Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

I have seen the video, thats not really healthy. Wow.

 

[Koronin]

Wow. I'm not sure that's the best way to train.

 

[Escarabajo]

I am not sure if that is training or just a celebration for something. I have seen on the Colombian news his training and is not like that. Having said that he still draws a lot of attention when he trains and that IMHO has been a problem for him. He probably don't see it.

 

[portugal11]

he is popular in colombia since his 2013 tour. But he still managed to be in the shape of his life in 2015 tour. So I think is more a mental block or clinic reasons to not found his best shape when really matters (gt's)

 

[Moviestar]

Quintana made a shift in his training approach. He usually went to Colombia in the period April-June. Since last year he lives and trains in Monaco in order to prepare for races like Dauphine/Suisse and the Tour. Last year wasn't a success as he was fatigued from the Giro. But overall, i think it's a good decision of him to stay in Europe.

 

[Escarabajo]

I am not sure what you mean but if anything last year proved to be a huge mistake to train in Europe. On top of that you have fatigue. But I am not sure how can it be good to take his biggest advantage which is living and training at his home at high altitude. Anyway you put it I don't understand it.

 

[Koronin]

He did much worse in his attempt at the Giro/Tour double than both Contador and Valverde did in theirs at older ages. Contador 1st and 5th at age 32, Valverde 3rd and 6th in his attempt at age 36. Quintana 2nd and 14th at age 27. Considering this the fatigue argument is nothing more than an excuse. Oh and for Valverde may as well throw in his 12th at la Vuelta for his 3rd Grand Tour in one season attempt at age 36. That Vuelta was also his 5th Grand Tour in a row so Quintana claiming the 4 GTs is also an excuse after what Valverde did.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

He did much worse in his attempt at the Giro/Tour double than both Contador and Valverde did in theirs at older ages. Contador 1st and 5th at age 32, Valverde 3rd and 6th in his attempt at age 36. Quintana 2nd and 14th at age 27. Considering this the fatigue argument is nothing more than an excuse. Oh and for Valverde may as well throw in his 12th at la Vuelta for his 3rd Grand Tour in one season attempt at age 36. That Vuelta was also his 5th Grand Tour in a row so Quintana claiming the 4 GTs is also an excuse after what Valverde did.

Quintana tried the double once, and I'm pretty sure variability of performance is gonna be very big in Giro-Tour doubles.

Quintana wasn't his sharpest in the last week of that Giro, so I'm inclined to think that he raced the Giro with worse form that he should have and as such was more fatigued/didn't recover as quickly has he would've had if he'd been in top shape.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

He did much worse in his attempt at the Giro/Tour double than both Contador and Valverde did in theirs at older ages. Contador 1st and 5th at age 32, Valverde 3rd and 6th in his attempt at age 36. Quintana 2nd and 14th at age 27. Considering this the fatigue argument is nothing more than an excuse. Oh and for Valverde may as well throw in his 12th at la Vuelta for his 3rd Grand Tour in one season attempt at age 36. That Vuelta was also his 5th Grand Tour in a row so Quintana claiming the 4 GTs is also an excuse after what Valverde did.

Valverde is Valverde. He's one of a kind. A generational talent. I personally think that it is a bit premature for the playing of taps on Quintana's grand tour career as many have been doing since his Tour performance (not necessarily you). He's 27 and had a podium at the Giro and disappointment at the Tour. I'm confident he will come back and prove many here wrong.

 

[Koronin]

Red Rick, possibly, but the two most recent before Quintana are Contador (the best Grand Tour rider of his generation) and Valverde (possibly the most consistent rider of all time, or at least one of the most consistent of all time). So that is who we have to compare him to.

Angliru, True about Valverde. He is a very unique rider. However he and Contador are the two most recent to attempt it and who we have to compare what Quintana tried to. I didn't say he couldn't win another GT. However, in the Giro/Tour double he was not as good at Valverde and Contador were in their attempts at older ages. So to me fatigue is just an excuse.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Do we know which races NQ is doing this year?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

He did much worse in his attempt at the Giro/Tour double than both Contador and Valverde did in theirs at older ages. Contador 1st and 5th at age 32, Valverde 3rd and 6th in his attempt at age 36. Quintana 2nd and 14th at age 27. Considering this the fatigue argument is nothing more than an excuse. Oh and for Valverde may as well throw in his 12th at la Vuelta for his 3rd Grand Tour in one season attempt at age 36. That Vuelta was also his 5th Grand Tour in a row so Quintana claiming the 4 GTs is also an excuse after what Valverde did.

Valverde is Valverde. He's one of a kind. A generational talent. I personally think that it is a bit premature for the playing of taps on Quintana's grand tour career as many have been doing since his Tour performance (not necessarily you). He's 27 and had a podium at the Giro and disappointment at the Tour. I'm confident he will come back and prove many here wrong.

The younger Quintana would never have been beaten by Dumoulin at the Giro. Many riders had success early in their careers only to see a drop off in the second half of their careers. Remains to be seen which one Quintana is but at the moment he is not doing as well as expected. But while Quintana is not winning, new GT talents are emerging on the scene. Now he can fully prepare for the Tour. He needs to regain his better climbing form, and there will be quite a few riders fancying their chances at the Tour especially if Froome doesn't show.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Do we know which races NQ is doing this year?

Only the Tour and a race in Colombia. It appears that Movistar has only done a calendar into February. All they've said so far is Quintana: race in Colombia and Tour, Landa:Andalucia and Tour, and Valverde: Mallorca, Valencia, Murcia, Tour (although he's stated he's racing Catalunya and the Ardennes).

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

He did much worse in his attempt at the Giro/Tour double than both Contador and Valverde did in theirs at older ages. Contador 1st and 5th at age 32, Valverde 3rd and 6th in his attempt at age 36. Quintana 2nd and 14th at age 27. Considering this the fatigue argument is nothing more than an excuse. Oh and for Valverde may as well throw in his 12th at la Vuelta for his 3rd Grand Tour in one season attempt at age 36. That Vuelta was also his 5th Grand Tour in a row so Quintana claiming the 4 GTs is also an excuse after what Valverde did.

Valverde is Valverde. He's one of a kind. A generational talent. I personally think that it is a bit premature for the playing of taps on Quintana's grand tour career as many have been doing since his Tour performance (not necessarily you). He's 27 and had a podium at the Giro and disappointment at the Tour. I'm confident he will come back and prove many here wrong.

The younger Quintana would never have been beaten by Dumoulin at the Giro. Many riders had success early in their careers only to see a drop off in the second half of their careers. Remains to be seen which one Quintana is but at the moment he is not doing as well as expected. But while Quintana is not winning, new GT talents are emerging on the scene. Now he can fully prepare for the Tour. He needs to regain his better climbing form, and there will be quite a few riders fancying their chances at the Tour especially if Froome doesn't show.

This Giro had warmer weather than usual, was tough, very tough down the stretch, it may have depleted NQ more than it did the others. Maybe.

And yes, the younger Quintana could have lost to Dumoulin. Tactics. There were enough mountains to beat up on TD, but no one took the Dutch seriously. With the exception of the Blockhaus attack, Quintana rode like his usual self, conservative. Dumoulin didn't have the bad day that all predicted. Nibali blew himself up on the Blockhaus, NQ may have taken him for granted too. Quintana could have won, I believe. Had he switched his head with Contador's... The legs were fine IMO. What disappoints me the most is that he showed at the '16 Vuelta that he could attack, dish out pain, win. I feel that in '17 he reverted to his comfort zone in GTs: defensive riding.

I'm not ready to write him off just yet, but he needs a strong '18 campaign. With his program being what you all evoked, if true, only the TdF win can make him bounce back. 2nd place is not good (as we and Alberto know), he's been there, done that. Twice.

Nairo Quintana, aggressive, can win the '18 TdF. Survive week one, be strong in the Alps, take time at the AdH, murder everyone on the Portet.

Easy from the couch .

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

He did much worse in his attempt at the Giro/Tour double than both Contador and Valverde did in theirs at older ages. Contador 1st and 5th at age 32, Valverde 3rd and 6th in his attempt at age 36. Quintana 2nd and 14th at age 27. Considering this the fatigue argument is nothing more than an excuse. Oh and for Valverde may as well throw in his 12th at la Vuelta for his 3rd Grand Tour in one season attempt at age 36. That Vuelta was also his 5th Grand Tour in a row so Quintana claiming the 4 GTs is also an excuse after what Valverde did.

Valverde is Valverde. He's one of a kind. A generational talent. I personally think that it is a bit premature for the playing of taps on Quintana's grand tour career as many have been doing since his Tour performance (not necessarily you). He's 27 and had a podium at the Giro and disappointment at the Tour. I'm confident he will come back and prove many here wrong.

The younger Quintana would never have been beaten by Dumoulin at the Giro. Many riders had success early in their careers only to see a drop off in the second half of their careers. Remains to be seen which one Quintana is but at the moment he is not doing as well as expected. But while Quintana is not winning, new GT talents are emerging on the scene. Now he can fully prepare for the Tour. He needs to regain his better climbing form, and there will be quite a few riders fancying their chances at the Tour especially if Froome doesn't show.

This Giro had warmer weather than usual, was tough, very tough down the stretch, it may have depleted NQ more than it did the others. Maybe.

And yes, the younger Quintana could have lost to Dumoulin. Tactics. There were enough mountains to beat up on TD, but no one took the Dutch seriously. With the exception of the Blockhaus attack, Quintana rode like his usual self, conservative. Dumoulin didn't have the bad day that all predicted. Nibali blew himself up on the Blockhaus, NQ may have taken him for granted too. Quintana could have won, I believe. Had he switched his head with Contador's... The legs were fine IMO. What disappoints me the most is that he showed at the '16 Vuelta that he could attack, dish out pain, win. I feel that in '17 he reverted to his comfort zone in GTs: defensive riding.

I'm not ready to write him off just yet, but he needs a strong '18 campaign. With his program being what you all evoked, if true, only the TdF win can make him bounce back. 2nd place is not good (as we and Alberto know), he's been there, done that. Twice.

Nairo Quintana, aggressive, can win the '18 TdF. Survive week one, be strong in the Alps, take time at the AdH, murder everyone on the Portet.

Easy from the couch .

TD was a beast this year in the Giro. MAYBE an absolutely top form NQ could have pushed him to a very close outcome. But let's not forget TD went to the toilet in the middle of the race and still won. I'm not sold at all that any NQ beats TD at last years Giro.

 

[Tonton]

Fair enough, so let me re-phrase. Much closer. Better: winning due to the poop incident. Nairo did nothing after the Blockhaus.

Look back at stage 20 for example (I have watched that one 1000 times, guess why ). Too little, too late. TD was on the edge, maybe the NL gang helped, but still. TD should have lost a lot more. There were opportunities all over and Quintana played it safe...at least agree with that...please .

 

[hrotha]

I agree with Tonton, Dumoulin was far from invincible at the Giro. They spared him a couple of times, poop aside.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I agree with Tonton, Dumoulin was far from invincible at the Giro. They spared him a couple of times, poop aside.

We don't agree very often . Happy New Year hrotha .

 

[Koronin]

Here's the problem in taking much from the '16 Vuelta win with attacks from Quintana. The main attack that won him that race was set up before the start by Valverde and Contador making a nice game plan. Or at least they were in a deep discussion before the start of that stage and were doing their best to make sure no one else had any idea of what they were talking about.

I think the conservative Quintana is typical and I don't expect that to change.

I also agree that Dumoulin was beatable in the Giro.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Here's the problem in taking much from the '16 Vuelta win with attacks from Quintana. The main attack that won him that race was set up before the start by Valverde and Contador making a nice game plan. Or at least they were in a deep discussion before the start of that stage and were doing their best to make sure no one else had any idea of what they were talking about.

I think the conservative Quintana is typical and I don't expect that to change.

I also agree that Dumoulin was beatable in the Giro.

Somehow I replied to this post and it got away. I agree.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Here's the problem in taking much from the '16 Vuelta win with attacks from Quintana. The main attack that won him that race was set up before the start by Valverde and Contador making a nice game plan. Or at least they were in a deep discussion before the start of that stage and were doing their best to make sure no one else had any idea of what they were talking about.

I think the conservative Quintana is typical and I don't expect that to change.

I also agree that Dumoulin was beatable in the Giro.

Somehow I replied to this post and it got away. I agree.

Both Quintana and Nibali were in crap shape in Giro. I guess Quintana simply blew up his prep training for Giro-Tour double. I don't know the excuse for Nibs, but he was all different man in Vuelta and in that shape would've probably won Giro even without poop.

Quintana's riding looks like he has lost all the kick he still used to have on 2013-2015. Riding like 35 year old instead of 27.

 

[Põhja Konn]

I obviously cannot rule out the possibility of Quintana's best days being behind him, but personally I don't think that's the case at all. Last years Giro and Tour were his 3rd and 4th consecutive GTs in a row. Adding the four shorter stage races he did before the Giro then it is not exactly surprising that cumulative fatigue caught up with him even with the off-season in between. If there were problems and miscalculations with preparation then it further compromised his performances. How he performes during this upcoming season will say a lot about him as a rider and where he stands in terms of his career trajectory.

There is quite widespread dislike of him in this forum and that dislike largely explains why so many people are getting ahead of themselves proclaiming that we have seen the best of Quintana. It might turn out to be true, but at this stage reaching such a conclusion is influenced more by wishful thinking rather than rational analysis.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

I obviously cannot rule out the possibility of Quintana's best days being behind him, but personally I don't think that's the case at all. Last years Giro and Tour were his 3rd and 4th consecutive GTs in a row. Adding the four shorter stage races he did before the Giro then it is not exactly surprising that cumulative fatigue caught up with him even with the off-season in between. If there were problems and miscalculations with preparation then it further compromised his performances. How he performes during this upcoming season will say a lot about him as a rider and where he stands in terms of his career trajectory.

There is quite widespread dislike of him in this forum and that dislike largely explains why so many people are getting ahead of themselves proclaiming that we have seen the best of Quintana. It might turn out to be true, but at this stage reaching such a conclusion is influenced more by wishful thinking rather than rational analysis.

This.

I will add, as Bambino said, Quintana and Nibali clearly underperformed during the Giro. Nibali people had a good explanation and that was that age was catching up with him. For Quintana the explanation was not so clear.

I don't agree with comparing Quintana to Valverde because they are two complete type of riders. And when it comes to consistency Valverde is one of the best in history.

Thanks.

 

[Jspear]

I feel like some people want to like him, he just makes it hard for others to root for him. That’s me. I’d love to see him tear it up. I’d cheer for him. He just don’t do it much. Personally I think that’s where a lot of the “harshness” comes from.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I feel like some people want to like him, he just makes it hard for others to root for him. That’s me. I’d love to see him tear it up. I’d cheer for him. He just don’t do it much. Personally I think that’s where a lot of the “harshness” comes from.

I think expectations on him to entertain are too high, resulting in people feeling let down by him. The reality is that he does a serious all-in, race splitting, attack from 50+km out pretty much every GT that he rides; and has won two GTs already thanks to those attacks. How many other GT contenders can say the same? Quintana is more aggressive than nearly all of them.

There seems to be some expectation that he should be lighting up every mountain stage and putting everyone to the sword day after day as soon as the road tilts up, which just isn't realistic in the modern era. At least not if you want to win GTs.