting rider! And you say this chap was in the Giro? I'll have to go back and re-watch it at some point because I must have missed him.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Get real, please...

Sorry. It must've been someone else who was asking for them to rotate, and someone else who led them in those last 2km.

Sounds like an exciting rider! And you say this chap was in the Giro? I'll have to go back and re-watch it at some point because I must have missed him.

Sure, go re-watch any mountain stage. Or give it a few more years, when he's fading, and the GTs will all go to 100km stages and no time trials to try to encourage any action.

Probably Quintana's most aggressive GT he's ever done. He lost it, and the only way he could've won it with the legs he had was by being more aggressive. That's also team tactics tho.

I think it's still the vuelta, because Formigal. But yeah, no one has attacked on so many different stages in ages.

Maybe. But the other way around, strategically, was a better bet. He was pretty spot on, so it's hard to argue. But had he saved some of his teammates legs a few stages, just ridden them out, maybe the bridges would've worked. But most of all had he bided his time a bit more on Oropa, and scratched out four seconds (ten, even), he might've taken it.

With so many teams targeting GC, it was really hard to pull of that knock-out. Not that he didn't try. On Piancavallo and Gardena and Sapada and Asiago we saw teams working in their interests but incidentally against Quintana's. And honestly, Dumoulin had a really strong ride. It was a deserved win.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Get real, please...

Sorry. It must've been someone else who was asking for them to rotate, and someone else who led them in those last 2km.

Yes, begging others to drag him. If only he committed as much as he wanted the others to...

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Yes, begging others to drag him. If only he committed as much as he wanted the others to...

He did. He attacked, a couple of times. They all did. But he saw that the bigger rival was downhill. So he tried to organize the chase, did his turns, and pulled whenever there was a break. He dragged them into the finale. What else did you want from him?

 

[Netserk]

To do proper pulls like Pinot and Nibali did.

 

[carton]

Re:

To do proper pulls like Pinot and Nibali did.

He took longer pulls and put out much more power in W/Kg according to Velon on that last part. You wanted shorter, weaker pulls from him?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Little Q aint catching a break aint he.