National Football League

[Alpe d'Huez]

This all reminds me of the Joe Montana debate. That any QB in that "system" would have won 4 SB's and three Superbowl MVP's, etc, etc. Of course there's the flip side to that, the argument that Jerry Rice was only good because he was in that system and had Montana and Young throwing to him. Blah, blah, blah.

Personally, I'd take a Bill Walsh 9-7 team over a Norv Turner 14-2 team in most any playoff game.

This week's discussions are interesting. Near panic in NYG land. But a win over KC solves many things, and Eli better on the road historically, KC may be a bit inflated. But if the Giants lose, the NY media will go nuts.

It's fascinating to see NYG, Pitt, Wash 0-3. Atl, SF, GB 1-2. And Mia, KC and Chi all 3-0. Of course, Arizona started 4-0 last season...

 

[zastomito]

NYG have been cutting talent on offense and defense for years and it's finally coming to haunt them, Pitt is a salary cap mess, Wash is overrated, Atl, SF and GB are real question marks, especially SF.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I assume you're joking, since his 10-3 record in his first year after leaving the pros was a best for Stanford in I don't remember how many years. Not to mention beating Penn State and Paterno in a bowl game. IIRC, he only coached one more year...

Not really joking. Most people won't agree with me OFC. Put it this way, better expressed would be to say I question how great a coach he was when he had all that talent at SF. Probably any coach could have done pretty close to what he did with that talent. But I'm ok with him getting credit for it, because he was the guy in charge. Then forward to his later HC job at Stanford. Yes, he went 10-3 with talent recruited by his predecessor, Dennis Green, who's last year with The Cardinal was 8-4 and improving. But in Bill's last two seasons at Stanford they went 4-7 & 3-7-1. It was those last 2 seasons at Stanford that really made me question.

 

[zastomito]

Probably was already mentally retired by the.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Now see, I don't really buy into the idea that, in his last 2 years at Stanford, Walsh was mentally retired or bored. Why not? Because:
- he had a 3 or 4 year break from the NFL grind after his last SB victory in 1988. From 1988-1992 he was an NBC broadcaster. So he had time to recharge.
- he knew what a grind coaching was, but still chose to go back into it. The fact he had time to recharge AND returned to coaching (@Stanford) tells me he still had that fire inside of "once a coach always a coach", can't get it out of the blood mentality.

So it just does not add up quite right to me to say he was mentally not in it.

I could buy physically not in it. Especially considering he died of cancer/leukemia in 2007 at age 75, and maybe 12 years earlier (at age 63) the illness was starting, unbeknownst to anyone, to have an effect on him physically to the point where he just did not have the same physical energy.

 

[zastomito]

To me it seems that all of a sudden he had a lot of time on his hands and nothing to do with it. Plus, he probably missed coaching. It happens to a lot of players and coaches. They retire for a year or two, realize that they loved what they were doing, try a comeback and mostly fail (Jordan being one of few exceptions). The love of the game is there but physically and mentally you are unable to endure the rigors of professional sport.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Week 4.

SF@STL - Despite all the talk of the Rams having their number. I'm going with SF.
Bal@Buf - Bills won't move the ball much.
Cin@Cle - I don't care who plays QB for the Browns.
Chi@Det - Bears may be ripe on the road here, but Burlson's injury hurts.
NYG@KC - If the Giants can get it together, they have a chance.
Pitt@Min - In London, I'm going with the Steelers, who are better than 0-3.
Ari@TB - Bucs changing QB's after Freeman's dismal season.
Ind@Jax - Lock of the week. Poor Jacksonville, owner talking of moving to...London? What about LA?!
Sea@Hou - This is a real tough call, and my SB pick. Went with home team.
NYJ@Ten - Titans defense for real, Locker improving.
Phi@Den - Another lock of the week has Broncos go 4-0.
Wash@Oak - Pryor aside, Skins better than 0-3 record, and Raiders.
Dal@SD - I'd say the Chargers as I don't believe in Dallas, but last week they looked very solid.
NE@Atl - This could go either way, but I like the Falcons who need it more.
Mia@NO - In the Superdome of undefeateds, Saints go to 4-0.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

May I ask if there is some sort of an NFL league pool I could join here?

I'm not entirely clear on what's going on.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No league or pool. Just a bunch of fans talking about the NFL. Some of us make weekly predictions, but mostly for fun. No real competition.

Feel free to join in the fun.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Week 4.

SF@STL - Despite all the talk of the Rams having their number. I'm going with SF.
Sea@Hou - This is a real tough call, and my SB pick. Went with home team.
Dal@SD - I'd say the Chargers as I don't believe in Dallas, but last week they looked very solid.

SF for sure, who's motivation will be off the charts after picking up 2 losses this year, and for 2 consecutive losses to the Rams. But I still won't be surprised if the Rams pull it off.

Texans will be tough test for Seattle, who will have to win this one with defense and offense doing just enough. But Seattle OL is banged up. This could be a defensive battle, as Sea/Hou stats are 1/2 in the NFL in total defense. Both teams passing defenses are also 1/2 in the NFL. Both teams can be run on. Both teams have similar offensive stats, but the nod goes to Houston.

The Dallas game interests me. I'd like to see if Dallas can keep the run game going for Romo. But Dallas may not need a run game to beat SD. The Chargers are #28 in the NFL in rushing defense, and dead last in passing defense.

Will also be interested if the Falcs can rebound hosting the Pats. Yeah, I'd pick ATL here too.

Other games do not intrigue me much, except Oakland. I have the feeling Pryor is trying to do too much himself and may be putting himself at more risk than he should by trying to get extra yards with his legs. I have not watched him much, but that is what I thought in the little I have seen of him. If that perception is right, he's bound to get hurt sooner or later.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

No league or pool. Just a bunch of fans talking about the NFL. Some of us make weekly predictions, but mostly for fun. No real competition.

Feel free to join in the fun.

Cool.

A'ight, for no reason whatsoever I'm picking these teams this week:

San Francisco
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Chicago
Kansas City
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
Indianapolis
Houston
Tennessee
Denver
Dallas
Washington
New England
New Orleans

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

@Tricycle Rider - I guess from your avatar you are a Bears fan. And Cutler must be a cat fan. So just for fun, so we don't have to jump to the cat thread:

And cats love Jay:

 

[Tricycle Rider]

@Tricycle Rider - I guess from your avatar you are a Bears fan. And Cutler must be a cat fan. So just for fun, so we don't have to jump to the cat thread:

And cats love Jay:

LOL

My av actually comes from the "Smokin' Jay Cutler" website, somebody submitted the photoshopped picture. I'm not sure how the whole Smokin' Jay thing even got started, but I think it's hilarious.

http://smokinjaycutler.tumblr.com/

 

[Amsterhammer]

I fail to understand why the entire world of football is prepared to give my appalling Skins another chance. Are the Raiders really that bad? Because I have to tell you that having watched every Skins game, 'awful' doesn't even come close to an accurate picture. They've been way worse than that. Skins fans have collectively fallen back into the gloom that had been the norm for decades before last season. Really depressing....

For tonight I've talked myself into believing that the Niners surely can't be that bad three weeks running, but I'm picking them without any real conviction. I'll append the rest in due course.

SF @ STL

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

...I have the feeling Pryor is trying to do too much himself...he's bound to get hurt sooner or later.

He already is hurt, suffering a concussion in the 4th quarter of last week's game. But I have to really give it to the kid. He was a hothead in college at OSU, came into the league saying modest things, but the word was he was still a hot head. Was average at best when played. Finally, last year had one okay game, and in the off-season really stepped up and won the starting job rightfully by learning the position and working his rear off. Now he's doing all he can to lead the team.

I actually like Jay Cutler. He's a team leader, and maybe the strongest arm in the league.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I fail to understand why the entire world of football is prepared to give my appalling Skins another chance. Are the Raiders really that bad? Because I have to tell you that having watched every Skins game, 'awful' doesn't even come close to an accurate picture. They've been way worse than that. Skins fans have collectively fallen back into the gloom that had been the norm for decades before last season. Really depressing...

SF @ STL

Everyone is being gracious when talking Skins because they are not the Raiders.
I mean, Skins last year was no mistake whereas Raiders last year sucked. Plus this season is still young, there is a lot of season left, and a lot can happen.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

He already is hurt, suffering a concussion in the 4th quarter of last week's game. But I have to really give it to the kid. He was a hothead in college at OSU, came into the league saying modest things, but the word was he was still a hot head. Was average at best when played. Finally, last year had one okay game, and in the off-season really stepped up and won the starting job rightfully by learning the position and working his rear off. Now he's doing all he can to lead the team.

I actually like Jay Cutler. He's a team leader, and maybe the strongest arm in the league.

I agree on Pryor. Never hear negatives about his character. That's good sign.

I did not like Jay when he was in Denver. Though some issues there may been as much the HC's fault as it was Jay's. But he's different now and I have grown to also like him.

SF @ St... that had to be longest last 2 minutes of the first half EVER. StL played horrible. They keep that up and I'll have to start calling them the lambs again. Rams did do some good things though that maybe they can build on.

 

[Amsterhammer]

SF @ STL – at least one correct
BAL @ BUF – looks a banker
CIN @ CLE – looks like another banker
CHI @ DET – have to go with Da Bears, Lions should have lost in D.C.
SEA @ HOU – this thriller could go either way but I’ll stick with the Hawks
IND @ JAC – after last week, no doubts
NYG @ KC – how bizarre that this is a real home banker
PIT @ MIN – the disappointing Vikings should be less bad than the even more disappointing Steelers
ARI @ TB – could also go either way, I’ll go with the visitors
NYJ @ TEN – I simply can’t back the Jets
PHI @ DEN – if this isn’t cast iron we can all quit
WAS @ OAK – alright, just once more, without any conviction, and literally only because the entire world is picking them, though it would be no surprise to me to see them throw this one away too
DAL @ SD – Sandy Eggo were unlucky last week and will probably spite me this week for picking the Cowgirls
NE @ ATL – Falcons should be too good at home given the Pats current form
MIA @ NO – I fully expect Brees to do the business

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Just some updates.
[Edited again Sunday morning, for anyone reading ]

Christian Ponder is out in Minn with a broken rib, so Matt Cassell gets the start. Both are similar QB's, so take that how you may.

Ike Taylor had an amusing press conference in London to the media there.

A half-million people apparently showed up to the pre-game festivities in London, proving what the NFL has said, the NFL is rapidly growing in popularity in Europe.

With such low crowds, and a not-so-fancy stadium, there is talk of Jacksonville moving. The logical place is Los Angeles. But that's just a bargaining chip. The owner of the Jags has been so impressed with London, and the fans there, he says he's seriously considering it. The players would hate it. I personally think they need to bring NFL Europe back.

Pryor has been cleared to play for Oakland, but will he? Maybe. Flynn took most of the reps, and the Raiders may go with him. I still pick Washington because they have a better overall team. The Raiders have serious OL needs, and give up way too many big plays on defense. However, the Redskins defense is near the bottom of the league. Only the Giants are worse.

Speaking of stats, the Seahawk defense is tops in the league in both points and yards. Giving up just 9 points a game. This number is actually skewed though, as had they put their foot to the pedal the entire game, they would have shut out the Jags, turning this number into a 6. Playing against the #2 defense, Houston, is going to be interesting, if only a 6-3 game.

As to offense, Denver and Philly are 1&2 in the league, so Sunday's game could be fun, one of those 49-38 games.

In typical Belicheck fashion, he's been very mum on whether Amondela or Gronk are going to play this week. But word is this morning both are out. But both Falcon leading receivers are hurt as well and may not play. This makes the game much harder to predict.

Josh Freeman was visibly unhappy with being demoted in TB. But let's be honest here, he had a good rookie season, and three years later has been very sub average. He doesn't make big plays, and doesn't win key games.

If I were to pick one possible upset this week it would be NYG over KC. The Chiefs are better than last year, but a few plays from being 1-2. The Giants got whipped by an underrated Panther team (we have said so on this site!). The Giants also seem more focused and not as stressed as before last week's "must win".

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Here's what I concluded after today's games.

Denver is the best team in the NFL...now. Their offense is just on fire. I'm curious to see how they play in December and January. They play @NE, @KC, Ten, SD and @Hou late in the season.

The NFC East stinks. But the Giants may stink most of all. If last week wasn't bad enough, today they were totally pulverized by KC. Even with some lucky balls bouncing their way to keep the game close at half, after that they just caved and the game was fugly. Watching the KC players do Victor Cruz salsa after touchdowns just piled it on. Eli looks lost. However, he is still something like 6th in the league in YPP, with Michael Vick 2nd. So maybe there's hope. (Tom Brady is last).

While the Giants are playing like an 0-4 team, the Steelers are not. Their defense let them down against the Vikings, but they really didn't look that bad.

On the flip side, Kansas City is playing like a 4-0 team. They looked very well rounded and confident. They moved the ball efficiently on offense behind Alex Smith, and their defense looks solid. Tied for first with Denver.

The Seattle-Houston game was very physical. Real grit by Seattle to bounce back and win. The defense completely stiffened up in the second half. They are at Indy next week, then host Tennessee. Houston goes to SF next week.

With Cleveland trading Richardson, and Hoyer playing QB, they have improved to 2-2 with a big win over Cincy, and are tied for first. They host Buffalo and Detroit the next two weeks.

Tennessee improved to 3-1 in pounding out the Jets, but Jake Locker may be hurt. Still, they look surprisingly tough, and for real. And tied for 1st with the Colts. They host the Chiefs next week.

Buffalo and EJ Manuel taking out Baltimore was something.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

LA could use an NFL team, but would they support it? They didn't support the last 2 (Rams & Raiders) from a venue standpoint. Fan support would probably be good. But I think the LA area is conservative enough that locals may not want public funds, tax monies, etc to go towards a new facility.

Moving JAX to London could happen if no other USA markets (e.g. LA) are good options. But I really, positively do not think an NFL regular season team based in London can work. Just the travel time and jet lag would be difficult. Visiting teams would have to spend the week there, and do their preps in London to prevent jet lag from affecting play on the field.

Well, teams we thought could come through did come through in the win column even if we did not pick them to do so. Like CLE > Cin, BUF > Bal, and DET > Chi.
- How about all that talk a week ago from Browns fans that the season is over? Weeden? Awww. Who needs him? Hoyer who? Actually the coaching staff likes him, and I see why. And no Trent. But it is only one game.

- Seattle win was U-G-L-Y. But it is a win. What's of note is how it was won... outside of officiating.
- JJ Watt after the game looked a little bit like Rocky Balboa with that nose. Except a p1$$ed off Rocky Balboa. Especially since Seattle was not playing anywhere near like Apollo Creed.
- Who can stop Denver? Someone with a crystal ball into Manning's mind (translation: almost no one)

edit:
- NO over MIA tonight
- wonder what Chip Kelly feels like being on the other end of a beat down?

 

[Amsterhammer]

Alpe and 3man, neither of you mentioned the Skins....

It was a very ugly game. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that there is actually at least one even poorer team than us out there, yesterday's Raiders. Kerrigan had a monster of a game, and while the defense was slightly less awful than in previous weeks, they simply can't tackle - so many first and second tackles broken for extra yardage - there really is no excuse for that at this level and increasing voices are calling for Haslett's head.

I have two questions for you guys (and Foxxy) - what is the worst record to ever win a division? I ask (obviously) because we could see that happen in the NLE this season.

Second, a Dutch football (soccer, sigh) friend asked me the following - is there anyone in the NFL now or in the past, who could be compared to Johan Cruijff, as someone who was both brilliant at playing the game, and also a deep and innovative thinker about the game? If so, who, and is there any published literature? Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[The Hitch]

That was an insane touchdown from McCluster for Kansas. Ive watched it about 20 times now and it seems better each time.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Alpe and 3man, neither of you mentioned the Skins....

It was a very ugly game. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that there is actually at least one even poorer team than us out there, yesterday's Raiders. Kerrigan had a monster of a game, and while the defense was slightly less awful than in previous weeks, they simply can't tackle - so many first and second tackles broken for extra yardage - there really is no excuse for that at this level and increasing voices are calling for Haslett's head.

I have two questions for you guys (and Foxxy) - what is the worst record to ever win a division? I ask (obviously) because we could see that happen in the NLE this season.

Second, a Dutch football (soccer, sigh) friend asked me the following - is there anyone in the NFL now or in the past, who could be compared to Johan Cruijff, as someone who was both brilliant at playing the game, and also a deep and innovative thinker about the game? If so, who, and is there any published literature? Thanks in advance for your input.

Ye of little faith (in Skins). Cuz they was playing the helpless Raiders, so a skins win was no surprise. As for the worst record to win a division.... I am not sure about all NFL history, but Seattle won NFC west in 2010 with 7-9 record, then beat Saints 41-36 in Seattle in a wildcard game... that's when Beast Mode went wild and the shaking stadium was recorded on local seismographs. I don't recall a worse division winning record.

That was an insane touchdown from McCluster for Kansas. Ive watched it about 20 times now and it seems better each time.

Dexter is a dangerous man given space. Yes, that was a great run to watch.

Props to Minnesota and Wisconsin folks... friendliest ppl you could meet.

 

[zastomito]

Second, a Dutch football (soccer, sigh) friend asked me the following - is there anyone in the NFL now or in the past, who could be compared to Johan Cruijff, as someone who was both brilliant at playing the game, and also a deep and innovative thinker about the game? If so, who, and is there any published literature? Thanks in advance for your input.

There were some players that forced opponents to adjust either on offense or defense but deep thinking, no. AF is pretty rigid system unlike football. Cruijff was great footballer but I rate Bergkamp much higher when it comes to brilliancy.