National Football League

Page 298 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Is there a need in the NFL today for an Earl Campbell or Lendale White type of RB? I mean, if he can catch the ball, perhaps. Mike Alstott comes to mind.

As to Tyrod, that's a sticky wicket for sure. At his age, it's a gamble to sign him to a 3-4 year deal, hoping he's going to take you to the next level, and you aren't using him to play while you develop someone else.

Johnny Manziel is back with his agent, and says some teams are interested. But I have to wonder how true that is. His agent wouldn't comment. I suppose if a team needs some publicity, to help fill some seats and sell some swag, they could sign him as a 3rd or 4th stringer for the pre-season at least.
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
Is there a need in the NFL today for an Earl Campbell or Lendale White type of RB? I mean, if he can catch the ball, perhaps. Mike Alstott comes to mind.

As to Tyrod, that's a sticky wicket for sure. At his age, it's a gamble to sign him to a 3-4 year deal, hoping he's going to take you to the next level, and you aren't using him to play while you develop someone else.

Johnny Manziel is back with his agent, and says some teams are interested. But I have to wonder how true that is. His agent wouldn't comment. I suppose if a team needs some publicity, to help fill some seats and sell some swag, they could sign him as a 3rd or 4th stringer for the pre-season at least.
I know Manziel is popular in College Station TX, but is he really that popular on a national level, outside of the public curiosity to watch a train wreck as it's happening? Serious question, I really don't know...
 
Nomad said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Combine news bit: Leonard Fournette weighed in at 240 lbs. Heavier than Hershel Walker. If he runs anywhere near 4.4, Wow!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000788629/article/leonard-fournette-tips-combine-scales-at-240-pounds
Jerome Bettis 40-time was about 4.7.
That may not be good - it could drop him some draft spots if it affects his speed & agility (he's saying that it's water weight). He also didn't participate in the bench press:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/3/2/14796202/2017-nfl-combine-results-running-backs-leonard-fournette-dalvin-cook-christian-mccaffrey
True the added weight may not be good. Especially knowing that his vertical jump was a mere 28 and a half inches. That is very subpar. Compare that to Christian McCaffrey who had something around 37 inch vertical. Interesting that the vertical jump and the broad jump are actually measures of explosiveness. So does that mean Fournette is not explosive in his running? Curious isn't it. But guess what is coming up right now? The running backs are getting ready for the 40 yard dash and there is a lot of interest in how fast Fournette will run. Most general managers and Scouts however are saying that they really don't care what time he posts, how high he jumps, or any of that because the tape speaks for itself. As for not participating in the bench press, I think he is just trying to conserve energy, and when it comes to strength, again tape speaks for itself as we've seen him many times slam guys down with a big stiff arm. And so now his time is in in his first 40 attempt - 4.51.
 
Not terrible.

I still wonder the same question, what situation do we see him playing for any team? Even if you look at someone like Legarrette Blount, who is just a load at a muscular 250lbs, Blount is a situational player, not an every down player. He can be in some games, when called upon, but that's not what he's asked to do through the season. Does a team need someone that is? Blount is also a pretty good pass blocker and decent receiver for being so big. Is Fournette going to be better than Blount? Because he's going to have to be if you are planning on drafting him in the 1st round as I see it.

I think a lot of these RB's are going to have to take Ezekiel Elliot out to dinner when this draft is over.

EDIT: A lot of these RB's are going to have to take Elliot, and the Cowboys Offensive Line out to dinner after this draft is over.
 
Nomad, you and I or just going to have to agree to disagree. You can't honestly say that Fournette is in the same class as a Barry Sanders or Walter Payton when it comes to lateral movement. And again, the video shows he can cut but his running style is mostly downhill.
 
Several of the tackles and guards looked pretty good including Kam Robinson, Garrett Bolles from Utah, Taylor Moten of Western Michigan. Maybe Forest Lamp from Western Kentucky, Conor McDermott UCLA. All those guys have pretty good length, agility, good feet, hip rotation, and executed the drills pretty well. Of those players I named, Robinson's feet were probably just a little bit more like concrete even though he did a very good kick-slide drill (which mimics the pass blocking of a left or right tackle). But because of that the experts are talking about him being more suited to an interior line (guard) position or right tackle to start his career with. I think all of those guys could be first or second round picks.
Edit - https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2017/3/2/14796092/2017-nfl-combine-results-offensive-line
 
Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
Nomad, you and I or just going to have to agree to disagree. You can't honestly say that Fournette is in the same class as a Barry Sanders or Walter Payton when it comes to lateral movement. And again, the video shows he can cut but his running style is mostly downhill.
Where did I say he's in the same class as Sanders or Payton? In the film study, he's compare to Shady & Elliott, one of whom you promoted as your example of an "ankle-breaking" type runner. I think the film on him shows versatility, e.g., downhill runner with the a ability to maneuver laterally.

Mayock doesn't think coming in heavier at 240 (with being able to run 4.51) is any concern on his draft position. I thought he looked real good on the agility & pass route/catching drills. And the ankle seems to be fine. It looks like he & Cook will be the first two taken, and who goes first is anybody's guess.
 
Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
I agree 4.51, 4.52 (Fournette's second attempt) is not terrible. Especially for his size. Consider Christian McCaffrey ran 4.48 + 4.49 but he only weighed in at 202 pounds.
Do you think Eddy's kid impressed enough to be taken in the 1st round?
 
Re: Re:

Irondan said:
Alpe d'Huez said:
Is there a need in the NFL today for an Earl Campbell or Lendale White type of RB? I mean, if he can catch the ball, perhaps. Mike Alstott comes to mind.

As to Tyrod, that's a sticky wicket for sure. At his age, it's a gamble to sign him to a 3-4 year deal, hoping he's going to take you to the next level, and you aren't using him to play while you develop someone else.

Johnny Manziel is back with his agent, and says some teams are interested. But I have to wonder how true that is. His agent wouldn't comment. I suppose if a team needs some publicity, to help fill some seats and sell some swag, they could sign him as a 3rd or 4th stringer for the pre-season at least.
I know Manziel is popular in College Station TX, but is he really that popular on a national level, outside of the public curiosity to watch a train wreck as it's happening? Serious question, I really don't know...
It's just the curiosity about a train wreck mainly. He has talent but whether he gets the chance to exercise it again is another thing. Most QB's that become starters in the NFL become pretty well known even the ones that play badly or get kicked out of the sandbox.
 
Re: Re:

Nomad said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Nomad, you and I or just going to have to agree to disagree. You can't honestly say that Fournette is in the same class as a Barry Sanders or Walter Payton when it comes to lateral movement. And again, the video shows he can cut but his running style is mostly downhill.
Where did I say he's in the same class as Sanders or Payton? In the film study, he's compare to Shady & Elliott, one of whom you promoted as your example of an "ankle-breaking" type runner. I think the film on him shows versatility, e.g., downhill runner with the a ability to maneuver laterally.

Mayock doesn't think coming in heavier at 240 (with being able to run 4.51) is any concern on his draft position. I thought he looked real good on the agility & pass route/catching drills. And the ankle seems to be fine. It looks like he & Cook will be the first two taken, and who goes first is anybody's guess.
You didn't say he was in the same class as Sanders or Peyton. I said he was not. But then you said I was wrong on point #2 where I brought Sanders and Peyton's names into the conversation.

Now I understand what you mean. As for what I meant, let me put it this way. I'm not jumping on the Fournette band wagon. I see some anomalies. He could prove me wrong, but when Fournette hits the NFL and those holes are not nearly as wide as they were in college, we will have a chance to see more often how well he handles lack of space. He has speed, but so does the rest of the NFL. For example, Fournette ran a 4.51 40 at the combine, but Seattle MLB Bobby Wagner at 6'0" and 250 pounds runs a 4.5. As for the anomalies: #1) when the combine broadcast superimposed Fournette's 40-yard runs over Zeke Elliot's from a year ago, Zeke got the early lead but Fournette closed the gap in the last 20 yards or so. Clearly, Fournette has better open space speed to run away, but was not as quick at the start (off the ball or after directional change). This brings up the second anomaly: #2) Not being as quick is supported by his combine vertical jump (which is one measure of explosiveness) of 28.5" which is abysmal for running backs (Wagner by comparison had a 39" vertical). Other combine drills that indicate explosiveness are the shuttles and broad jump. Fournette declined to participate in any of those drills, instead letting his impressive 40-time do the talking (in additional to game film). But it begs questions, does he have something to hide? Is his ankle still bothering him?

At the end of the day, I'm not a big fan of test numbers. Tape is more telling. This is why most everyone is saying the combine results of Fournette will not affect his draft position, even if some folks are also saying his combine performance is not that impressive because the DNP's (did not participate) on 4 drills (3-cone, 20-shuttle, 60-shuttle, and broad jump) plus the low vertical pull down the 40-dash performance. But then he still has his pro day coming where he could possibly put naysayers to shame (e.g. he has responded on Twitter to some naysayers that "they not believing in me").
 
Re: Re:

Nomad said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
I agree 4.51, 4.52 (Fournette's second attempt) is not terrible. Especially for his size. Consider Christian McCaffrey ran 4.48 + 4.49 but he only weighed in at 202 pounds.
Do you think Eddy's kid impressed enough to be taken in the 1st round?
I think McCaffrey impressed me enough to be taken in the first round. But I'm not drafting and have zero pulse on any team. Question is will he? All depends on so many things. Besides value at the pick, I'm not sure what team needs are. Are teams looking for a featured back, or a situational back? Because McCaffrey is undersized at 202 lbs, I don't see him as a featured back but more of a situational back.

I have not watched the combine since Friday as I was more interested in The Bigs, linemen. I did see some replay highlights of McCaffrey and I was impressed with his burst and cutting ability. What sets him apart as a running back is his acceleration and explosiveness. This observation is really supported very well by his combine results, where he chose to participate in all of the drills. Just look at these really solid numbers (1st overall in the 3-cone and 60-shuttle):
40 Yard Dash = 4.48 (tie for 5th best of the RBs)
Vertical Jump = 37.5" (tie for 2nd best of the RBs)
Broad Jump = 121" (tie for 8th best of the RBs)
3 Cone Drill = 6.57 (overall best of the RBs)
20 Yard Shuttle = 4.22 (4th best of the RBs)
60 Yard Shuttle = 11.03 (overall best of the RBs)
Of the above drills, vert, broad, 3-cone, and the two shuttles are all indicators of explosiveness. McCaffrey really came to the combine prepared to showcase his strengths. And I think he did that very well.

McCaffrey is a projected 1st or 2nd rounder. Probably a middle to lower first rounder. He would be a bit of a reach if he was taken in the top 10 overall. He would be a steal as a second rounder.
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
Nomad said:
on3m@n@rmy said:
Nomad, you and I or just going to have to agree to disagree. You can't honestly say that Fournette is in the same class as a Barry Sanders or Walter Payton when it comes to lateral movement. And again, the video shows he can cut but his running style is mostly downhill.
Where did I say he's in the same class as Sanders or Payton? In the film study, he's compare to Shady & Elliott, one of whom you promoted as your example of an "ankle-breaking" type runner. I think the film on him shows versatility, e.g., downhill runner with the a ability to maneuver laterally.

Mayock doesn't think coming in heavier at 240 (with being able to run 4.51) is any concern on his draft position. I thought he looked real good on the agility & pass route/catching drills. And the ankle seems to be fine. It looks like he & Cook will be the first two taken, and who goes first is anybody's guess.
You didn't say he was in the same class as Sanders or Peyton. I said he was not. But then you said I was wrong on point #2 where I brought Sanders and Peyton's names into the conversation.

Now I understand what you mean. As for what I meant, let me put it this way. I'm not jumping on the Fournette band wagon. I see some anomalies. He could prove me wrong, but when Fournette hits the NFL and those holes are not nearly as wide as they were in college, we will have a chance to see more often how well he handles lack of space. He has speed, but so does the rest of the NFL. For example, Fournette ran a 4.51 40 at the combine, but Seattle MLB Bobby Wagner at 6'0" and 250 pounds runs a 4.5. As for the anomalies: #1) when the combine broadcast superimposed Fournette's 40-yard runs over Zeke Elliot's from a year ago, Zeke got the early lead but Fournette closed the gap in the last 20 yards or so. Clearly, Fournette has better open space speed to run away, but was not as quick at the start (off the ball or after directional change). This brings up the second anomaly: #2) Not being as quick is supported by his combine vertical jump (which is one measure of explosiveness) of 28.5" which is abysmal for running backs (Wagner by comparison had a 39" vertical). Other combine drills that indicate explosiveness are the shuttles and broad jump. Fournette declined to participate in any of those drills, instead letting his impressive 40-time do the talking (in additional to game film). But it begs questions, does he have something to hide? Is his ankle still bothering him?

At the end of the day, I'm not a big fan of test numbers. Tape is more telling. This is why most everyone is saying the combine results of Fournette will not affect his draft position, even if some folks are also saying his combine performance is not that impressive because the DNP's (did not participate) on 4 drills (3-cone, 20-shuttle, 60-shuttle, and broad jump) plus the low vertical pull down the 40-dash performance. But then he still has his pro day coming where he could possibly put naysayers to shame (e.g. he has responded on Twitter to some naysayers that "they not believing in me").
I know you're not on the "Fournette bandwagon," but I doubt you watched all the film on him reference the link that I posted. And I completely agree; you shouldn't be a fan of test numbers as tape is, in fact, more telling. And in Fournette's film study, you'll clearly see his lateral movement & quickness displayed. On one play, the O-line completely collapses and the defense should have nailed him for a loss. Instead, Fournette not only jukes one defender, but two others and accelerates around the corner for positive yardage.

And if Fournette goes to a lousy team with a bad O-line (likely) and doesn't do very well this season, then critics like you will be saying he's overrated and not as good as advertised. As you know, the O-line is the key in the NFL - a good one can make an RB look fantastic and a bad one can make them look like chumps. Elliott did very well his rookie season because he was playing behind the best O-line in football. Conversely, Todd Gurley played behind one of worst O-lines and managed only 885 yds (17th). Gurley was a stud drafted 10th overall in 2015; a big back at 227 with 4.42 speed and 3,285 career rushing yards at Georgia against tough SEC competition. Furthermore, his Jr. season (and last as he declared early for the draft) was even cut short with an ACL injury. I bet if you put Gurley with that Cowboy O-line, he'd perform just as well as Elliott did.

And let's face it, teams are rolling the dice with a RB taken in the first round anyway. The longevity of a RB in the NFL isn't very good to invest with a 1st rd pick. Many teams have done exceptionally well with lower round picks playing behind good O-lines such as Jay Ajayi (5th rd), David Johnson (3rd), Devonta Freeman (4th) & Jordan Howard (5th), who incidently was the 2nd leading rusher in the NFL last season. Even undrafted cats like Legarrette Blount, C.J. Anderson & Thomas Rawls are doing very well behind good O-lines.
 
No, I watched the entire video you posted, and know the exact play where he shows lateral moves including a spin move or two. Three moves I believe it was in one play that the narrator gushed over. What I saw on the moment he made his first cut right was he nearly lost balance but recovered. But nice clean moves after that. That video however is littered with great downhill running, but far less of the other style. BTW, I'm not the critic you say. I'm just exercising more caution than you by being more questioning.

Now if Fournette goes to a team with a lousy line then I recognize it for what it is. That would not be his fault. My guess is he will probably make that line (& perhaps the passing game) better.

As to the UDFAs you named, Rawls has never played behind a good OL in Seattle. They actually do okay vs mediocre defenses, but struggle vs defenses that can beat them up in the trenches. Interior defensive linemen like the Cards Calais Campbell and the Rams Aaron Donald give Seattle's running game (& offense in general) fits. And if Seattle accounts for them by double or triple teaming then those defenses come at them with a stunt, blitz, or someone freed up by double teams.
 
Regarding the last two posts on free agent signings by the 49ers, check out this website that includes comments and grades for all signings to date across the whole league. Not only do they discuss the 49ers signings of QB Brian Hoyer (2 years, $12 million, B Grade ) and WR Marquise Goodwin (2 years, $8 million, D Grade) , but also fullback Kyle Juszczyk (4 years, $21 million, B+ Grade, highest paid FB ever?). If you are interested.
http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php
Hoyer would not be any team's franchise QB but can be a decent interim player.
Interesting comments about Mike Glennon on the site, who the Bears may go after.
 
Re:

movingtarget said:
49ers sign Hoyer to a two year deal with Garcon to follow also a WR from the Bills. So it looks like the 49ers will use an early rounds pick for a QB and maybe Cousins is on the agenda for next year.
So, the 9ers went for a journeyman QB. This guy changes teams as often as I change socks, Lol. 6 different teams in 8 seasons (NE, Pit, Ari, Hou, Cle, Chi). Does this mean they'll draft Trubisky and let them fight it out for the starting job? Hard to figure this all out, as the NFL network has a mock draft update (Casserly) showing the 9ers trading their 2nd OA pick to the Skins (presumably as part of a trade for Cousins?).

And it now looks like Elway is going to come knocking at Romo's door with checkbook in hand:

http://kdvr.com/2017/03/08/cowboys-inform-tony-romo-hell-be-released-broncos-expected-to-make-push-for-quarterback/

Elway's using the Manning blueprint for "win now." If Elway signs Romo, will it work out as brilliantly as it did with Peyton? Time will only tell, but one thing is certain in that neither Siemian nor Lynch will be happy. I can't see Siemian staying as a clipboard holder, and would Lynch want to backup Romo for a few years similar to the Osweiller/Manning situation.
 
on3m@n@rmy said:
Regarding the last two posts on free agent signings by the 49ers, check out this website that includes comments and grades for all signings to date across the whole league. Not only do they discuss the 49ers signings of QB Brian Hoyer (2 years, $12 million, B Grade ) and WR Marquise Goodwin (2 years, $8 million, D Grade) , but also fullback Kyle Juszczyk (4 years, $21 million, B+ Grade, highest paid FB ever?). If you are interested.
http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php
Hoyer would not be any team's franchise QB but can be a decent interim player.
Interesting comments about Mike Glennon on the site, who the Bears may go after.
Thanks for that. Some interesting reading. 49ers fans also had their eyebrows raised about Vance McDonald's new contract but that was under the previous GM who had some serious issues. McDonald did well last season before he was injured but he's not worth that much. No surprise to see Taylor stay with the Bills. Interesting about Glennon and the Bears as I heard they were really interested in Garoppolo. I'm sure if the Patriots received a good offer he would go, they are not the sort of team to hold onto players that might be good if the money being offered is lucrative. Hoyer is there for the year probably. I think the D rating for Kerley was harsh, he is better than that. Torrey Smith was released from the 49ers and based on his performance last year he would be a C at best and Kerley played all over him. The Cowboys signing of Sanchez is a weird one. There are better back ups around, maybe he was cheap ? Even Gabbert and Ponder are better than Sanchez. Washington's re-signing of Vernon Davis was terrible as the article said. He was poor in his last year at the 49ers, did not get on the field at Denver in 2015 after dropping the ball all the time, had a better year last year but still, not someone I would retain. Very hot and cold.
 
Re: Re:

Nomad said:
movingtarget said:
49ers sign Hoyer to a two year deal with Garcon to follow also a WR from the Bills. So it looks like the 49ers will use an early rounds pick for a QB and maybe Cousins is on the agenda for next year.
So, the 9ers went for a journeyman QB. This guy changes teams as often as I change socks, Lol. 6 different teams in 8 seasons (NE, Pit, Ari, Hou, Cle, Chi). Does this mean they'll draft Trubisky and let them fight it out for the starting job? Hard to figure this all out, as the NFL network has a mock draft update (Casserly) showing the 9ers trading their 2nd OA pick to the Skins (presumably as part of a trade for Cousins?).

And it now looks like Elway is going to come knocking at Romo's door with checkbook in hand:

http://kdvr.com/2017/03/08/cowboys-inform-tony-romo-hell-be-released-broncos-expected-to-make-push-for-quarterback/

Elway's using the Manning blueprint for "win now." If Elway signs Romo, will it work out as brilliantly as it did with Peyton? Time will only tell, but one thing is certain in that neither Siemian nor Lynch will be happy. I can't see Siemian staying as a clipboard holder, and would Lynch want to backup Romo for a few years similar to the Osweiller/Manning situation.
I think the 49ers will draft an early rounds QB and next year try for Cousins probably unless they draft a stud which is probably unlikely. The big question is who will the Browns draft as their first pick ? Garrett or a QB ? Some are convinced they will take Trubisky but would the 49ers not take Garrett to get Cousins ? Many people think it would be a mistake but Shanahan seems to be a big Cousins fan. I heard that the Chiefs are interested in Watson. Andy Reid seems to be a big fan. Some good points made about Romo in the following video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P71TS-5qweY
 
Thanks for the information there Movingtarget. Also, good question about who the Browns select at#1 overall. Of course the Browns could trade down, but I don't think the quarterbacks are good enough this year to warrant giving up the package to trade up for. Although the Browns could trade down to allow a team to draft Myles, the Browns also are in big need of a pass rushing defensive end. Therefore, because of that and the fact that the grade on Myles Garrett is so much higher than the grade on any of the quarterbacks, I think the Browns keep the #1 overall pick and use it to select Myles (remember Houston picked Clowney when they also needed a quarterback). But if some team is stupid enough to do what the Rams did last year to select Goff then the Browns would be crazy to pass that up.

Myles may not want to go to the Browns (or he might prefer going to a different team), but if I was him I'd relish the opportunity to put my stank on that team.
 
Oh oh. The Bleacher Report just reported that the Browns have signed ex-Rams wide receiver Kenny Britt to a big deal. Britt is a big-bodied wide receiver who stood out in 2016. Now to complete the puzzle so to speak the Browns might be willing to draft a quarterback as their first round pick. So now one question is will the Browns be willing to trade down to a team who wants to select Myles Garrett and trade down to a position where they could still get the quarterback that they want? Or stay at the number one overall and pick the quarterback instead of Myles Garrett?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS